Talk:Buffalo, New York/Archive 1

College
college links improved. Tmesipt. 3.5.04.

Buffalo in Area?
Removed comment about no buffalo in the area, though the explanation of the name is correct. The area along the south shore of Lake Erie was maintained by the Iroquios as prairie by annual burning, and it did have American bison. There were another similar area between Seneca Lake and Cayuga Lake, which also had bison. Pollinator 01:39, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC)

What are your sources for that? --Poorpaddy 13:31, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Millard Fillmore
Millard Fillmore was not the founder of the University at Buffalo, just its first chancellor. See. Pyrop 20:36, Aug 23, 2004 (UTC)

What's the Point
..of giving every little dinky upstate new york town it's own article, can't you just merge them all into one article on upstate --172.152.1.161 13:53, 27 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but ... every census-defined place on Wikipedia has its own article. "Upstate" has a number of radically different metro areas (Albany, Rochester, Syracuse, Ithaca, Buffalo). Buffalo is the second-largest city in the state, and has several major league sports teams, and a place in pop culture (Buffalo 66, buffalo wings) ... ugh, ok, I'll stop. --Jfruh 15:49, 27 July 2005 (UTC) (I don't even live there and you're pissing me off.)

If a city with a metro of over 1 million is a "dinky town," then what is a city? Also at times, Buffalo was in the 10 ten for largest cities in the USA. It no longer holds this rank at the current moment, but it is a very important American city. Your pissing me off and I do live there. --Buffalonian1 04:20, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

The troll won

Sports Teams in Buffalo & City Hall Info.
Just an FYI I suppose.. Buffalo City Hall is 32 stories tall, not 30. 26 stories are useable office space, the Observation deck is technically on the 29th floor, the 13th floor is omitted, the dome ontop of City Hall extends an extra 2floors and is used as air intakes for the central cooling system, a quite impressive little use of mother nature.. If I do say so.. Fixed links to USS Croaker as well.. Working on other items. -- Tomplant 15:19, Aug 05, 2005 (UTC)

Revised entire sports team section for linear formatting. Expanded section with additions of Buffalo Blizzard, Destroyers, Stallions. Expanded Bills, Bisons and Braves. -- Tomplant 18:25, Aug 05, 2005 (UTC)

Re-Added information on Buffalo Bills of the All-American Footbal Conf. as it is a historical former team, having no relation to the AFL Buffalo Bills. Tomplant 02:53, Aug 06, 2005 (UTC)


 * re: the 13th floor - there actually is a floor there, not counted, called "PF", for Postal Floor, which is half or less the height of the others and very unfinished in appearance.

Queen City
I am pretty sure the information currently regarding how Buffalo got this nickname is incorrect. Buffalo was one of the first cities (if not the first) to have electricity. When lit up at night, some people on the Fort Erie side of the river said the reflection of the lit-up buildings on the lake supposedly looked like a Queen's crown. Don't take my word for it though, there are probably many different stories on how it got the name "queen city." --Buffalonian1 04:23, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Also doesn't it just make sense that it's called the Queen City because it sits 2nd to New York City on size in the state? NYC is the King, Buffalo is the Queen? Sounds a hell of a lot more reasonable than electrical lights and being in relation to a city hundreds of miles away that happens to sit on a lake too. I highly doubt we're going to find the origination of a coined term but just out of being rational Queen City sounds like it sits second to NYC to me.
 * it is called "the queen city of the lakes," the "king" being chicago. the "of the lakes" has been dropped for many years. it does not mean "queen city of new york state."

someone please verify this last statement.

One of Buffalo's nicknames is in fact 'The Queen City of the Lakes.' My sources for that include many news reports from Irv Weinstein, the lectures of Canisius College Professor (and Buffalo Historian) Dr. Walter Sharrow, and the Erie County Historical Society. --User:Baka42 18:10, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Cultural/Immigrant History
To anyboby that's knowledgable, I'd really be really interested in a section about the immigrant groups of Buffalo. I know that there is a strong German contingent - there was even an early basketball team name the Buffalo Germans, and it was a very interesting place pre-WWII - and a Polish population and an Italian/Sicilian population. --Elliskev 01:19, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Nightlife
Improved the nightlife information. Additional Minor edit (typo and links). vassyana 16 October 2005


 * Which I have reverted. I'm sorry, it was very well written, but this is an encyclopedia, not an entertainment guide. -- Mwanner | Talk 13:45, 16 October 2005 (UTC)


