Talk:Brown/Archive 1

xxxx
Deleted the kind of crude racial stuff one would expect an article like this to be a magnet for, if this is the level of debate how can we improve this article? SqueakBox 23:43, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Hazel
Which color is the closest to the eye color hazel?
 * Kiwi. -- nlitement [talk]  00:22, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Habit of vandals
According to this article's history, how common has it been to vandalize this article by putting info about either the surname Brown or people with the surname Brown in this article?? Georgia guy 16:04, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
 * And the PS3 stuff VTNC 01:15, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Brown in culture
Shouldn't those items be listed on Brown (disambiguation)?... --76.105.227.156 (talk) 06:31, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Only those which can conceivably, on their own, be referred to as just plain "Brown" (as opposed to things that are known to be brown, or that include the word brown in their names). And even then, that doesn't necessarily mean they should be removed here. $$\sim$$ Lenoxus " * " 21:16, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Browns offered
The list of "browns" offered is terrible, most are not brown at all!!! (with purples, whites and such) and the colour shown in they key does not matches the ones in the article and some redirect here (like chocolate brown, so one cannot find its Hex colour and such) There's a total lack of yellowish browns, greenish browns and such!!! (Just take some paint and try yourself, those browns exsit). THIS IS THE WORST COLOUR ARTICLE IN HERE!!!! IT NEEDS URGENT HELPUndead Herle King (talk) 08:49, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Just to second this, the browns table really is embarrassingly awful. Further to Herle's objections above, I count at least nine where the colour shown is just clearly not what is usually referred to by that colour word. Come on, people, try harder! --Oolong (talk) 17:36, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Brown connotes poop
So, the infobox lists nature, earth, autumn, soil, skin, classicism, ancient philosophy, knowledge, maple leaf, chocolate, coffee, caramel and peace as "common connotations" of brown. Super. However, whenever I tell someone that my favorite color is brown, they always point out that it's the color of excrement. However much I insist that most good things in life (coffee, whiskey, wood, dirt, people, animals, whiskey) are brown, my interlocutor, be they young or old, male or female, illiterate or learned, still comes back to poop. I don't want to add original research to the article, but surely it can be noted that one of the strongest associations of the color brown is with.... feces. Caca. You know... shit. -GTBacchus(talk) 18:14, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Add a langue to inter-language list
Could someone with the authority to please add "ang:Brūn" to the list of this article in other languages? Gott wisst (talk) 02:33, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Postmodern philosophy

A popular post-structuralist use of the term "brown" (hnedo), that originated at the end of 1990's in the provincial town Trenčín, located in Western Slovakia. The term “brown” is, in this concept, broadly used (as an adjective rather than an objective) to describe the reality, emotions or quality, as a connotation of a perception of reality that lies somewhere between nihilistic and sceptical approach to one's existence.

- Post-structuralism rejects the idea of a literary text having a single purpose, a single meaning, or one singular existence, therefore the term “brown” doesn't only refer to the usual implication of the colour as the visual perceptual property corresponding in humans to the categories called red, green, blue and others signifier (signifier, or sound image) as described by the structuralist linguist Ferdinand de Saussure. The term “brown” could therefore refer also to the concept described above (signified) and its implication in language and communication could be wide as for example:

A: “Ako sa máš?” (How are you doing?) B: “Hnedo.” (I'm brown.)

- - Based on the ideas of social constructionism, where a social construction (social construct) is a concept or practice that is the construct of a particular group, the “Brown Concept” is represents the whole, new concept, of reality just as well as the term blue could also represent the human emotion of sadness.

- - The metaphorical meaning of the colour brown within this concept is wide but yet undefined; however, this concept does not refer to any racial or political connotations of the brown colour. Brown is a dark colour but is not black yet. Brown is the colour of cocoa, just as well as feces (connoting the waste or “unwanted” product), etc...

- - Another and possibly the most simple reason of the implication of brown colour within this concept could be explained by Trenčín's strong coffee scene and the argument about the colour of coffee, which is commonly disregarded as black.

- - The term "brown" within this concept was arguably first used by the famous Czech novelist and bohemian Jaroslav Hašek in his novels and short stories written in the early 20th century. The “Brown Concept” was adopted and used in several Radio drama plays in Radio Devin (Slovak Radio 3) and the terminology itself is being used by presenters of popular Prague's Radio 1.

- - The influx of immigrants that occurred after European Union's enlargement in 2004 allowed the concept to be spread also in British Isles. This concept was also explained to a musician Ian Brown, whose lyrics often describe emotions that are closely related to the “Brown Concept”, just before his life performance on the Pohoda Music Festival Pohoda in Trenčín, 2010.

