Talk:Bugatti Veyron/Archive 3

Sports Car?
Can this really be classified as a sports car? Why not Ultra-mega-super-car? 76.71.209.129 (talk) 06:38, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Because that wouldn't be a neutral point of view. Also, we don't use the term supercar, see the following discussions:
 * Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Automobiles/Archive 11
 * Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Automobiles/Archive 11
 * Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Automobiles/Archive 12
 * Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Automobiles/Archive 13
 * Articles for deletion/List of supercars
 * Categories for discussion/Log/2008 February 11
 * Categories for discussion/Log/2008 March 22 swa  q  16:14, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * In strict definition, this is not a sports car. The sports car article itself makes at least four mentions of low weight being a common goal of cars in that category. (Volkswagen clearly did not consider weight an issue when designing the Veyron.) Comfort, passenger space, and ride quality were given consideration, which is further evidence that this is more like a grand tourer than anything else. --ColinMB (talk) 22:18, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think you're probably right. swa  q  16:32, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The Veyron's official classification is a Dream Car — Preceding unsigned comment added by Calibreslicer (talk • contribs) 07:22, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

comments
actually buggati veyron is not the fastest car and it is the 2nd fastest car

by rishit kotian pune maharashtra india —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.195.65.241 (talk) 10:31, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

this car is the best in the world if you actullaaaaaaaaaay look at it you will se that it is made for the circuit at 1,001 hp it can go from 0 to 60 in 2.5 sec now thats fast —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.119.173.2 (talk) 20:31, 29 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The Bugatti Veyron Super Sport is the fastest production car in the world. The Bugatti Veyron SS does 431km/h or 267mph and does 0-100km/h (62mph) in 2.4 seconds. Guinness World Records have even proven it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Calibreslicer (talk • contribs) 07:40, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Autocar Magazine Car of the Decade Award not validated?
Upon checking the Autocar website, it appears that the Range Rover won the prestigious award, and the Bugatti tied the Nissan GT-R for third place.

Article: http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/Range-Rover/246211/Excerpt:

Of more than 7500 votes, some 18 per cent - nearly a fifth - were for the Range Rover, a car launched in 2001 to widespread acclaim.

“The Range Rover is a fine choice for Car of the Decade,” said Autocar editor Chas Hallett. “Most polls like this have results skewed towards the latter end of their timescale, but not this one. That the Range Rover was launched nine years ago yet remains a benchmark speaks volumes for the brilliance of its design – and for the taste of the people who voted for it.”

The Range Rover saw off strong showings from the MkII Lotus Elise, which took second place with 12.5 per cent of the vote, and the Bugatti Veyron and Nissan GT-R, which each polled 8.8 percent of the total to finish joint third.

As no citation is listed for this quote, perhaps we should consider removing it?

AluminumHaste (talk) 17:47, 16 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I removed it, it's BS. Snapperkeeper (talk) 04:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)


 * What about Top Gear Car of the year award by James May for the Veyron Super Sport? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Calibreslicer (talk • contribs) 07:44, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Design, production beginnings??
Can anyone/someone add something to the article re this? As in who came up with the idea to design and build what is the world's fastest production car? Who designed the engine? Who designed the bodyshell of the car itself.

What was the timescale between the initial meeting of the 'suits' at Volkswagen, the decision on naming the car Veyron and the decision to resurrect the long deceased 'Bugatti' name to promote the car.

The whole history of the car from boardroom musings, to actual decisions, to people screwing in carbon fibre need addressing.

As it stands the article just seems to begin with 'look, here's a new car, let's thrash its' arse off and draw up some new figures'.

It's important to know where the nexus of the car came from, and the timescale/decisions which then created it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.155.240.253 (talk) 03:46, 19 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I have some information your looking for. The Veyron was named after Pierre Veyron who was the last person to win the Le Mans 24-hour race in a Bugatti. The reason why they named it Veyron, I don't know but that's where it came from. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Calibreslicer (talk • contribs) 07:54, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Defaulting to km/h instead of mph
The Top Gear section of the article wasn't consistent in choosing which speed measurement system to use first, and which to later convert in brackets. For example: "253 mph (407.16 km/h)" and then later in the text "431.072 km/h (267.856 mph)".

The Bugatti Veyron is made in Europe, and I have thus defaulted all measurements to the metric system. Even NASA uses it. Imperial measurements will be displayed in brackets.

This is a minor edit, but the reason for it must be displayed here for the sake of understanding.

Feel free to disagree with me.

Milan J. (talk) 13:45, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

It can go 500.3km/h —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.173.101.128 (talk) 23:46, 31 January 2011 (UTC)


 * No Milan is correct. 500.3km/h is a ridiculous claim. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Calibreslicer (talk • contribs) 07:56, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Street legal or not??
The article states that this car is street legal, but according to a review I have seen on it, it is not. What then is the point of buying this car?Davez621 (talk) 06:58, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It is street legal. 90.212.120.86 (talk) 20:29, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Not in Australia it's not. Davez621 (talk) 16:24, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Do any Australians besides Rupert Murdoch have that kind of scratch?
 * Yes, plenty do. I believe someone here has already bought one (or at least ordered one).  Anyway, there's a difference between being able to afford something and actually buying something.  Australians don't splash out nearly as much as Americans do.Davez621 (talk) 21:00, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The way it is written now does not necessarily imply that it is road-legal in every country. As for the point of buying one, that is subjective.  You could try to ask an owner, I suppose...  swa  q  21:18, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Get off wikipedia if you are going to be obnoxious ozkidzez91 (talk) 14:29, 18 December 2010 (UTC) --> Who cares about Australia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.71.209.129 (talk) 06:37, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The Veyron is defenitely street legal in Germany, the U.K., France (and probably most countries of the EU) as well as the U.S.A. --92.195.76.234 (talk) 20:56, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * If it isn't strictly road-legal in Australia, presumably you have something like the SVA (Single Vehicle Approval, as opposed to "type approval" of volume cars) that kit-car builders and hot-rodders must pass to get their cars on the road in the UK. I guess we'll see when that rich aussie's car hits oz, assuming they aren't leaving it at their house in another country. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.107.183.201 (talk) 00:22, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

