Talk:British Pakistanis/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Beloved  Freak  13:08, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * GA review (see here for criteria)


 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose): b (MoS):
 * Lead does not comply with WP:LEAD. There are many grammar issues and other prose problems. I would recommend getting someone to copyedit it.
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (references): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * Seems fairly stable
 * 1) It is stable.
 * No edit wars, etc.:
 * Non-free images that shouldn't be in this article
 * 1) It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * Pass/Fail:

I'm afraid I am failing this article as it does not meet the GA criteria at this time. I will give a more detailed review below to give you something to work with, but I would strongly recommend that after you have addressed these issues, you ask for a peer review. I'm not overly familiar with this kind of article and exactly what should be included, or what the structure should be, so it would be helpful to get other opinions on that.

Lead

 * ✅ With thanks to --Kevin Murray (talk)
 * The first thing I notice about the lead is that it's quite short. The lead should summarise the rest of the article (per WP:LEAD), and not just be a short introduction. It doesn't have to be as detailed as the reast (of course) but there is much in the article that doesn't even have a passing mention in the lead yet.
 * "Pakistanis make up a large subgroup of British Asians largely due to historical and colonial links and Pakistan still being part of the Commonwealth of Nations. " - this article makes general sense, but I'm not quite sure what it really means. They're a large proportion of British Asians because of colonial and Commonwealth ties? Don't those ties apply to other British Asian groups as well?
 * "The British Pakistani population is very diverse and differs from region to region. " - this is kind of vague. How are they divers? Aren't all people diverse?
 * "While in the West Midlands and the North of England..." - that's not grammatically correct to start the sentence that way; that would make sense if there was a comma before the "while"

History

 * "Pakistan came into existence in 1947." - I think this could be explained a little better. Pakistan existed before that to some degree, but that was the date of independence, right? And it's also not the date of the beginning of the current republic. It's generally correct, but I found the sentence a little confusing/vague. Also, I was surprised to see no link to Partition of India, unless I've missed that somewhere:✅
 * It would be nice to have a bit more on the history of the earlier Pakistani settlers to the UK. It's not only interesting, but might not be what the average reader would expect (that they were coming in the 17th century). Also, did those settlers stay? Are there modern day British Pakistanis who can trace their roots to these people? Did they spread out at all from the port cities? What was the response to them from the people already living in the UK?✅
 * Are there any numbers for how many Pakistanis fought in the world wars? "Many" is a bit vague. DId any settle in the UK afterwards?✅
 * You have "Second World War" as well as "World War II". Just use one version for consistency. "Second World War" would probably be better as (I think) that's the more common way of saying it in the UK.✅
 * "Pakistani migration to the United Kingdom increased [...] as Pakistan was a part of the Commonwealth." - is the fact that it was part of the Commonwealth the specific reason why migration increased? I'm sure they had other personal reasons (eg. to find better jobs) Being part of the Commonwealth presumably made it easier for people to migrate, but that won't have been the specific reason for people wanting to leave for a new country.✅
 * Perhaps a few more wikilinks here would help. I'm loathe to suggest overlinking, but many readers won't be familiar with Luton or Slough, and those articles may have more info on the specific histories of those towns.✅
 * "In the years to come, many from Punjab began immigrating in the 1960s" - "In the years to come" is redundant to "in the 1960s".✅
 * "medical staff from Pakistan were recruited for the newly formed National Health Service. Over 7,000 Pakistani doctors currently work for the NHS" - I'm not sure, but this seems a bit disjointed to me. Wouldn't it be more relevant to say how many doctors were recruited at the time, (and whether other staff as well as doctors were recruited). The number working for the NHS now isn't really part of the history.
 * "East African Asians" - I'm not sure if there's a better link for this (I couldn't find one), but it's not 100% clear what is meant for the term, or why they held British passports. Note that Zanzibar wasn't a country in the 1970s, were they only expelled from there, or Tanzania in general? Also, why were they expelled from these countries?✅
 * "a considerable number of Pakistanis" - this is vague; what is meant by "a considerable number"?
 * "Teachers, Doctors and Engineers " - these shouldn't have capital letters✅
 * Why did they have a predisposition to settle in London?✅
 * Mills shouldn't have a capital letter, neither should north, midlands (as you're not referring to a named county or region), ot Taxi.✅
 * "When work in the Mills began to dry up" - when exactly? And why did it dry up?✅
 * "many", "some", "large proportion" - this is all very vague. Any statistics?✅
 * "Some, however, were more resourceful..." - is this suggesting that people become unemployed because they are not resourceful? Not very neutral.✅
 * "This initiative is still seen today" - again, not very neutral, and not very clear what you're trying to say. British Pakistanis are more resourceful/have more initiative than other groups? Taxi drivers are more resourceful/have more initiative than other British Pakistanis? It sounds a little like WP:OR.✅

Population

 * "By most recent estimates" - when exactly? Don't leave readers wondering, and remember that Wikipedia articles quickly grow out of date.✅
 * In the lead it mentions that the largest Pakistani community is in Saudi, but this is not mentioned here.✅
 * Why link Luton and Slough here (which could have been linked earlier!) and not Oldham or Bradford?✅
 * " But the majority of British Pakistanis..." - not the best way to start a sentence!

