Talk:British Rail APT-E

Merge
Should this article be merged with British_Rail_Class_370 and Advanced_Passenger_Train to provide a single point of reference to the APT programme? &mdash;Achmelvic


 * OK by me Pyrotec 15:14, 6 December 2005 (UTC)


 * No see my note on Talk: Advanced Passenger Train. Chevin 17:35, 6 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I disagree. There's a total of three paragraphs here. A merge is definitely useful. Maury Markowitz (talk) 11:37, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

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Some of the entry concerning POP Train is in error I'm afraid.

When originally built in 1970-71 it was a only a two car set, PC3 and PC4. They were REALLY skeletal as there were no external skin panels fitted at all, apart from those around the two small control cabin areas which housed the suspension, H-K brake (Hydro-kinetic) and the tilt system power packs and controls, plus the operating staff, one of whom was me! The two cars were articulated, with only three bogies between them, and originaly these were all Swinging Arm design, as used on the first run of APT-E but not subsequently, later being replaced by the E1T design.

PC3 and PC4 were ballasted to simulate the weight of the APT-E power cars, but the tilt, brakes and orginal hydraulic suspension were always fully powered, albeit via an external electical supply from a generator in an adjacent lab coach. I'm not quite sure what the reference to 'Power Pumps' means though. The main structure of the two vehicles was almost identical to the internal structure of the APT-E power cars, otherwise there would have been no point in testing them, so the term 'mock up' isn't really applicable to my mind.

POP train identified many areas of required development prior to the running of APT-E, which was its purpose in life after all, and it travelled to much further reaches of the BR system that APT-E did, reaching as far north as Carstairs on the WCML and Newcastle on the ECML, and running at speeds of up to 115 mph on the main line.

Later on POP Train was modifed by the additon of the external skinning, and used the BT-11 and BT-12 bogies that were intended for use on APT-P, the later 25kV Class 370 sets then being built. PC4 also had an APT-P type underfloor mounted tilt pack fitted, and could use either its original APT-E type tilt pack or the underfloor pack as required. Initial tests were carried out in 2 car form as before, and Lab 8 'Pilot' was only added at a later date. Lab 8 was the prototype APT-P trailer car, and made up the complete 3 car POPT Train set as mentioned.

The RDB nos carried in 3 car form were only allocated at that time, and previously the POP Train vehicles were only known by their 'PC' nos., as were the four vehicles of APT-E, which was never allocated a Class no., unique in BR I believe.

Reference APT-E itself, I feel that one fundamental test run it achieved should be given more weight. On 3-10-75, during the Midland Main Line tests mentioned, APT-E managed to run from St. Pancras to Leicester, some 99.1 miles, in 58 mins and 25 secs., an average speed of 101.6 mph, and during that run achieved a maximum speed of 136.7 mph. As this took place on a normal main line, on a normal service day, albeit under Special Notice conditions, this one run underlined the capabilities of the APT idea, and in some ways was more significant than the 152.3 mph WR run some 2 months earlier.

Regards, Kit Spackman (talk) 11:47, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Brakes?
The infobox states the brakes were hydrokinetic but weren't there also conventional air? Indeed I understaood it was the latter that gave trouble with freezing due to entrained condensation on the ATP-P Chevin (talk) 07:57, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
 * There where additional friction brakes, they where hydraulic I think. See the Advanced Passenger Train article for full description.--Kitchen Knife (talk) 17:43, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

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National Railway Museum as a possible source
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPEn1P4H3mA

©Geni (talk) 00:22, 23 April 2023 (UTC)