 * OK, I went back to Vassyana's version, and deleted the stuff I didn't think belonged there, mostly references to specific bars & clubs. Then I went to other city articles to see how they handled nightlife. Answer: they don't (check out New York City, Boston, Miami Beach, Los Angeles). Maybe we shouldn't have Nightlife sections at all? Any thoughts? -- Mwanner | Talk 14:48, 16 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the corrections and advice. Is the nightlife section any less legitimate than the food or famous persons sections? What might be the line between what should be left in or left out? I was also considering working on an architecture section, due to the presence of an Olmstead designed park system, Wright's works throughout the area and places like the old Central Terminal. Anyone have any advice on how to best approach this without delving too deeply into promoting specific places? Thanks! Vassyana 16 October 2005

Tuffalo
I'd love to know where "Tuffalo" came from. I lived in Buffalo for 25 years and never once heard anyone say this. Is this recent? It sounds a little lame and/or made up to me. Aeonite 04:16, 24 October 2005 (PT)


 * Agree I've never heard the term 'Tuffalo' --T-rex 18:06, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Agreed, I too have never heard Tuffalo mentioned before.

Third - 29 years in the B-lo and I have never heard of Tuffalo before. I think that this should be removed

It's a typo!

is it?

No, it's not. It's a common enough nickname among the hardcore and punk communities, or at least it was when I lived in Rochester a few years ago, or as it was sometimes called Rotchester.

GOOGLED!


 * 419 hits is hardly convincing. ~MDD4696 21:32, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm calling bullshit on that one. I know buffalonian punk afficionados, and I've never heard 'tuffalo' from any of them.

Rampant Apologism and Silliness
I'm removing this page from my watchlist and will no longer bother editing it, though I am an ex-Buffalo resident of 25 years. It has become clear that people are merely going to continue adding nonsense to the page, including an ever growing list of "famous people" out of some misguided attempt to make Buffalo seem somehow more appealing or special in the eyes of others. This is nothing but apologism: "It's Buffalo, sure, but look at everyone who came from here; it can't be all bad." Then there's the Nightlife section, with recent entries on places for underaged college students to drink. Gah. Anyway, I'm done. Good luck and all. Unless this page is protected or random non-registered people stop editing and re-editing and re-re-re-editing the page to add their favorite movie stars and bars to the page, it'll be pointless. Heck, not even the San Francisco page (the city I live in now) has such a monstrous list of famous people. I had hopes, but no more. So foo and such. Aeonite 08:12, 29 October 2005 (PT)

Buffalo Neighborhood Map
I uploaded an official Buffalo city map with the various neighborhoods blocked out, but I cannot identify all the neighborhoods. They are labelled with letters, and some are obvious, others not. Can anyone help identify these neighborhhoods? The neighborhoods in the list below are taken reading roughly left to right from the top down. The uploaded version is really large, so if you need to, you can look at it in some more detail by clicking on the map, then clicking on "download high resolution version".

I'd like to eventually come up with a neighborhood map from this info that could be put into the Buffalo page. Thanks. PAR 16:15, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
 * A	Allentown
 * BL	Bailey-Lovejoy
 * BR	Black Rock
 * CP	Central Park
 * C	Cold Springs
 * DD	Delaware District
 * D	Downtown
 * ES	East Side
 * E	Elmwood Strip
 * FL	Fillmore-Leroy
 * FW	First Ward (the easternmost 1/3 is The Valley)
 * FB	Fruit Belt
 * H	Hamlin Park
 * HH	Hospital Hill
 * HP	Humboldt Park
 * K	Kaisertown
 * KE	Kensington
 * KH	Kensington Heights
 * LWS	Lower West Side
 * M	Masten Park
 * NB	North Buffalo
 * NP	North Park
 * P	Parkside
 * PO	Polonia
 * R	Riverside
 * S	Schiller Park
 * SB	South Buffalo
 * UD	University District
 * UH	University Heights
 * V 	Vernon Triangle
 * WS	West Side
 * W	Willert Park

Filled in alphabetically with info from http://ublib.buffalo.edu/libraries/asl/maps/buf/mapkey.html

Aeonite 09:38, 29 October 2005 (PT)

re Notable people from Buffalo
Anyone up to taking a whack at the list, which is bursting with questionable additions. I don[t know music or the city too well, but some of these gotta be decidedly unencyclopediaworthy. Sfahey 22:48, 13 September 2005 (UTC) In some cases, the link goes to an entry that does not indicate what is the individual's tie to Buffalo. Also, wouldn't it make sense to alphabetize the list? Perhaps the list should have its own page, so that it doesn't hijack main Buffalo entry.