Notable communities

 * "2007 estimates state that around..." - estimates by whom?✅
 * Could you spell out, and add a wikilink for NWFP? Many readers will not know what that means
 * Oldham and Rochdale are towns, not districts✅

Assimilating into British society

 * " New research shows that the population of these mostly inner city communities has been rising very fast, a sure way to avoid cross-cultural contact" - little bit of WP:OR at the end there?
 * "There are statistics..." - very vague. Statistics from where? whom? when?✅
 * "Most Kashmiri people are proud of their heritage." - this is a little vague and generalised. What is most? Are they more proud than other groups?✅
 * "a most notable example is Kashmir Crown Bakeries " -- why is that a notable example? I'm not saying don't mention it, but you don't need to say it's notable. If it is, that speaks for itself✅
 * "The owner of Kashmir Crown Bakeries, Mohammed Saleem, says..." - this sentence just seems like PR for the company✅
 * " due to the Punjabis more Liberal culture." - there is an apostrophe missing here, liberal doesn't need a capital. Also, this is vague. Liberal in what way?
 * "James Caan and Amir Khan are notable examples of successful Punjabi Pakistanis." - notable? successful? Try to keep it neutral.✅

Culture

 * "British Pakistanis come together to celebrate..." - do all British Pakistanis celebrate this holiday & come together with their community? It might be better to just remove that part of the sentence and start with "Pakistan's Independence Day is celebrated on 14 August of each year."✅
 * " Together with the Pakistan Consulate in London, and other embassies within the country its mission..." - "its mission"? What's mission? The holiday's mission? I don't think holidays have missions, do they? The rest of this sentence sounds like it has come from the Pakistan tourist board.
 * "most primarily" - don't need the "most" there✅
 * Curry Mile has a capital M, and shouldn't be linked twice in such quick succession✅
 * "Chapattis, dhal, samosas and tikkas..." - some wikilinks would be good for these✅
 * "Pakistani cuisine has had a major impact on British culture." - this is a bit vague, could you go into more detail?✅
 * Under "sport", why does it say "Further information: List of British people of Pakistani descent" - this seems a bit random. Surely not all the people on that list are sportspeople?✅
 * Instead of just listing British Pakistani sportspeople, it might be better to expand on the role of sport in Pakistani culture and what sports are played in British Pakistani communities.✅
 * "Amir Khan is possibly the most famous..." - don't speculate on who might possibly be the most famous.✅

Contemporary issues

 * Might be nice to have a little more detail on the background of these comments, and why British Pakistanis are considered to be extremists, what the public think (I'm sure there is a lot of media coverage you could draw from), and recent terror attacks linked to Pakistani groups. I realise this is a bit of a POV minefield, and there shouldn't be undue weight on negative perceptions of British Pakistanis in this article, but at the moment this section is just a bit of a passing mention, and could be expanded somewhat. Also, what responses have there been from British Pakistani communities?✅
 * "radicalized" should be "radicalised" - British English spelling✅
 * "British Pakistanis are 8 times" → British Pakistanis are eight times✅
 * "The sensitive term "Paki" is often used to describe..." - I think a bit more can be said here, like the fact that it's often used specifically as a racist slur, that it's used in ignorance to describe non-Pakistani Asians and that there's some degree of confusion among non-Asian people as to whether or not it's acceptable nowadays. I'm not saying use WP:OR, but I'm sure there must be something in WP:RS about this. Can also link to List of ethnic slurs✅

Education

 * "pupils" doesn't have a capital letter✅
 * The GCSEs section looks a bit choppy with single-sentence paragraphs. Try to consolidate these.✅
 * "18 year old's" - no apostrophe✅
 * "pupils" isn't appropriate when talking about university✅
 * "Whereas" is all one word and shouldn't start that sentence✅
 * Citations should come after punctuation, not before✅
 * Urdu... "It is mostly targeted towards young British Pakistanis" - you're talking about GCSEs and A levels, presumably they're being targeted at 16 year olds and 18 year olds? Presumably it's targeted at young British Pakistanis because they're the ones in full-time education✅

Economics

 * "British Pakistanis contribute £31 billion to the UK GDP" - that could be a bit more meaningful if you said how much that is per person, and how that compares to other groups.✅

I stopped going through the prose at this point, as I think there's a lot there to work on. In addition to peer review, I would also recommend requesting a copyedit from the Guild of Copy Editors. They're having a backlog elimination drive in July, so it should get seen to pretty quickly.

References/citations etc

 * The references section looks a bit messy. There are some bare URLs there. All should have title, author, publication date, work, publisher, retrieval date where available.✅
 * I'm not sure why some of the titles are "Check Browser Settings" and "Niet compatibele browser" - these need to be fixed.✅
 * There are some dead links: see
 * Books should be cited properly with all available info (including ISBN number) and page numbers need to be cited. "google books" shouldn't be part of the citation. The book is the source, a courtesy link can be provided to a google books scan, but the other information is required for WP:V✅
 * There seem to be quite a few comments without citations. A few examples:
 * "British Punjabis of Pakistani origin make up a third of the British Pakistani population."✅
 * "Cricket was first documented as being played in southern England."✅
 * "British Pakistanis are 8 times more likely to be victims of a racist attack than white individuals."✅
 * " Pakistanis in Britain are more disadvantaged than Indians ."
 * In addition, there are whole sections that are not cited.✅
 * Certain bits are cited to primary source; for example the section on notable societies should be cited to a secondary source that discusses notable societies, not just to the societies themselves

Images

 * File:East Is East (1999 film).jpg has no fair use rationale and in any case cannot be used in this article under fair use. Still needs a rationale for use in the film article though
 * File:Londonstani.jpg, can also not be used in this article under fair use
 * It would be nice to see a few more image. I like the ones of cuisine and sport.

So, unfortunately I've had to fail this. I actually enjoyed reading the article and found it very interesting but there are too many issues with prose, MoS and references. I haven't looked in detail at the reliability of each source, but those should be checked. As I say, I recommend a peer review and a copyedit from someone uninvolved before another GA nomination. (see also the automated peer review for suggestions.) Good luck with further development. -- Beloved Freak  13:08, 17 June 2010 (UTC)