Talk:Brown hair

Mona Lisa
I thought that the model of the Mona Lisa was under dispute? Some people even think the model was Leonardo da Vinci himself.

Hair
The boy has light brown hair, not blonde. And who cares whether something is "brunette" or not? There's light brown, dark brown, medium brown, dark blonde, etc. Actualy, Dark Blonde Dosen't Qualify as Brunnete, that would qualify as Blonde

Second Image
The teenage boy doesn't really have brown hair, it looks quite blondish. Can't we get a better representation? -24.149.193.49 (talk) 12:06, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * There's way too much subjective opinion about hair color to say so. Case in point: I personally see that teenage boy's picture as being mislabeled as "light", he looks more medium brown to me. 63.87.189.17 (talk) 14:39, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Brown or Blond
A friend of mine, who is an anthropologist, considers lighter shades of brown hair to be a blond variant. Also, many encyclopedias and dictionarys refer to "blond" as being anything light brown to pale yellow, while "brunette" is always defined as "dark brown or black". And interestingly, when counting how many blonds are in a certain region, usually light-brown(and sometimes medium brown) is counted as well. Just an interesting note.

Okay. Well, I've seen a light or pale yellowish brown considered blond by the dictionary. John Freida's Brilliant Brunette shampoo has a bottle for lighter shades of brown hair and a bottle for darker shades of brown hair and Pantene has some kind of brunette shampoo bottle that says something like for ligher shades of brown hair ( I don't remember the exact words). There's another Brunette shampoo, Suave I think that says something like for brown shades of hair.

There are LOTS of shampoos and hair products deemed specifically for brown hair. Pantene, Frieda, Suave is only the tip of the iceberg.

Some dictionaries say dark or brown hair/ or brown or black hair, which seems to me like brunette would apply to any or (at least) almost any shade of brown hair. Not all dictionaries say specifically dark brown hair/ or dark brown or black hair. I would think medium brown hair should be able to be considered brunette because some dictionaries define brunette as having dark or relatively dark hair and medium brown is a relatively dark shade of brown hair, which is relatively dark hair. There's seems to be quite a bit of controversy as to whether a light or lighter shade of brown hair is really brunette. I think there's quite a bit of evidence like what I said above to suggest that lighter shades of brown hair may really be brunette or that one can't totally dismiss the possibility that lighter shades of brown hair may be (technically) brunette because there's some evidence that seems to point towards lighter shades of brown hair being brunette.


 * I can see what you're saying, but I just don't see it to be appropriate to label someone with light-brown hair as "brunette". When I think of brunette, I think of "dark". The french meaning of "brunette" literally implies "dark hair", and I don't get the impression of "dark" when I see a person with light-brown hair. I have a Swedish friend who is tall, fair-skinned and blue-eyed who had light blond hair that darkened to light-brown. I would never refer to him as "brunette", but I would consider "dirty" or "dark blond" to be more appropriate. Also when looking in my dictionary "blond" is described as being anything "light-brown to pale yellow" and sometimes just being "light in color". Now I do agree that medium brown hair can be brunette, and while there is evidence (such as the shampoo bottle) that "light-brown" hair can sometimes be brunette, there is also a great bit of evidence to suggest that it is not, but that it is more of a "blond" variant. It also depends on what one considers to be "light-brown".

Well, I'm actually kinda ambivalent as to whether a light or lighter shade of brown hair is really brunette. I also tend to think of the word "dark" or "relatively dark" when I hear the word brunette. According to what I've read the word brunette comes from "brun" meaning brown. I've never actually seen a dictionary that considers light-brown hair to be blond, but I think there probably is a dictionary that considers light-brown hair blond, although I do have a unabridged dictionary that has the word "light brown" in part of the etymology of blond. You are right that blond is sometimes defined as "light in color" and light brown hair could possibly fit into that definition. I've only seen a light or pale yellowish brown defined as blond in the dictionary. The only way light brown hair could be considered dark or relatively dark hair is that it's darker than what is probably usually thought of as blond hair; yellowish or whitish colored hair. I don't think anyone or at least where I live would actually call a lighter shade of brown hair blond. Allwords. com's adjective definition of brunette says- Said Of Hair Colour: brown, usually dark brown. If brunette only applies to a dark shade of brown hair than why don't all dictionaries have the word "dark" in front of the word brown? How am I supposed to interpret one of Webster's definition of brunette: A person having brown or black hair and usu. a relatively dark complexion. I seem to fit into that definition because I have brown hair; a lighter shade of brown hair. It doesn't specifically say "dark brown" it just say's brown. The broadest definition one can find of a word is usually the most accurate/complete definition of a word. Having dark or brown hair; or having brown or black hair seems broader than the definition of having dark brown or black hair. Dictionaries usually reflect common usage of a word listing the thing or things a word is most associated with, even though there are other things that can be meant by a word, but aren't associated with as much. I want to know the complete definition of a word; all the possible meanings of a word, even the one's that aren't associated with the word as much, which I think is the most accurate definition of a word. I don't want to think that brunette just applies to dark-brown hair, when it applies to black hair as well. Though, brunette is more associated with dark-brown hair than black hair. Dark-brown is actually the color that brunette seems to be most associated with and I think the only color that is totally agreed upon as being brunette. I like to know the meanings of words well.