The entire concept of a "Notable people from Buffalo" list seems apologetic to some degree anyway. San Francisco's entry, for example, doesn't have one (at least that I recall); why does Buffalo need to defend itself as an entity by boasting of who once lived there? Even if it stays, I don't think it warrants a completely separate entry. If anything, I'd support whittling it down to the top ten people. Anyone less known than the Goos probably shouldn't be on there, myself included. Aeonite 15:51, 20 September 2005 (PT)
 * I vote yes. If the votes become 3-0, I'll gladly whittle it down. Sfahey 23:09, 20 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I vote yes as well. Maybe instead of just losing the data, we should create a seperate page that can be linked to from the main artical. That way we can have the real important people on the main page and still have the huge list of others too.--T.C. 11:03, 21 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I vote yes. 10 people tops. PAR 17:37, 21 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Aeonite's correct in that including names which might "glorify" a small town only trivialize a major city, and in his honor I left the "Goos", while removing about half the others. It now reads "famous" Buffalonians. I have no objections if someone wants to remove some of the remaining musical famosities.Sfahey 22:37, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Is there any reference someone can point to for Gary Sinise's relation to Buffalo? I can't find any indication that he ever lived there, let alone having been born there, etc.

It would seem that people are just going to keep adding non-noteworthy people and the list will grow again. I am now in favor of removing the list and either incorporating the famous names throughout the page in appropriate areas, or converting the list to paragraph form (like what now follows the list). There could easily be just a a few paragraphs: one for politics, one for music, one for actors/actresses, one for sports, maybe one for miscellany. I think if this is in paragraphs, either all together or through the page, it'll stop people adding non-noteworthy people and it'll make the entire thing look less like a small city trying to stand on stilts. --Aeonite 8:02, September 2005 (PT)


 * Good idea. PAR 15:10, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
 * This idea backfired, as the section is already sloppy and rambling, has an inappropriate heading, and was better as a (frequently edited) list.Sfahey 21:03, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

The fact is Buffalo produced some major players in art and writing, and I added a few into the list. And I was shocked no one mentioned Warren Spahn, the great pitcher, who grew up in South Buffalo.

There are some very good references but some of them are so thin as to be ridiculous. How should be refine the list? Should the list even belong? Should we perhaps base the list on their importance to Buffalo and Western New York instead of on their roots? Thoughts. Vassyana 16 October 2005
 * Hmmm. I would think if they were important to Buffalo they would be in the text already. Hence the list. Sfahey 03:56, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

20th century race stuff
So I've removed the following as the reasoning seems specious and racist:
 * A second reason for decline came in 1976 as the U.S. government declared that the public school system had to be desegregated. This meant that the thriving neighborhood schools had to be dismantled and children from far and wide around the city had to be bused to different schools around Buffalo so racial demographics could be equalized. Many of Buffalo's families then moved out into the suburbs seeking public education in districts with less diversity.

&mdash; Xoder|✆ 01:31, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Buffalo and the Civil War
I've removed the section currently called "Buffalo's Military Veterans," as well as a couple of links to Confederate organizations and message boards. This material keeps getting inserted, at various random places in the article, by anon user 129.54.8.46, who is likely Steve Teeft who runs those linked websites. Besides being misplaced, unwikified, and poorly written (all of which could be fixed) the material is irrelevant to the article. The two factual points it makes (Buffalo was a terminus of the Underground Railroad, and was the situs of some battle activity in the War of 1812) already appear earlier in the article; and the remainder of the section is mini-biographies of several completely non-notable Civil War veterans who had some ties to the Buffalo area. Maybe this material could be put in a separate article but it doesn't belong in this one. -EDM 19:34, 2 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Someone keeps trying to add back in links regarding this topic, make sure that they are deleted --T-rex 19:40, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