Sources for orange/brown statements?
There are a couple of unsourced statements in the article about brown being identical to other shades (orange/yellow/red) except that there is a subjective aspect that makes people perceive it as brown. That may be true: can someone provide sources? It smacks a little bit of OR, or maybe it is partially true, but needs to be put into context somehow. --Noleander (talk) 08:41, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Etymology
Shouldn't this article have a section on the Etymology of the word Brown, like most of the other main colour pages (Red, Blue, Yellow)121.44.200.118 (talk) 11:18, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Shouldn't this article use the correct spelling of the word 'colour', alongside the American spelling? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.88.76.201 (talk) 12:53, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Wrong RGB value for Smokey Topaz
The brown shade 'Smokey Topaz' has the hex value #832A0D, but displays (131, 42, 134) as RGB value, this is wrong and should be (131, 42, 13) — Preceding unsigned comment added by BasinhetVeld (talk • contribs) 14:16, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Out of place picture?
"Optical grey squares orange brown.svg" and it's text "The brown and orange disks of color are objectively identical, in identical gray surrounds, in this image; their perceived color categories depend on what white they are compared to.[6]" are at the top but don't really have anything to do with the color Brown, aren't referenced at all in the article text, and are overall just kind of pointless. I'd suggest removing them but I don't have edit rights

FrozenTreats (talk) 03:08, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * It does mention brown, and explains (or at least suggests) that brown and orange can be identical, objectively, and that the name given to a color in that region depends on context, and not just on the immediate surround. Dicklyon (talk) 05:26, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Earth-Brown
Many Wikipedia articles refer to earth-brown, but that link goes nowhere. Where on Wikipedia is earth-brown? Chrisrus (talk) 02:59, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Paul Ryan?
Associating a presidential candidate with Brown-Nosing? I'm not completely sure how this relates to the topic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.110.53.163 (talk) 18:59, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

I agree, the following comment about Paul Ryan should be removed, as it's completely out of place in this article:

"Before he graduated from high school in 1989, United States 2012 Republican party vice-presidential candidate Paul Ryan, as well as being voted prom king, was voted the "Biggest brown-noser" by his classmates."

However, if it's absolutely necessary to include the information about Paul Ryan's high school classmates' opinion of him, we could at least include the correct link: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/08/11/paul-ryan-s-high-school-yearbook-pictures.html UncleVinny (talk) 07:36, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done I've removed it. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 10:03, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! UncleVinny (talk) 21:36, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Opening section
I respectfully think the opening of this article should be similar to those of the other major color articles; in simple and clear language, sourced, with some examples, and without technical jargon which an ordinary reader may not understand, such as hue code. I think this should go back to the original definition, which was clear and sourced to the Oxford English Dictionary and the Webster's New World Dictionary. SiefkinDR (talk) 16:35, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

elaborate please
Brown exists as a colour perception only in the presence of a brighter colour contrast.


 * what does that mean? - Omegatron 18:13, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)


 * I disagree. It may simply be my eyes, but brown is a brilliant color in its own right, and I can easily perceive it in the absence of all other contrasting colors. - Gilgamesh 07:11, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * I thought it had to do with the fact that brown is just dark orange. I agree that this assertion should be expanded, however. - Vague | Rant 01:43, Jan 10, 2005 (UTC)


 * Brown isn't in the spectrum! Where did it go? - Zorgoron Rajex XL5


 * It's in colour space :o)--MWAK 3 July 2005 07:15 (UTC)

If you were in a environment with an all-over low light intensity ("dark"), you would experience exactly the same colours (not coloured objects!) that you would judge to be brown in a high intensity environment, as red or orange. So: no contrast, no brown. Then how can there be a brilliant brown? Answer: "brilliant" browns have a high intensity but a low saturation. A virtual color contrast suffices. The "eye" makes a little calculation: how would a saturated orange or red look like in the same lighting conditions? If no comparison can be made however, because the only light source is the brown object itself (thus making it impossible to decide whether it's a "generally" brown object in bright light, or a red or orange object in the dark), it will be perceived as orange or red.

--MWAK 2 July 2005 09:41 (UTC)

This really ought to be elaborated on in the entry, it's a fascinating thing which few people are aware of. --Oolong 11:14, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * OK.--MWAK 11:44, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Brown is also used to describe pakistani or indian people- because of skin color. This is not well established in society, but a term that is finding growing usage. So next time you see a brown person, tell him he is brown and to have a truly brown day!

