Talk:Brown Berets/Archive 1

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External links modified
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 * Added tag to http://www.eurojournals.com/EJSS_19_3_14.pdf
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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 27 August 2018 and 5 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Bennyromero99.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 16:19, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Deletion
I submitted this article for deletion, because Wikipedia requires a GPL copyright on all articles. The article had sufficient merit that I rewrote it on the temp page. The rewrite has more links, and more NPOV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.171.255.181 (talk • contribs)

'''Dear Wikipedia I am the person who submitted the Brown Beret article on Wikipedia. I am also member of the Brown Berets and the Webmaster of the Website in question. Please leave the Wikipedia article on your site. Tomas Alejo, Watsonville Brown Berets''' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.114.71.89 (talk • contribs)


 * Following this up. --Ngb?!? 14:28, 31 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Confirmation received by email. --Ngb?!? 15:19, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Non-NPOV
Glad we got the copyright issue cleared up, but this is heinously non-NPOV: "The American reality for Chicanos/as has been oppression and segregation", "Students of color were tired of being ignored by the system and its incompetence to provide solutions", "Aztlan" ...

I added an NPOV warning.

Scrutchfield

If your saying the mention of systemic racism is non-NPOV, thats just ridiculous. That's common knowledge. You have no proof as to why it would be non-NPOV so I am removing the tag for now. If you take issue bring it up here and we can discuss it.

INO Exodus (talk) 14:49, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Cleanup tags and NPOV
No one has touched this since October, so please put your comments here and I will begin to take a stab at it. Joaquin Murietta 14:46, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * The article wasn't "heinously" NPOV as someone else said, but it did contain about two half paragraphs of some questionable rhetoric. I took that out and I think it's pretty close to neutral now.  68.217.53.74 14:59, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry, my edits conflicted with yours, please take one more look. I removed the tags. and I may have removed your edits when I posted mine. Please feel free to change. Joaquin Murietta 15:02, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * A couple of my edits were lost, I re-introduced the ones I thought were important. The "Police Surveillance" section seemed a little questionable and I am not sure about the "LA 13" event.  68.217.53.74 16:49, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Hate Group Disputed
After reading the article, i would dispute your claims that the Brown Berets is a hate group. Without any proff your statement is myopic, biased, and baseless. I would suggest that the NPOV be removed.

After reading the article, I would dispute your claims that the Brown Berets are a hate group. Without any proof your statement is myopic, biased, and baseless. I would suggest that the NPOV be removed. If you read the current Brown Beret Website, this is an organization that has been awarded by the city of Watsonville, CA., for their involvement in youth activism, neighborhood beatification projects and ending gang violence. How many hate groups are involved such efforts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.233.52.146 (talk • contribs)

Hey watch this video... how is this not a hategroup? You're White and don't belong in America You are a bunch of cabezas mierdas — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.27.216.166 (talk) 22:14, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Here is a better example. Sounds like a hate group to me:

"Go back to Boston! Go back to Plymouth Rock, Pilgrims! Get out! We are the future. You are old and tired. Go on. We have beaten you. Leave like beaten rats. You old white people. It is your duty to die ... Through love of having children, we are going to take over."

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/hispanicleaders.asp — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.166.244.208 (talk) 01:51, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

About to edit big time
and remove the NPOV tags...Please sign your comments. I see a lot of anon comments here. Joaquin Murietta 05:41, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

I enjoyed the previous version by Juaquin Murieta. The person who posted the "hate group" posting has done that with every Chicano organization. It seems he is the one with hate and racism issues. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.233.52.146 (talk • contribs)


 * I removed this sentence -- Eleazar Risco, a Cuban national, known as chico the man a publisher of La Raza, which was part of the Barrio Communications Project. Please reconsider. I am not sure that listing various individuals is essential to this article, but if you disagree, please feel free to put it back in, perhaps a rewrite? Thanks c/a Joaquin Murietta 21:10, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

I removed the deragatory comments that were placed by Izehar. These claims that are placed on top of the article are without merrit or substance. Tomas —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.114.71.169 (talk • contribs)

For what it's worth, I am an Anglo who was allowed entrance to a Brown Beret cell meeting at the migrant camp located inside Camp Parks, a World War Two-era military airfield abandoned then used for various governmental purposes. Located in Pleasanton, California, not too far from Berkeley CA, the meeting was in 1971. Due to the "political correctness" that is apparent to me upon this Web site I will not go into details of what I witnessed or experienced there. Besides, I have no proof other than my word to verify the events.


 * ADDENDUM**** For history's sake; I AM getting older... I was allowed admittance to a Brown Beret cell meeting as an "honor."  From 4th grade onwards, after our family moved to a town adjacent to Pleasanton, CA, I constantly was involved in street fights with the local Chicanos. A Gringo confronting a culture whose "cult of machismo" required Chicano males to prove their worth and assaulting Gringos was also, apparently, just the "in thing" to do at the time. Ugghhh. I stood my ground however, became VERY good with my fists, and usually won as much one could win a true street fight. Luckily, it was then what later became termed the period when OGs ruled the day (Old Gangstas); when fists and feet were the primary weapons. Shootings and knife use were very rare in my area. After years of regular fighting and garnering a reputation as the Gringo to whip (well deserved, actually) I was "rewarded" by two of the local gang members (the term gang bangers wasn't used back then. "Hoods" was used at times locally). When I entered the Brown Beret cell meeting accompanied by the two teen Chicano local gang members an older male present whipped out a pistol and placed the barrel's end against my forehead while commencing arguing with my two escorts. Eeeek!!! I stood there, immobile and silent.  A couple minutes elapsed and the pistol was returned to the wielder's back pocket. He then told me I was receiving a GREAT honor and warned me under the promise of death to never speak of what I was to witness. I remained mostly mute for several decades for no particular reason. I was fearful while young and still living in that area but later, after moving on, I told a few folks about what I heard and saw but nobody really cared (yawn). In general, the violent armed take-over of the southwest USA was discussed but the most time was devoted to take-over via population movement and Chicano high birth rates. The leader/speaker and some of his minions were well-educated. They also agreed the most viable tactic was for Chicanos to enter the USA in any manner and to continue having large families and that eventually various types of "power" would be in Chicano hands. As the decades passed those guys were proven correct. After what? An hour or so the meeting broke up and my two escorts took me home. The street fights decreased somewhat but did not stop totally. Left that area mid-1972 and that era of my life ended. For historical reasons I, the Mighty Obbop, Disgruntled Old Coot, Star of neither stage nor screen. Honorable Shellback and traveler of the Realm of the Golden Dragon (whose actual name can be found by those with even a wee bit of Web expertise and patience) declares that the above is factual and well-remembered though I can not give a date the event occurred but it WAS the summer of 1971 after my freshman year at Granada High (a thoroughly groovy school with its "radical" modular class scheduling giving the student rabble maximum freedom that today's jack-booted bureaucrats would shun.68.13.191.153 22:40, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