My changes
I added a new heading called "decline", since the majority of that section was seperate and really had no relationship to being under "20th century". I also moved the info about the mayor from this section and put it at the top of the page. I really don't think that we need the list of the mayors of buffalo but I kept it there anyway, maybe someone can make it into a category or can find a way to make it look better or even find a better place in the article for it. Let me know what you think. By the way, I also agree with User:Aeonite about tris article almost being like an advertisement for Buffalo. The Goos can be mentioned but I really think that more information should be focused on the city itself. Flyerhell 10:09, 16 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Is Brown actually the mayor yet? Most US cities, the person elected doesn't come into office until several weeks after election, usually on the 1st of the year. I'm not going to change it because I'm not sure, but on Wikipedia we don't change the name of the office holder until s/he actually is inaugurated. --Jfruh 15:37, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

If that is true than you can change it. I no longer live in Buffalo so I am not really sure what is going on there. I was mislead from whoever posted that Brown became the first African-American mayor in the history of Buffalo. I already assumed he was in office but someone just forgot to change it. My apologies Flyerhell 21:03, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Climate and air conditioning
I removed the section on the invention of air conditioning from the climate section because it disagreed with what was written in both Air conditioning and Willis Haviland Carrier (the inventor). Varco 19:13, 17 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Actually the Willis Haviland Carrier artical supports the fact that Air Conditining was invented in Buffalo. I think that this should be changed back. --T-rex 17:32, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Upon rereading it, I realize that I did indeed make a mistake. I'd revert it, but in my opinion that part should be moved somewhere else. The previous revision had all of this air conditioner information in the "climate" section. But the section is mainly about air conditioners, more than it is about the climate. --Varco 05:47, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

City of Lights?
Something should be mentioned about Buffalo being one of the first cities to fully utilize electricity because of the close proximity of Niagara Falls. Flyerhell 22:29, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Done. Good idea. This story is nicely told in "City of Light," an historical novel from a while back. Let's see how long this article maintains its current pretty good status. Sfahey 18:02, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

War on red links
I went ahead and turned most of the red links into simple external links to appropriate web sites, since case it takes a while to get the pages made. I also unlinkified Rich Sr.'s name and put an appropriate link on the corporate page. I linked to the WGRZ's architectural tour, which covers the rest of the holes. -- Pinktulip 12:08, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

St. Joseph Day
"laid out for the poor" by "households"? Is it more realistic to say "churches"? -- Pinktulip 12:01, 30 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Households is more realistic and correct. Most St. Joseph's tables are in private homes and "the poor" are indeed welcome at many. It's a Sicilian tradition of hospitality, generosity, charity and gratitude. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.160.7.177 (talk • contribs) 05:52, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Social Problems
I've removed the following unsourced section from the article. It does not seem very NPOV to me, and I would dispute some of the claims made in it. If people can provide references, feel free to re-add it. ~MDD4696 16:22, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

 Social Problems Buffalo has been in steady economic decline for the last few decades. As the city decreased in value and the tax base shrank, the inner-city began to deteriorate. Many southern blacks migrating north, along with other minorities, arrived at the city in poverty. They found affordable but aged and decaying housing stock at costs more affordable to them, initiating the urban phenomena "white flight". Many parts of the city, especially on the East and West sides, have been affected by violent crime waves and drug epidemics that periodically surge through the city. The extremely high number of vacant lots along with burned and boarded-up buildings[] in some of these areas give many parts of the city a forbidding look. As a result, business has been driven out, and criminals drawn in. The spread-thin and allegedly incompetent Buffalo police department has had insufficient presence in the slums, as violent crime continues. The lack of public awareness about the situation in the ghettos of Buffalo has made many residents feel like they have been forgotten by their government. To counter this, many have come together to form block clubs, in hopes that widespread drug-dealing, arson, homicide, and gang violence will decrease.

Origin of Name
I've been studying the origin of the name of Buffalo for some time and have read most of the existing references. I'm restoring my text which is quite a bit more accurate than what it was replaced with. Since when is the Buffalo River a tributary of the Niagara River?


 * Always --T-rex 16:26, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Government and Politics
I have added a POV-section note to this section, because it reads like a Republican Party analysis of the city's affairs. It is clear from the text of the section that a significant number of Buffalo's voters disagree.