Hmm, I find the statement wrong for a couple of reasons: first of all because to use the word 'brown' to describe a non-white person you should be white yourself, and in particular a xenophobic white person. This makes the number of people using the word 'brown' negligible when compared to the number of non-whites and the rational, regular thinking white people. This, also, it's the reason why this use can't have a space on an encyclopedia even if it's increasingly common lingo in the racists minorities: looking small-minded isn't exacty good for an encyclopedic voice.79.52.120.193 (talk) 12:12, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

UPS Brown
"Pantone 0607298" is some mixed-up journalist somewhere. It's just not a valid Pantone number, it has too many digits. I do think I know where the confusion came from though, http://www.cidoc.net/000230.html ... "The colours are brown (UPS 0607298) and gold (Pantone 123). In addition, UPS makes use of 31 other colours."

Someone saw that and crossed it up to become the totally incorrect but seeminly common fabrication of Pantone 0607298, often claimed to be UPS brown. Gigs 14:34, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

"Brown is also the "most trusted color in America." (According to the United Parcel Service)." isn't that sentence just blatant advertising? 84.150.36.247 16:12, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

UPS Brown or 'Pantone 0607298' is a CMYK Brown with values C0, M60, Y72 and K98. It is reproduced with spot colour Pantone Black 4C.JakeSherlock (talk) 22:31, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

I thought brown was just all the primary colors mixed together
with paint, you get brown by mixing yellow, blue and red together not Black (Complementary colors) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.38.17.124 (talk) 20:07, 14 October 2007 (UTC) edited by 24.14.108.173 (talk) 18:46, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Problems in the lede, weird color composition
The lede currently begins:

"Brown is the color of dark wood or rich soil.[1] It is a composite color made by combining red, black and yellow."

The first claim is unfortunate through giving examples instead of a definition, and in a manner that could be misconstrued as a definition by a careless reader.

The second, which is repeated later in the article, is confusing to me. It appears to contradict the statements for the RGB model and the need for black is counter-intuitive when we consider how colors (per se) work. My best guess is that the author does not actually mean the color brown but brown paint. The distinction between the two, however, is of fundamental importance and, if so, the text needs to be corrected urgently. If not so, then please clarify. 80.226.24.6 (talk) 13:57, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

I'm glad to try to clarify. The lead follows the standard format used in the other major color articles, citing the most common examples of the colors and a definition The examples given and the composition come from the definition in the Oxford English Dictionary. The Webster's New World Dictionary of the American Language gives a similar definition: "having the color of chocolate or coffee, a combination of red, black and yellow."

I haven't seen other sources that give a very different definition. What do you find wrong with this? SiefkinDR (talk) 17:12, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Ah, now I see what you mean- since this article was written the OED has updated its definition of the composition of the color, which was made before the RGB model existed. I've updated the lead with the new definition and with the RGB composition. Sorry for my confusion; Please let me know if you think it needs further fixes.SiefkinDR (talk) 17:52, 26 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your improvements. I still disagree with starting the article with examples instead of a definition, but I will not attempt to reform the overall policy/standard format.


 * As an aside, the devil can be in the detail and I find Websters "combination" far better than the original, and OED?, choice "combining": The former gives an informal definition or description, the latter a recipe for mixing paint or ink. Notably, this recipe cannot even be defended as merely being from a subtractive color model, instead of an additative one, because a (theoretical) subtractive color model would not use black as a component (even though a computer printer dealing with practical problems might).

80.226.24.2 (talk) 80.226.24.2 (talk) 17:56, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Addition to example of colors
Babydoll888 (talk) 05:28, 18 February 2015 (UTC) I would like to add another example of the color brown. I think this would be a viable contribution. I apologize if my formatting is incorrect. Many thanks. Babydoll888 (talk) 05:28, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Possible removal from list
Several entries in List of colors: A–F contained a link to this page.

The entries are:
 * Brown
 * Brown (web)
 * Brown (traditional)
 * Earthtone
 * Flattery

An entry in List of colors: N–Z contained a link to this page.

The entry is :


 * Otter brown
 * Pastel brown
 * Peru
 * Stone Terrace

The color coordinates (Hex triplet #964B00) for one of these entries (Brown (traditional)) is discussed in the article, but not the other two.

I plan to delete the other two from the list per this discussion: Talk:List_of_colors

If that is done, there is no need to distinguish Brown from Brown (traditional).

If someone tracks down information on the other two entries and it is added, I would appreciate a ping.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  19:48, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 June 2019
In the sentence "In Turkish, the word for brown is kahve rengi; in Greek, kafé, in Slav, kafeyev."

please, remove the last part: ", in Slav, kafeyev." as it is incorrect information. The sentence may be kept as "In Turkish, the word for brown is kahve rengi; in Greek, kafé.". Skordis (talk) 05:50, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Danski454 (talk) 13:17, 28 June 2019 (UTC)