POV tag added
This article is gone of the most egregious I've ever seen on wikipedia. From the first sentence of the introduction, the writing not only drips with activist cant (e.g.: "chicano nationalist" and "Third Wave") but is also pure propaganda. This article must be completely rewritten or deleted.

I think only one of the most outstanding examples of NPOV need be adduced:


 * [T]he Brown Berets were infiltrated by sellouts and subversives working for outside organizations including but not limited to the FBI,LAPD, CWP, ATF, and other “law enforcement” agencies and organizations

Is anything further required?

Supremacist fighting for equality?
The intro says "Hispanic Supremacist group of young Mexican Americans" which "focus on community organizing against police brutality and advocate for educational equality." This is non-nonsensical. If according to Wikipedia 'Supremacism' "is the belief that a particular race, species, ethnic group, (...) is superior to others and entitles those who identify with it to dominate, control or rule those who do not." Then, why fighting for equality?? We need either references saying they're supremacist, or references saying they fight for educational equality. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LucasW (talk • contribs) 14:54, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

PainMan (talk) 14:25, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

In the book, "The Chicano Generation: Testimonios of the Movement," by Mario T. Garcia, he includes the testimonies of three people who were involved in the Chicano Movement and Brown Berets. I think this would be a good reference to use to clarify this statement, and to use as a reference to support some of the other stories mentioned within the article. In the book, Raul Ruiz, who gave one of the testimonies for the book, says that one of the main focuses for the Brown Berets, was educational equality, because many Chicanos were not being encouraged to pursue college, and were not receiving an adequate education in their schools. The Brown Berets also wanted Chicano history to be taught through programs like Ethnic Studies, so education was a big deal to the organization. In the book, it also says that the Brown Berets saw themselves as "the real security and police for the Chicano community," because they did not receive fair treatment from the police. This does not mean they wanted complete control of the communities, they just wanted fair treatment, which they were not getting from white police, because most of the time they only encountered racism. The Brown Berets also did believe in Aztlán, and in taking back what they saw as rightfully belonging to them, which was the land that had previously belonged to Mexico, but they did not believe that this meant that they had to have control over all the land. There were times when the Brown Berets did come into conflict with the police and other people, which is why they are sometimes seen as a Supremacist group. Because they felt that Chicanos were not being treated fairly and equally, sometimes there was violence involved, but they were fighting to protect their communities, and to receive the same opportunities that white people received, but they were not trying to do this by trying to become the superior race and take control. In the book, in a testimony from Gloria Arellanes, she talks about trying to create these equal opportunities through programs like free clinics, but the police were not always willing to let them do this, which is why they tried to create their own communities. The Brown Berets did believe in reconquering the land that once belonged to them, but they did not intend to dominate the entire US, they were just focused on fighting for the equality that they deserved. 2601:1C0:C501:46AB:28A6:D567:4F5D:3B0C (talk) 02:56, 20 May 2016 (UTC)Sonia

Third Movement for Liberation??
This reads "The group was seen as part of the Third Movement for Liberation." Surely this should be the "Third World liberation movement"? I've never heard of a "Third Movement for Liberation" and cannot find any reference to it (google only turns up mirror sites to this article). If I'm wrong, please add something explaining what the "Third Movement for Liberation" is. 203.213.20.103 (talk) 23:36, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Links in Predecessors not supporting statements
I was going through the links in predecessors and it seems like they don't back up the assertions in the section. The brownberets.webs.com link doesn't look to say anything about the Annual Chicano Student Conference and it's members from 1966 or Young Citizens for Community Action. The historylink.org article is about the Washington Chicano movement with only sparse reference to the brown berets that doesn't mention anything about a church in Los Angeles's Lincoln Heights. The Fight Back! News bit does reference the group being called Young Citizens for Community Action, and everything after that in the section was uncited. What's the deal here? Where is this information coming from? AlphaNumerical1 (talk) 06:06, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Article needs significant work
For such a significant topic, this article is sadly lacking. It needs a more thorough introduction and account of the group's founding. It also needs a grammar brush-up, which I would be happy to do, except that so much of the information is unsourced that I feel that fixing the grammar would only help perpetuate sentences that may or may not be accurate. WindSandAndStars (talk) 06:06, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

MANY DO NOT KNOW THE ORIGINAL BERETS ARE THE PRESENT DAY BROWN BERETS DE AZTLAN
LEARN THE HISTORY AND TELL IT CORRECTLY — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chicano vince (talk • contribs) 16:09, 16 February 2011 (UTC)