The section should be written to fairly report the range of views. --BrownHairedGirl 18:36, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

It is a fair assesment, though. The Democratic Party has dominated Buffalo politics over the last 50 or so years, and the Unions (especially the Civil Service Unions) have been preventing any progressive changes in the local economy. User:Baka42 18:01, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

No matter what ones view of Buffalo politics may be, this section is not objective enough to be included in the only wiki article about the city's government, which I'm sure is more structured than what is presented here. It sounds clearly like it comes from the perspective of some spiteful Republican, if not slightly racist (i.e., "Ultimately, voters rejected Helfer's reform agenda and chose Byron Brown as the city's first African-American mayor..." as if Brown had only 'color' on his side and not ideas.). This is one of the reasons wiki is having such troubles--opinionated and unnecessary articles like this. It should be omitted from this site immediately for quality purposes. --Anon

The size of and layers of local government in Upstate New York are relevant to any discussion of politics in the City of Buffalo. The residents and businesses of New York State consistently rank as the highest taxed in the United States, usually second only to California. To ignore large government, the politicians who preserve it and the taxation require to finance it is to ignore one of the most important factors in Buffalo-Niagara's decline. --User:Kavanagh 18:05, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't think anyone is saying we should ignore a relatively high tax rate or the historical influence of unions, but there is obviously another side to this story that doesn't appear in this section of the article. It seems like everyone who is arguing against the POV note is missing this point. The solution is not to take out things but to add things. -- newbie

Division of topics?
Perhaps it might be time to split some parts of this article into others, such as "History of Buffalo, New York", other examples being culture, perhaps sport, as are done with other city articles. Thoughts? --User:Tomplant 23:23, 08 May 2006 (UTC)

Weather
The comments in the weather section are an attempt at gilding at best, and blatant revisionism at worst. Buffalo's summers are hardly pleasant and temperate and breezy. Anyone who's lived there knows that July and August are dreadfully muggy unless you're right on the lake, which is why the area has so many air conditioners and backyard pools despite it having a rep as a snowy city. So the weather area could use some tweaks.

I don't know about that. I lived there for 24 years, and I'd never use 'dreadfully muggy' to describe the summers. Especially not after living in Northern Virginia.--User:Baka42 18:04, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

potential revisions
this article needs the following revisions: - information on the historic buffalo-olmstead parks system, which is probably the most encyclopedically relevant historical information besides the importance of buffalo to the war of 1812 and its position at the end of the erie canal - a more detailed record of immigrant settlement in the area - descriptions of the most famous architecture (including the psychiatric hospial on forest ave.) - a more neutral perspective of the city's nightlife - edits to the "famous residents" section to include only the most noteworthy few - some sort of connection to other rust-belt cities

The main article is clearly false in its presentation of Buffalo as place of great "diversity" which is way over-emphasized.Anybody who lives here knows differently-look at the demographs of the city and suburbs like East Aurora.Buffalo is split between Caucasian and African-American. There is no Latino community or Asian community from what I have seen-no restaurants of the said cuisine or food stores. --

No offense intended, but do you actually live in the city or do you live in the suburbs? The suburbanites of the area tend to think that there are no Latinos. Have you ever been to the lower-west side? Niagara Street and the surrounding are is seemingly all Latino. Also, while I agree that there is no 'China-Town' area there is a significant Asian population at UB. As for the restaurants that you have never heard of: 'Locally-owned restaurants offer Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Thai, Mexican, Italian, Greek, Arab, Indian, Caribbean, French, and "soul" food.' Off the top of my head: Chinese : Too many to mention Japanesse : Kuni's (closed recently) Elmwood Ave. Tsunami - Kennmore Ave. Vietnamese: Saigon Cafe - Elmwood Ave. Thai:  Taste of Thai - Hertel Ave. Mexican: Grandma Mora's - Hertel Ave. Italian: Too many to mention Greek: Towne - Elmwood Ave.,  Mythos - Elmwood Ave., Panos - Elmwood Ave. Arab:  Sahara Grill - Elmwood Ave. Indian: India Gate - Elmwood Ave. Caribbean: Palm tree - Allen, Rendezvous - Niagara St. French: Rue Franklin - Franklin St. Soul Food: (Don't know any off the op of my head, but have had some from somewhere local at Taste of Buffalo) I agree that this area is not super diverse like a Toronto, but we are not hat bad either.

T.C. 15:48, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Economy too
I agree, I moved the list of famous people into a separate article a few weeks ago because I thought that it was not really worth the space in the main article. I have been trying to do this slowly as not to make too many people mad at once.

One other thing that this article desperately needs is an expanded section on the economy of Buffalo. Really I know that our economy is not the best, but it is currently a VERY short section and I think that we can do better...