 * The point I am trying to make is that, in anthropology, light shades of brown hair are usually considered "blond(e)". I've read many books on the subject and this seems to be accurate. "Brunet" or "Brunette" in anthropology is specifically refering to DARK shades of hair. The books give examples of "blond(e)" Europeans which cleary seem to have brown hair according to "American Fashion" standards. American fashion associates "blond(e)" with (usually bright) yellow hair color only, so it's not surprising that a dictionary might just say "brown hair" as the definition of "Brunette". But from an anthropological standpoint, light brown hair is a blond(e) variant, not a brunette one.

Okay. I see your point of view. I don't really see light brown hair as being dark or relatively dark hair. I've noticed that some people consider light brown hair brunette and other's don't consider it brunette. Some people use the word brunette to simply refer to having brown hair. Do you know what the terms light brunette and dark brunette mean? I've seen them used on the internet.I've seen a few dictionaries define brunette as: A woman with brown hair. The word brunette comes from "brun" meaning brown and I think brunette can sometimes be translated into the word dark. I'm not sure where the word dark comes from in the etymology of brunette.


 * Well you're probably right about the 'modern' usage of "brunette" being "brown hair" as is sometimes defined in the dictionary. "Light Brunette" probably means a lighter shade of brown while "dark brunette" means darker brown hair. Like I said the "American Fashion" definition of "blond" isn't as broad as the anthropological definition. With that in mind, "American fashion" just defines brunette as being anyone with brown hair. However when I entered "brun" in my language translator it translated to "dark". The point is, the true word "brunette" probably means "dark hair" considering most anthropologists would not consider a person with any sort of light hair, brown or otherwise, a "brunette" (or 'brunet' for men). When an anthropologist describes a brunet person, it usually refers to people of dark complexion, including dark skin, hair, and eyes. A "blond European" would be described as having "light complexion" and I think most people with Light Brown hair have light complexion. I mean, how many people do you know that were actually born with light brown hair? Most people I know with dark brown hair were born with it, but most people I know with light brown hair were very pale blond as children. Of course if a blond person, as defined in the dictionary, is a person with "light hair", then  I think "light brown" fits within that range pretty well. =)


 * According to you, I have blond hair but I don't consider myself as a blond. I do have light complexion and blue-green eyes, but no one in my family has blond hair - they all have dark hair or very dark brown hair. But even so, I have light brown hair - actually, it's not even "brown". I just consider it "brown" because it's too dark to be blond, but it has a yellowish tone. When I was a child, I had "golden" hair. Still today, some people think I'm blond, but how can I be blond if no one in my family is? Genetically, I must have light brown hair, even though it's more yellow than brown. That's the point I'm trying to make: light brown hair is brown hair, not blond. There's no way I could have gotten "the genes" for blond hair. UPDATE: now that I've read the article, I know exactly which hair color I have: "Light golden reddish brown - A warm light brown with red tones". It's exactly my hair color - light brown hair with golden and red tones, especially in the sun.

Headline text
Ya that is just you, she has dark brown hair.

I would say that brunette is anyone who has any shade of brown hair. Black haired peole I would Blacettes or Blacnds or Blacheads or something.
 * Wouldn't "Noirette" be more appropriate? Considering "blanc" means "white"? Or are you not using French?

