Talk:Bruiser (bull)

Notability
Notability has been established for bull riding. Refer to this page of NSports: WP:NRODEO.


 * World Champions of both rider and bull of the PBR Finals are considered notable; it's the same level as the National Finals Rodeo, which establishes that winners are notable. World Champion title holders and Bucking Bull of the Year in the NFR is considered notable per the SNG. Thus, World Champion PBR title holders and World Champion Bucking Bulls in the PBR are also notable. NRODEO lists just some of the rodeo organizations as an example, PBR does not have to be listed there to be included.
 * Bulls are now animal athletes who earn significant money and have as many or more fans. Bulls can be worth 6 figures, with recently retired PBR bull Bushwacker making it to $1 million at the height of his career. dawnleelynn (talk) 17:33, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

Review
I've had this article in my Userspace for months. I recently moved it to mainspace yesterday. I put it into the Do You Know queue today, as you can see from the talkpage section above this one. Would you taking a look at it for me? You won't have to worry about sources as this bull has oodles of them. Just a note that the first section is the lead and doesn't need sources as it is a summary of the whole article following. Looking at it for accuracy would be great. I know you are really up to date with today's PBR bulls, and Bruiser is the greatest modern active bull. No obligation. Also, do you want some more help with that userspace draft article you have? Thanks, would be helpful if you feel like it. Any suggestions at all would be appreciated. dawnleelynn(talk) 20:03, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

All Seems Well
Hello, Dawn. I apologize it took a while to respond. I’ve read the Bruiser article and it seems great. I can imagine it took you awhile to compile all the information together. It is a hefty article for the current best bucking bull on the circuit. Everything seems accurate, so I don’t think anything needs to change. Thank you for asking for my opinion on it. Uricarrillo94 (talk) 19:30, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

You did catch a few minor things I saw. But all edits are important in my book. Yes, it is a hefty article. Mine usually work out that way at first, and then I work on making them a bit more concise. I've been told by more experienced editors (especially one who works in DYK) that articles like J.W. Harris and the bulls need to be shorter, that other articles like, for example, royalty (which are more notable) aren't that long. However, my mentor dismissed that notion citing many similar articles that are longer. For example, the most notable horse articles are quite long like Secretariat, or California Chrome both of which she worked on. Also, I note that many super notable athlete articles are very long, like in golf and football for instance. I could mention Tom Brady or Phil Mickelson for instance. At this point, we could claim that Bruiser is one of the most notable of his sport. Anyway, there was no time limit to look at Bruiser. You are welcome to look at the article at any time for review since it will be edited with new material as long Bruiser is active. Obviously, he will be the world champion this year, assuming no injuries or a foul at the finals, etc. Since I last posted, I created the article PBR Global Cup, which is a bit outside my wheelhouse, so if you want to seriously add to or modify this article, please feel free. There are lots of sources for the Cup. I do not have a lot of experience with this event nor the previous one PBR World Cup. And I will take a look at your draft article as soon as I can. dawnleelynn(talk) 20:01, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

CPRA Page
As far as the Canadian Professional Rodeo Association Page, help is definitely appreciated. It only seemed right to add it to Wikipedia. I initially added a small summary to it.Uricarrillo94 (talk) 19:37, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Quotes and comments
Why are there so many quotes and comments for every section? It makes the page very chatty ... and very long. Yoninah (talk) 22:28, 20 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Do you mean a comment like this one taken from Man o' War's article, "Man o' War developed a strong bond with his groom Frank Loftus, who taught the horse to fetch and carry his hat. Oranges were Man o' War's favorite treat." or like in California Chrome's article, "Observers commented that California Chrome appears to be a very intelligent horse, as he expresses curiosity about everything around him. His idiosyncrasies, included a fondness for one specific brand of horse cookies."


 * Bruiser has become one of the greatest bucking bulls in the sport. Per Professional Bull Riders Livestock Director, Cody Lambert, "We’ll never, ever see another Bruiser,” Lambert said. “We’re among greatness right now, and we better enjoy it and appreciate it because it won’t last long." He can be compared to the racing horse world as the same notability as any Triple Crown winner. The bull is entitled to a longer article than most other bucking bulls.


 * Check out these articles for comments, quotes, and length. I used the "Page Information" link on the article page for the length. Note that the longest article, California Chrome, isn't even a Triple Crown Winners, he only won 2 of 3 races. Bruiser seems to run in the middle for article size. Also, Bruiser has been nominated and will likely be voted in as a Vital articles and will become a Featured Article like Secretariat. I would aspire to create such an exemplary Featured Article like California Chrome, so we are obviously at very different places when it comes to creating articles. A certain amount of non-free content like quotes are allowed; I will try to reduce it in this article as it does appear perhaps a bit too many. dawnleelynn(talk) 21:34, 21 May 2018 (UTC)


 * p.s. I forgot to add that the PBR press releases and feature articles are often half or more quotes. Have you ever described a bull ride? Or how about try to paraphrase a bull ride that a bull rider told in his own words? dawnleelynn(talk) 22:11, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Another thought I had is that I do want the article to be encyclopedic but when it is a PBR bull or rider, the sources seem to be so much in the way of quotes and comments and puffery. When I wrote about Guy Allen, the professional rodeo steer roper, I didn't really have that issue when it went through DYK. I also have a new article about world champion and hall of fame professional barrel racer Mary Burger and it's in DYK now too. I think looking at that one, too, will also prove to be more encyclopedic than PBR articles. But I will admit I believe a few good quotes in the right place can say things about a subject that otherwise would be hard to say in an article, things that are true. Like the livestock director saying that he thinks a bull is the greatest one the PBR has ever seen. For example. My goal is still to cut down on comments and quotes, of course, but I don't intend to stop using them completely. But I do intend to keep submitting DYKs and working with you to make the articles better, hopefully, reach a point sometime when I can write them so that I don't have to keep copyediting them every time I submit them. I appreciate your patience. Thanks.


 * Bruiser 85,907
 * Seattle Slew 44,317
 * Seabiscuit 31563    (former featured article)
 * American Pharoah 110,664 (featured article)
 * Secretariat (horse) 111,186 (featured article)
 * Man o' War 70,708 (good article)
 * California Chrome 187,084 (featured article)

Oh I forgot to reply before you closed the discussion on the DYK template. Thank you very much for your comments. I admit you surprised me when you said that a few quotes livened up the article. LOL. Thank you for saying you appreciated my additional work on the article. I do hope that my editing will get better and I won't need to do so much pruning when it gets to DYK. Thanks for promoting the DKY. I look forward to seeing how it will do on the main page. dawnleelynn(talk) 01:10, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

Tone
This article is written in the style of an informal chat with very little encyclopedic language being used. I suggest it is seriously copyedited before it is subjected to our readers on the main in DYK... The Rambling Man (talk) 06:35, 26 May 2018 (UTC)