T.C. 11:57, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Tommy: The Government section correlates Buffalo-Niagara's high taxation with the flight of employers and the resulting economic decline.

User:Kavanagh 12:58PM, 22 April 2006 (EST)

More potential revisions
As of summer 2006, a group of Buffalo City Hall interns will be making massive revisions to this entry. It's abysmal. Many of the points addressed here will be dealt with.

Additions include but aren't limited to:

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.44.133.66 (talk • contribs) 20:07, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) A “Cityscape” section highlighting the city’s neighborhoods and suburbs, parks, waterfront, standard of living.
 * 2) Reorganization of the “Education” section to underline the specifics of all facets of education- public, private, and higher.
 * 3) An expansion of the “Business, Commerce, and Industry” section.  Buffalo’s economy is no where near as dreary as what’s being described currently.  Additions should highlight growing medical research and recent downtown development.
 * 4) Substituiton of “Buildings and Architecture” for the “Architecture” portion under the “Culture” section.
 * 5) Movement of “Diversity” segment under “Culture” to the “Demographics” section.
 * 6) Expansion of the “Art” segment under “Culture” to include music and theatre.
 * 7) Possible “Festivals” edition to “Culture” section.


 * Hello. I think it's great that there's a group of people who are going to collaborate on improvements to this article. However, I'm worried about their level of experience with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and the wiki markup itself.


 * I am wondering if you could provide the IP addresses that these interns will be editing under, to make it easier for others to verify that these edits are not vandalism. Sometimes it can be difficult to tell. You can find out what your IP address is by simply visiting http://www.whatismyip.com. Providing such a list on the talk page would be very useful for other editors.


 * Secondly, I would like to offer my services as an experienced Wikipedia editor and administrator. If you guys have any questions about markup or policy, just leave a note on my talk page and I'll respond as soon as possible.


 * Thanks! ~MDD4696 22:12, 15 June 2006 (UTC)


 * So will these interns be paid by the city? Does it make sense for the city to be paying people, interns or not, to edit Wikipedia?  This really seems silly and a waste of very precious money...
 * T.C. 12:06, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

The IP is the one listed (129.44.133.66). Unfortunatley we are not being paid for our hours of tedious research. Thanks. 12:58 16 June 2006 EST


 * I would suggest creating an account for each of you. There is a group of very determined anon friends that continually adds "B-Snack" as a nickname for Buffalo, and I am considering semiprotecting the article for a while, which would block you from editing the article. ~MDD4696 17:09, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

We've just created an account. Thanks. User:Cityhall 2:05, 16 June 2006

Mass Additions and Upgrades
I'm in the process to updating the education, demographics, and climate sections. I'm also adding a cityscape and a standard of living section.

User:Cityhall 2:23 5 July 2006


 * Why'd you post all of that here? If you'd like to make a temporary version of the page while you work on it, consider creating a user subpage. ~MDD4696 21:22, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Not quite sure about the licensing of the graphic in climate. I've emailed the website about it.

User:Cityhall 2:42 5 July 2006

ethnicity of neighborhoods incorrect
The article seems to imply that the area surrounding the broadway market is a Polish neigborhood. While the neighborhood has strong Polish roots as evidenced by the street names, it is now a predominateley African-American community, and we should not be ashamed to say it. The "North Side" is not a neigborhood ever heard of by Buffalonians. Buffalonians say "North Buffalo". North Buffalo is heavily Italian-American, not African-American as the article seems to state. I will try to make some small changes. Trust me on this I come from Buffalo. Roc 03:51, 12 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Um actualy the North-Side is not that hevily Italian-Amarican when compared with the West side. It is true that that there are not as meany Afraican-Amaricans. The reason why you might think that it is so packed with Italian-Amaricans is because it hosts the Italian festivil.--Bonojohn 19:03, 13 July 2006 (UTC)--

You may not have noticed but Buffalo's demographics have changed a lot since the 1960's, where your sources appear to date from. As a West Side resident I will tell you that Italian influence WAS dominant in parts of the west side 30 and 40 years ago. Today it is a highly mixed area and a white populatin remains, but the largest ethnic group is Hispanic, followed by African. I remember reading at some point that North Buffalo is 42% Italian, but I can't verify. My point is, Italian Prescence is strongest in North Buffalo, take it from someone that lives in the city. Roc 02:56, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Umm yeah Roc not only do I live in the city, I live in NB. I have lived her my hole life and AM Italiano. The fact is that most Italians in the city live in WB. No lies, I have gone to school in WB and have hung around in WB for me to know that. So sir Roc or whatever you go by dont ASSUME anything, get your facts straight! --Bonojohn 20:38, 21 July 2006 (UTC)--