I think that brunette applies to any shade of brown, whether it be light or dark. When brun translates to dark, it means dark as in darker than blonde. which is considered fair hair or light hair. So the correct answer to me is brunette means all shades of brown not just dark brown.

Image
Is it just me, or does that picture have black hair? [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 23:03, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * Ah, you're right there. She's a brunette who has darkened her hair to black.  Brunette means dark-haired, and that often includes black, certainly in the original French, but a brown-haired picture would definitely be more representative.  It's just that photos of people can be hard to find on Wikipedia, what with the copyright problems.  Replace that photo if you can find a decent replacement.   &mdash; Chameleon My page/My talk 23:09, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * Well done on catching that stray 'not'.
 * But yuk, did you have to put Dole there??   &mdash; Chameleon My page/My talk 23:10, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * I've put dark-brown–haired Sharon Corr instead. A close-up of hair or at least a face would be better though, as long as it's not some yukky politician.   &mdash; Chameleon  My page/My talk 23:17, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * That is one ugly picture we have on the article now... looks photoshopped to me aswell, not natural... cant we have both the old one and this ugly sharon corr, just as we have several pictures in the red hair article? Foant 16:44, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

That picture of the young boy is not photoshopped at all, I'd say. He looks to me like a young actor/saxophonist that I know

Brunette
Does brunette apply to a light or lighter shade of brown hair? I think brunette may apply to any shade of brown(esp. dark-brown)hair, as well as black hair. I'm not sure. Brunette seems to be particularly associated with dark-brown or black hair, especially dark-brown hair. User:4.124.78.176


 * If we go back to the French word, brun(e) or brunet(te) refers to dark brown or black hair. Lighter, more chestnut-brown hair is châtain.  So, if you use it especially for darker shades, you are faithful to the original word.  I tried to illustrate the article with a girl with very dark hair.    &mdash; Chameleon Main/Talk/Images 17:24, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * Thanks! I don't really consider light brown hair brunette, but some dictionary definitions of brunet/brunette say brown or black or dark or brown hair. I don't really see how light brown hair can be considered dark or relatively dark,unless if it's compared to a blonde's hair. I have a light shade of brown hair, but I've been called a brunette. The American Heritage Dictionary for example defines a brunette as: A girl or woman with dark or brown hair. So, I'm kinda confused.


 * Confused? Sure you're not blonde then?  Haha, only kidding :)

I'm definitely sure I'm not a blond, but I have a blond complexion though.


 * By the way, your should sign your comments by typing " ~ ". &mdash; Chameleon Main/Talk/Images 18:33, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Brunette
Allwords.com defines a brunette as: A woman or girl with brown or dark hair and as an adjective: Said of Hair Colour: brown,usually dark brown. So, maybe brunette defined as having dark-brown or black hair, esp. dark-brown hair is just common usage,but it can also apply to simply brown or light brown hair, but isn't very commonly used. So, what do you think? 4.124.92.184


 * Hmmm. I see people have queries and opinions on this point.  I think I'll see if I can work this into the article.    &mdash; Chameleon Main/Talk/Images 19:29, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Well, according to Allwords.com adjective definition above brunette describes brown hair, usually dark brown hair.

Broadest definitions of brunet/brunette
brunet or brunette: n. a person having brown or black hair and usu. a relatively dark complexion

brunette: adj. having dark or brown hair

brunette: n. a girl or woman with dark or brown hair

brunette or brunet n. 1. A woman or girl with brown or dark hair.

adj.Said Of Hair Colour: brown, usually dark brown. brunet or brunette: adj. Having brown or black hair and dark eyes.

brunette: n. 1. A girl or woman with brown or black hair.

brunette: adj. 1. Having brown or black hair(used for women).

brunet or brunette: adj. having brown or black hair and usu. a relatively dark complexion

brunet or brunette: adj. of dark or relatively dark pigmentation;esp: having brown or black hair and eyes

Image of a brunette
The page used to contain an image of Sharon Corr, from her official web page. It is almost certainly not fair-use in this context, so we need a new free image to illustrate Brunette. Any takers? David Remahl 16:30, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Fixed. David Remahl 13:29, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Brunette
Does anybody else here besides me think that brunette may apply to lighter shades of brown hair, but isn't as associated with brunette as dark-brown and black hair, especially dark-brown? Any opinions on this matter? Anybody here?