 * North Buffalo was still pretty heavily Italian when I lived there in the 1990s (Sterling Ave, off Hertel). It used to be a Jewish area, but that's far in the past; most of the old synagogues have been bought by churches (black churches, and that demographic was growing, but I don't think that the Italian population was shrinking).  To the best of my knowledge, that's why they have the Italian festival there.  I didn't spend long in the neighborhood on my most recent visit, so maybe the demographics have changed radically since '96.  Looked like all the good little sub shops and pizzerias were all still there, though. Miss w 08:12, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Bonojohn, first of all, we call it 'The West Side.' I've never heard anyone native to the Greater Buffalo area call it 'WB' or 'West Buffalo.' Second, yeah...North Buffalo is the 'new' Italian neighbourhood. The West Side is largely Hispanic now. Go take a look at the census records. --Baka42 14:50, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Dude your so fucking stupid. I abrevated the west side and north side, WB and NB just so it would be easier to right. So don't debate me on the way I type for that means nothing in this situation. The records do not reflect your oppinion. --Johnny-Who? 02:54, 26 July 2006 (UTC)--

Thanks for shutting that poser down, Baka. "Bono" is probably from Blasdell. Hispanic culture is strongest in the West Side, has been for more than 15 years. Like Baka said, we say "West Side". If you wanted to abbreviate you would have typed "WS", as it doesn't occur to any Buffalonian to refer to the West Side as "West Buffalo". This kid's profane outburts make clear that he can't be past age 14. Roc 06:54, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Nizzoc, you need to learn that BonoJohn, aka ME did not shut up, I had the last word. Although that is not what is at issue. Whats at issue is facts not where I live; even though I said once before and will say it agian I was born there and have lived there my hole life, Buffalo is me. Nizzoc calling me profane means you dont know the definition of profane, or at least have a very conservitive mind. I am not 14 Im 19 if I was 14 that would be sad considering I know more than you and you would be arguing with a 14 year old. So please before you speak learn to get your facts striaght. --Johnny-Who? 17:58, 7 September 2006 (UTC)-- OK, please read this snippit of the article that you are arguing over ...and at one point Italian-Americans in the West Side. Now the West Side has become a melting pot of many ethnicities, with Italian and Latino culture being the strongest influence.

You tell me to get my facts straight? You claim you "know more" than me? You apparently don't even know how to spell, and you constantly use run-on sentences. "My hole life"??? My facts ARE straight, check the US census. Childishly using curse words like you have done illustrates to me that you must not be more than 13 years old. I can only guess that you might be an Italian-American from a suburb such as Tonawanda, wishing that you had some kind of connection to the inner city. You therefore claim that your "ethnicity" is dominant in areas where it is not. Sorry kid, you might have had a case 30 years ago. Italian culture is no longer the west side's strongest influence. Oh sorry I should say "WB" right?

Roc 04:27, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

I live in the north side of buffalo. The area that you are correcting. I used ABREVIATIONS as to make it faster to write. I love how you take little insignificant details into account when making up accuzations. I dont need to repeat my facts. I do appologize for using profanity, but thats the only thing I am sry for. Aside from that theres nothing for me to be sry for. So please go back to where ever it is that you come from. -Johnny-Who? 05:13, 15 September 2006 (UTC)-

Are you blind?? I'm editing the passage about the WEST SIDE. The place I live. Don't play these games son. Stop inserting your wistful opinions into this article. BY THE WAY. Noone from Buffalo EVER says "North Side" so I have now verified that you are not from Buffalo at all. Stop vandalizing the article Roc 19:55, 19 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Vandalizm? riiight, its not vandalism. I think you should stop thinking of lame excuses to make me SOUND like im not from buffalo. There is no need to prove to you that I am from buffalo. I know I am and thats all that matters. So leave it alone. North Side, West Side, East Side, South Side... I said it muuha ah ha ha ha!! If no one else said it from buffalo then ohh well I said it...! leave it alone. -Johnny-Who? 00:42, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

The guys right people from Buffalo do call it North Buffalo. Nizorc you should calm down, your turning this into a big bru-ha-ha when its not that big of a deal. It is true the west side is predominantly Hispanic and Italian. --User:Unregisterd Guest--