No, I don't think that "brunette" applies to lighter shades of brown hair. I would never call a woman "brunette" in that case. As to myself, I am a German beyond the age of 40, and my hair has darkened from childhood/adolescence blond/dark blond colour to some shade of light (or middle?) brown, while at the same time (or even before the darkening) getting grey hair more and more (well, I know, grey hair does not exist, so let's say white hair mixed with darker shades of hair). Being blue-eyed and having a light skin (and also specific characteristics of my face (shape, proportions?) more common in Northern Europe) I would never consider being called "brunette" to be appropriate for people like myself.

Thanks alot!!!! This question has been up for a pretty long time and finally somebody has replied to it. I'm still confused. I consider my hair to be a light or lighter shade of brown, I don't think it's even a medium brown and my boyfriend call me a brunette all the time. There are dictionary definitions of brunette that say having brown or black hair/or dark or brown hair. The adjective definition of brunette on allwords.com says- Said of Hair Colour: brown, usually dark brown. I seem to fit into that definition and the other ones I mentioned above. If I'm a brunette I would only technically be a brunette, I wouldn't fit into the common usage of brunette, I might be what some call a light brunette. I've seen shampoo for brunettes that has a bottle for darker shades of brown hair and a bottle for lighter shades of brown hair. I don't know what to think. I'm pretty sure that medium brown hair could be considered brunette, because it's a relatively dark shade of brown hair and some defintions of brunette say having dark or relatively dark hair.

If you are lighter than a "medium brunette," then you are probably a "dirty blonde."


 * No, just because a person with light brown hair is not considered a "brunette" does not suddenly make them "blonde" (or dirty blonde).


 * I'd have to disagree. Anthropogically it seems light-brown hair is considered a blond variant. At least, that's what I think.

Page title
Considering that "brunette" only describes half of all people with brown hair, shouldn't the article "brunette" redirect to "brown hair" instead of the other way around? -Branddobbe 09:06, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Probably. See red hair and blond for comparison. Get someone to delete the 'brown hair' redirect, then move it. Trollderella 09:28, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Move is completed. The page still needs some fixing-up to make the new article name make sense. —Cleared as filed. 04:48, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Too much editing of the photo
Whoever keeps changing the photo needs to stop,that eurasian women picture doesn't show brown hair

she does have dark brown hair...she is a true brunette. (69.117.27.68 03:10, 11 January 2006 (UTC))

People want a example for brown hair not a half brunette in your case some asian person.

Actually there is no such thing as being a full 'hair color' race and hair color are two different thing and racial purity does not exist in this world. By now at least many people had mixture even if it was from generations ago. I am not a brunette, but I had to speak up because some people do not know these things. I mean people also call non-European anime characters ane even Eurasians animes brunets/brunettes and any other hair colors so what the different in calling a real life Eurasian and non-European the same.209.247.21.117 (talk) 15:33, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Protection
This page has been protected from editing to stop a reversion war. Please reach consensus through the dispute resolution process before attempting further changes to the article. If you would like to make changes that are not related to the dispute, you may contact me or another administrator. // Pathoschild 06:00, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand...
I don't understand why we can't put a picture of an dark brown Eurasian female. The brown haired female was longer than the other picture. We need a new picture. A brunette cleary says any female with dark brown hair...so what is exactly wrong with the Eurasian female...she has dark brown hair...she's the perfect example of an brunette... (207.156.196.242 15:12, 11 January 2006 (UTC))


 * i dont agree, the image is clearly photoshopped, thus not natural. her hair might be un-natural aswell.. Foant 20:47, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

the title says brown hair it didn't say brunette

But it mentioned brunette in the article. (Oahc 22:24, 11 January 2006 (UTC))

But who wants a image of a bleached haired person

List of Famous Brunettes
I think there should be a list of famous people or celebrities who are or have temporarily been or played as brunettes, but it should probably only include women who have really dark hair (dark-brown or black hair), since it isn't agreed upon as to whether women with light or lighter shades of brown hair really are brunettes.

Yeah add women like Sarah Silverman,Catherine Zeta Jones,Neve Campbell,Annabella Sciorra,Jennifer Love Hewitt,Fran Drescher,Lacey Chabert,Marisa Tomei,etc as examples of famous Brunettes.
 * First of all, since this article is about brown hair in both sexes, the list would have to be of famous brunettes and famous brown-haired men. Secondly, such a list would rapidly grow out of control due to the enormous numbers of famous brown-haired people. I think the article is better off without such a list. Angr (talk • contribs) 07:26, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I noticed that despite the article's purpose, the Culture section seems to focus exclusively on females or female entities with brown hair. I suppose it needs some work.Unmotivate 06:10, 13 January 2010 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Unmotivate (talk • contribs)

brunnete = woman?
i always reffered to my hair color as brunnete, hmm so the whole time i've been calling me hair; "little dark-haired girl" haha Soppy324 06:06, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Australian Jezza 08:08, 27 April 2007 (UTC)== Re: Ya that is just you, she has dark brown hair. ==

"Ya that is just you, she has dark brown hair I would say that brunette is anyone who has any shade of brown hair. Black haired peole I would Blacettes or Blacnds or Blacheads or something.

Wouldn't "Noirette" be more appropriate? Considereing "blanc" means "white"? Or are you not using French?"

Why can't people with black hair be called brunette instead of just black haired or dark haired. If you can remember, the term Blackhead is a PIMPLE or BACTERIA in the FACE or SKIN! How insulting! I wouldn't want to be called that! I think the world would be better off, if we used the term "Brunette" for Black haired people AND dark brown/light brown haired people! Or:

Black hair=Brunette Dark brown/Brown/Light Brown haired=Brownhead! or Darky! At least they're not so insulting or offensive like what you just said! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.235.200.57 (talk) 19:33, 20 March 2007 (UTC). STFU! brown hair, from deepest, almost black brown hair, to light golden brown, is Brunnette, black hair is not considered Brunnette, its just considered black hair, grow a brain and stop acting like an acehole

How is being called back haired offensive? it is obiously different from blackhead, and why is this under brown hair???

Light brown hair, brunette?
So, what is everyone's opinion on whether light or lighter shades of brown hair are really brunette? Anyone consider light or lighter shades of brown hair blond, because blond is sometimes defined as having light hair and light brown hair could possibly be considered light hair. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.124.73.164 (talk) 14:31, 8 April 2007 (UTC). .

Bronde maybe?
I first noticed this term in a celeberity magazine. It refers to hair colour that's darker than blond but lighter than what's normally considered brunette. I wonder if it'll catch on?

I for one hope it does. It sounds nicer, to me anyway, than dirty blonde or bleachy brown. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.246.37.139 (talk) 00:27, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Proper Definition
Anybody with brown hair, natural or otherwise, is a brunette or brunet to use the correct male term. Contrary to popular belief, the french word brun or brune without an adjective behind it, doesn`t mean dark. It simply means brown and there are as many shades of brown as any other colour. One does not have to have dark eyes or a dark skin tone to qualify as a true brunette. Given that line of reasoning, people with blond hair shouldn`t be considered true blonds unless they have yellow eyes and swallow skin tones. That said, I believe light brown hair could go either way. A person could add a few hi-lites and be a blonde or a few lo-lites and be brunette. It`s up to the individual. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.167.248 (talk) 15:54, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Very poor
This article is very poor in comparision with the blonde and red hair articles.

I agree. All the other articles have more scientific studies and more examples of symbolism and culture. Can someone please do the same for this article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.4.77.152 (talk) 13:00, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

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Biased
The article starts out like this: "Brown hair is the second most common hair color, with black being the most common."

Ok, that's just because Asians have black hair, and Asia has like the biggest population out of all countries in the world. I think stating it the way it's stated is inaccurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.104.140.76 (talk) 12:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Not all Asians have black hair. Some have very dark brown hair, but I don't know any studies that have counted them all so there's really no way to tell (you know, unless someone else finds a study like that). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.107.121.135 (talk) 20:46, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Only 10 percent of the Japanese got the natural brown hair. --95.134.73.56 (talk) 11:46, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

A Question
I have the deepest brown hair colour and pale skin with blue eyes, and the deffinitions i saw.. stated that brunette means brown hair dark eyes with a dark complexion. Just asking if that's true. Is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.254.23.236 (talk) 20:13, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm not an expert, but I am a brunette - or at least I think I am. I have pale skin too (very, very pale) and gray eyes, but those two things don't have anything to do with brown hair as far as I know. I'd say you're a brunette. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.107.121.135 (talk) 20:49, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

The Answer
If your hair`s brown, you`re a brunette. I don`t know where people got the idea that the root word brun means dark, but that`s simply not true. See the Proper Definition section.