 * That was certainly my memory. I've asked in a Buffalo comm and asked some other people--hey, benefit of the doubt and all that; I've been away and maybe the fashion has changed--but so far, no one has ever heard of "north side" as a term for that neighborhood (and most seem to think of it as a "give" that you're not local). I think we can reasonably say that the neighborhood is called "North Buffalo."  If we want a cite, a map on city's website (http://www.ci.buffalo.ny.us/files/1_2_1/GoodNeighbors/NorthBuffaloPlan.pdf, page 4) that clearly identifies it by that name.  I'm not sure why I bothered to check something that obvious.  But that's the answer. Miss w 11:12, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Really I didnt mean for people to be pissed. this has gotten way out of hand... Johnny-Who? 03:15, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Then from the Diversity section:

The West Side is home to the city's Hispanic community & North Buffalo is home to Buffalo's Italian American communities.

First, I think that we should be at least consistant here about what we are trying to right. This needs to make sense. Second, none of this information is referenced to any type of official documentation (IE Census records), so therefore it is all opinion vs. opinion. At the end of the day who gives a shit if there are a few Italians living on the West Side? Does it really matter? Not that my opinion matters anymore then the rest, but if you are defining West Side as Richmond to Niagara, from Black Rock south to Downtown (Yeah I know that this is actually the LWS too), I have never net anyone that was Italian. All I have ever met is people of Latino Decent and all I see is a shitty neighborhood that has been infested with drugs and violence. T.C. 00:44, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually it's Richmond to the RIVER, and black rock to downtown. Many different cultures are in the West Side, that was never a question. The largest ethnic group is Hispanic, followed by African-American.

Roc 04:33, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Ethnic Restaurants
A few soul food places off the top of the head:


 * Everything's Special - S. Elmwood Avenue
 * Ashanti's - Fillmore Avenue
 * Soul Food Cafe(closed)- Fillmore Avenue

There are too many hole-in-the-wall soul food places in Buffalo to count. By the way that guy who said there's no Latino community in Buffalo must not have ever stepped into the city limits. There is a very strong and vibrant Latino community on the West Side as T.C. pointed out. It's not limited to the Lower West Side either. Hispanic influence is strong all up Grant street and even Black rock is becoming more and more Latino by the day. I live in the west side trust me on this

Roc 04:00, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

50 populis citys of the United States of Amarica
Why do we have that on the buffalo page? We do not rank in the catagory. Maby if this was 1901 we would be why? --Johnny-Who? &#123;&#123;smiley&#124;10}} 16:07, 24 July 2006 (UTC)--

If there is a table for the top 50 metropolitan areas we should put that in because Buffalo is in the mid 30's for that. Cityhall 15:10, 14 July 2006 (EST)


 * Then why my friend do I not see Buffalo on there? --Bonojohn--22:36, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Um, yeah look at the table right in the buffalo article, Buffalo was 57 in 2000... We are not in the 30's...


 * UM, thats not what i was talking about, DUDE! look at the last thing on the page... If you look closely you see that were not on there... The one your looking at is a census table, not the "50 Largest cities of the United States by population" --Bonojohn-23:02, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I know DUDE. I was just pointing out that not only was user Cityhall wrong, but the proof is directly within the article on which they were commenting...

T.C. 23:22, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


 * AHAhaha sry man, realy. So may I ask why its there, can we get rid of it? -Bonojohn 23:33, 14 July 2006 (UTC)––

I commented that Buffalo is in the top 50 metropolitan areas. Proof I didn't mention anything about cities. If you look at the Wiki list for top 50 metro areas in the US, Buffalo is 45th, I misspke before. If there is a table for the top 50 metro areas, perhaps it should replace what we currently have. Cityhall 12:00, 20 July 2006 (EST)


 * I fixed the table on wich Cityhall originaly referd to -- adding a link to the [List of United States metropolitan statistical areas by population] table. --Bonojohn 01:09, 21 July 2006 (UTC)--

Syracuse DAB
Editors of Buffalo, New York: I thought that you would be interested in looking at the talk:Syracuse page. Currently, a group is attempting to remove the disambiguation page located there in favor of the article for Syracuse, Italy. Seeing as this change might have precedence affecting other upstate New York articles, I hoped that you would be interested in chiming in. Thanks for your interest one way or the other.