Gloria Steinem
I am removing the Gloria Steinem quote because it is random and doesn't belong in an article on hair color. Also, Brunette has always generally referred to medium brown to very dark brown (not real black) hair, not ONLY medium brown. That is completely FALSE.

That quote is also VERY distracting to the article. --CreativeSoul7981 (talk) 23:26, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Photos - Please do not change
Please not change photos. Photos best represent the various hair colors and this has already been discussed. I don't think that photos of celebrities with hair dyed an unnatural color should be representative of that hair color. Aishwarya Rai does not have auburn hair. We already have good photos in place in the gallery. The man with auburn hair may have a slightly lighter auburn hair color, but it is a good choice.--CreativeSoul7981 (talk) 00:52, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Thickness of brown hair
Why does the article state that brown hair "strands are thicker than those of fair hair but not as much as those of red hair?" Is there any kind of reputable source for this?

I have extremely fine, dark brown hair and know I'm not the only one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.230.108.118 (talk) 09:18, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Celeb pix with dyed hair
Clearly both Elena Risteska and Jennifer Love Hewett have died their hair. As do most movie stars and a lot of women in general. True brown or dark brown hair typically lack red, depth and that unnatural shine that comes from chemical enhancement. These pictures should be replaced by better ones. Lorielle (talk) 18:53, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * My hair is naturally dark brown and it has red highlights.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:25, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I wrote "typically", which means there can be individual exceptions. But natural red highlights is not the same as those reds which are created by artificially toned hair. The most common type of dark brown hair is neither reddish or glossy. I think the pictures should show natural hair colours and be representative of how most hair colours in that category looks. Lorielle (talk) 07:52, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, I think you have it backwards. Most natural shades of brown hair have reddish or golden highlights. It's the matte quality of dyed hair which typically gives it away. BTW, you need to back up your statements and assertions with reliable sources.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:37, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I could ask the same from you to back up yours. I'm a trained colour consultant and I talk from that experience, though of course that is not proof. Could be that we don't mean the same thing by red highlights. But regardless who is right, the two celeb photos clearly have died hair. An article about human hair colour variations should depict natural hair colours, I'm sure we can agree on that? So, how does one find more suitable photos in the public domain? Lorielle (talk) 22:41, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree that we should not use photographs of people (celebs, plebs or otherwise) with dyed hair. Commons has plenty of free images to choose from. My hair is naturally dark brown and has red highlights as you can see in the image here taken when I was 13 years old and long before I began tinting my hair.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:16, 26 May 2011 (UTC)


 * That is not typical brown hair. That looks like the much more unusual auburn (= mix between brown and red). If those are freckles, it supports the probable presence of the gene variation that comes with red hair. Normally, any 'red highlights' in brunettes show mainly in direct sunlight. Plain brown hair typically looks like this: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Burt_Reynolds_1991_cropped.jpg Found that one in Commons (after a very frustrating clicking spree). Can we use that one in the article? Lorielle (talk) 04:39, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I have freckles across my nose and my father was Irish. His own dad had auburn hair so it's possible my natural hair colour was indeed auburn although legal documents listed it as brown. Aren't civil servants imaginative? I think the Burt Reynolds photo would look good in the article.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:14, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Cool. Then it's OK if I replace a couple of the pictures? I also see that the guy posted as example of 'auburn' is probably more of a true redhead (I've noticed that pale, thin or undistinct eyebrows is a more common feature in real redheads, whereas those with auburn brown hair tend to have the darker eyebrows and lashes of brunettes). Your personal picture would be a perfect example of natural auburn, I don't suppose you'd permit the use of it in the article? Lorielle (talk) 12:00, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't mind if you use my photo in the article. Go ahead, it's in the Public Domain. Yes, it's a good idea to change some of the photos.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 12:09, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks! Lorielle (talk) 14:45, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I've replaced some of the pictures now. Could someone possibly crop the bikini girl? I'm not sure how to do that, and her other assets sort of distract from her hair.Lorielle (talk) 18:57, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I now removed Elena Risteska. Googling around a bit, she can be found with a range of different hair colours and is probably just plain dark brown underneath. I'm also suspicious of Lymari Nadal unnaturally glossy and dark hair: for an american actress to have her natural hair colour is rather unheard of, so I've replaced her with a chinese lady who seems to have a more natural shade of very dark brown. This also makes the article less euro-centric. Lorielle (talk)

Please see the discussion on varieties of brown hair below. CreativeSoul7981 (talk) 05:37, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Varieties of brown hair
I'd like to shorten the list of varieties of brown hair. I don't think it needs to be so detailed as there are actually not that many varieties of natural brown hair, shades just vary a little with age and in different lighting. The natural golden brown in some brunette children (who, unlike true blonds, tend to have dark eyelashes and darker or brighter eyes) tends to turn into normal brown in adulthood. Golden blonde adults are extremely rare, if they exist at all. All adults with golden brown hair I have seen have been dyed. Also wondering if black is not simply the darkest variation of brown hair? There seems to be a rather seamless continuum from one to the other. Lorielle (talk) 21:04, 27 May 2011 (UTC)


 * The article lists several varieties of brown hair color, like the blonde hair color article. I along with several people have edited this article, so please don't delete the brown hair colors.


 * First, I'd like to point out that there is a difference between very dark brown and black hair. Most Caucasians do not have true black hair. For some reason, some people call any hair color darker than medium chestnut "black hair," which is just wrong.
 * I had auburn hair as a baby, and now it is a very dark brown chestnut that sometimes looks black in certain lighting, but you can tell it's dark brown - the roots just look dark, and my eyebrows are dark - like the actresses I will later mention. Black hair is usually jet black and has a blue or very dark red tint in certain light.


 * The chinese lady has black hair, not really a really dark brown (really a very dark chestnut brown) like Penelope Cruz, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Jennifer Connelly, or Demi Moore - it's just the lighting. The black hair article indicates that sometimes black hair can have some red tint to it due to the light. Also, the Macedonian girl has true light brown hair, while the photos you added for light golden brown is blond. Lymari Nadal is Puerto Rican and she has truly very dark brown hair. Her photo is very clear and she is a white Hispanic actress. The bikini photo is inappropriate and doesn't fit well with the article. I think it's okay to use the other editor's photo (with her permission of course), but I do not think we should have a collage of unknown people in the photo gallery. The other hair color pages also use celebrity photos because they are notable. I'd also like to point out that there is nothing wrong with the photo gallery having European or Indo-European people since the majority of people with true brown hair are Caucasian. You could argue that the blond and red hair articles are also eurocentric. There are some Asians (especially Japanese) with more brown than black hair, but I don't think the photo you added reflected a true dark brown.


 * I think we can use the other editor's photo for the auburn hair color - or medium chestnut. Although, I've always thought auburn hair (which many dark brunettes have as children - including myself) is a medium to dark reddish brown. We should probably change the photo of the man, or we can leave his photo and label it "light auburn". Auburn can be listed under both the brown hair and the red hair article pages. We can continue the discussion here. CreativeSoul7981 (talk) 05:16, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
 * You have my permission to use the photo. I can assure you it's my natural hair colour!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:29, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
 * CreativeSoul7981, The list of hair brown hair colours is quoted from a hair dye site! This article is about natural hair colours. I don't want to delete it, just shorten it.


 * I agree on the visual difference between black and dark brown hair. However, both are caused by eumelanin: the more eumelanin, the darker the hair looks - especially if there is little or no pheomelanin. (See these two studies for example: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8857665 + http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8857665).


 * There are also enough definitions of "brunette" that include anyone with dark hair - including black: http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definitions/brunette?cx=partner-pub-093945075 As for eurocentric, it is natural that the articles about blond and red hair are of Europeans since those are typically European colours (with the exception of some Melanesians), but when it comes to brown hair, there are numerous other ethnic groups that have brown hair as well; not every non-European has black hair. As non-Europeans make up most of the world's population, is it not appropriate that this is reflected in the selection of photos? If we merged the black and brown hair articles, it would be even more natural to include other ethnic groups.


 * Re photos: a) I agree on the inapproprateness of the biniki girl, that's why I asked help to crop it. Her hair - or some other picture like it - is much a much better representation of medium brown than the actresses with artificially toned hair. But feel free to find a better one with natural medium brown.
 * b) I see your point about sticking mainly with celebrities, but then they need to have their natural hair colour, I'm sure we can agree on that? Elena Risteska and Jennifer Love Hewitt clearly have dyed hair and Mike Michalowicz is not auburn, he is a real readhead.
 * c) The 'golden brown' haired children are not blond, as true blonds generally have blond eyebrows and lashes and almost white hair as kids. I thought the two ethnic photos I found were perfect examples of the golden brown in children that will turn to brown as they get older, but I can accept them gone if we stick with the celebrity theme. But then the Cicilian and Macedonian girls have to go as they're not celebs either (and one has her hair all but covered). Could be replaced by Kate Moss (who I believe has naturally light brown hair). However, adults with naturally golden brown hair hardly exists. William Shatner http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/William_Shatner could be one exception but I'm not 100% sure.
 * d) Naturally auburn celebs are very hard to find, especially in the public domain, but feel free to look. Melissa Gilbert is the only one I can think of and I don't think her public domain picture http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Melissa_Gilbert_at_the_1991_Emmy_Awards_cropped.jpg is as good as the one provided by Jeanne here. Lorielle (talk) 16:18, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

We dont really need a list of what looks like the loreal back cataloge in fact they have one called dark reddish brown. this kind of list is not on the blonde one its rediculous. In fact looks racist to me. it needs deleteing, the photos are fine. Delighted eyes (talk) 13:52, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
 * How is the list racist?!!! It's there to provide information to readers which is what an encyclopedia is all about. Race does not come into it unless it's racist to say that most Caucasians have brown hair, which happens to be a fact.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:20, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

I agree that there are issues with that list, mainly because it's citet sources are not really scientific - one is even a guide to colour your hair from "ladyinfo". Much, much better sources are needed on this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.107.121.135 (talk) 20:52, 26 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Why is there even a list? What is the purpose? I do not think this section is rascist, thats rediculous. But i do not see how this contributes to the article.Beefcake6412 (talk) 21:02, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
 * In the case where very dark brown hair looks like black hair, I don't see how anyone can objectively say that "[So and so] has very dark brown hair, not black hair." It's the same to many people, including scholars. Penélope Cruz (at least when her hair cannot be identified as simply dark brown), Catherine Zeta-Jones, Jennifer Connelly and Demi Moore are all described as having black hair. Hardly ever do you read about them being referred to as simply having very dark brown hair. And as Lorielle pointed out, the words "brunet" and "brunette" can include black-haired people as well, which I added to the article. Flyer22 (talk) 17:21, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I propose that Chestnut hair be merged into Brown hair. I think that the content in the Chestnut hair article can easily be explained in the context of Brown hair, and the Brown hair article is of a reasonable size in which the merging of Chestnut hair will not cause any problems as far as article size or undue weight is concerned. 70.15.11.44 (talk) 07:25, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Merging

This article is non-informative
I don't get the distinction between brown hair and black hair based on this article. It all looks black to me. This article only adds to the confusion. Btw, the definition of word can change too. It's called semantic derivation or simply "blending" of words. Bye. --95.134.73.56 (talk) 11:48, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Chestnut brown
The photo of Elena Risteska is inappropriate. Firstly, it is an unprofessional photo (left upper corner cut off). Secondly, the woman's hair was probably dyed with streaks.

Morover, the difference between medium brown and chestnut brown should be clearly visible.

--Friedolf (talk) 15:23, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

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5 percent hurdle
after the direct and non-shattered reflection in direct light doesn't reflect more than five per cent of the light, you would call it "light-brown" and not "dark-blonde". and the cosmetics industry (or whatever) could not have defined it differently. There might be a reason for it. it might be because of the fur hygiene of europides. exactly at the actual limit to "black", the europides would see dirt and parasites the best and see if the hair was healthy. exactly in that ratio the night sight sets relative to daylight. this might be kind of an objective definition and not a subjective impression. the limit to actual black in a 'scientific sense'. our cats get red fur because of infections and bacterias when they are sick. ever noticed that rough black areas cannot reflect less than 12.5 per cent of the light? and also when flat, there is always a rough component. it might be atom geometry. In all other Ethnicities, there are the same mechanism, except that the hair is only exactly twice as light. one nuance is equivalent to a multiplication or division of the brightness with the factor 1.33. Blacks, Mediterraneans and Asians have it exactly half as light normally distributed around another 'healthy' average. maybe an exaggerated fact, but it might be not just media manipulation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:C6:E742:CA00:407E:9B8E:784:12CE (talk) 06:55, 29 April 2022 (UTC)