It's definitely street legal in the U.S. I saw one for the first time today (in San Jose, CA) and nearly ran my own car off the road while staring at that STUNNINGLY GORGEOUS work of art! I am in love... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.161.47.202 (talk) 06:05, 25 April 2009 (UTC) It's not street legal in Canada. An example of another car is a 94-95 Dodge Spirit, which cannot be imported into Canada. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whitebro (talk • contribs) 15:38, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow, Canada sucks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.165.93.3 (talk) 19:48, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Grand Sport
The Grand Sport version of the Bugatti Veyron is as important as the Super Sport or the 16.4. I see it in the specials section but it is a different car. The Audi Spyder is different from the normal Audi. So the Veyron Grand Sport is a convertible of the Veryon. Thius needs to be looked at. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.124.7.166 (talk) 02:44, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

LEGO R/C model Veyron
Probably not encyclopaedic to put in the main page but this is too cool to miss. It's a radio control Veyron model made with Lego - with a working 7 speed gearbox, and retractable spoiler. http://www.geekologie.com/2010/04/shrinkray_me_i_wanna_drive_it.php  Stepho  talk 02:05, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Configurator website
The Bugatti Configurator website has been online for several years (I think late 2005/early 2006), not since Dec 2010. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.242.59.56 (talk) 09:38, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Specifications and performance
"The engine is fed by four bi-turbochargers"

No.

This article is a joke. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.242.59.56 (talk) 09:48, 8 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Please feel free to make corrections or to reword it. Factual changes must have a solid reference to back them up. Thanks.  Stepho  talk 10:23, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Trivia section
Half of the information in the newly added 'Trivia' section are engineering facts that belong elsewhere in the article - as long as there are references for these 'facts'. There should also be metric conversions for readers outside of the US.

The other half is a list of owners. Unless those owners affect the car in some way, the list should be deleted. Also be aware that some editors will delete Trivia sections without warning since it is general Wiipedia policy to avoid 'Trivial', 'Popular culture' and similar topics in articles to avoid useless clutter.  Stepho  talk 22:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

James May speed perception comment
The below comment is completely incorrect and gives a false perception of the vehicle.

"May remarked (perhaps jokingly) that the Veyron took so long to slow from top speed to a complete stop that he almost accidentally opened the door at seventy miles per hour in his haste."

This above statement makes it sound like the Veyron is a very slow decelerating vehicle when in fact it’s the exact opposite.

James May never said it "took so long to slow down" what he said was (Not in these words exactly) that his speed perception was so distorted from travelling so fast that going at 70miles an hour it felt like the car was almost stopped hence he nearly opened the door. 80.231.29.20 (talk) 11:20, 5 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Feel free to add or change anything that can be verified.  Stepho  talk 12:14, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Fastest car?
It appears like the Ultima GTR is the fastest accelerating and decelerating car in the world, not the Bugatti Veyron.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_GTR

http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/gtr/

Maybe this can be fixed to give credit to the right car? 206.248.128.31 (talk) 23:32, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No, people, the Veyron is quicker to 60 mph than the GTR. The GTR does 0-60 in 2.6 seconds, whereas, the Veyron does it in 2.46 seconds. Furthermore, this article states that it can reach 150 mph in 9.8 seconds over the 1/4 mile, making it the most rapid accelerating production car in history. So there, end of story. --Tony Feld (talk) 15:43, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * It's not as simple as that - AFAIK, the Ultima holds the world record at 2.6 seconds, whereas 2.46 for the Bugatti is just a manufacturer's claim. I've never seen test figures of less than 2.7 secs for the Bug, does anyone know of any? Jellyfish dave (talk) 19:56, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Wrong again, idiots! The fastest-accelerating car is the Red Victor 1 with a 0-60 time of just 1 second. Try to beat that! --Doy-doy people (talk) 00:51, 4 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The fastest car is the satanic machine http://www.perrotfeeler.com/Vehic1.htm (400 m in 3.5s, 621km/h), it is is still a car :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.30.139.86 (talk) 13:30, 24 February 2009 (UTC)


 * "Wrong again, idiots!"? - Please do not use insults. This is not proper Wikipedia etiquette. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hackercraft (talk • contribs) 21:37, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

RV1 isnt a production car, its a one off mod. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.254.146.20 (talk) 11:48, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The record will be broken then the [Ariel_Atom#Ariel_Atom_500|Ariel atom 500] reaches production, the 0-60 time at least Thomashauk (talk) 23:20, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

I would say yes.--Purz12 (talk) 21:19, 5 February 2010 (UTC) This is the fastest car in the world
 * The Veyron is the fastest Production car in the world. The Veyron accelerates from 0-100Km/h (0-62mph) in 2.562 seconds and that isn't a claim by Bugatti. Also the Bugatti Veyron Super Sport is even faster still with 2.487 seconds. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Calibreslicer (talk • contribs) 07:16, 5 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I believe the established convention is the title of the fastest car goes to the one with the highest top speed. 98.206.155.53 (talk) 13:18, 28 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Not necessarily. There are so many different definitions of fastest car, and circumstances surrounding it.  Have a look at the Top gear power lap board - the Ariel Atom V8 was more than a second faster around the track than the super sport, and there were 8 cars faster than the original Veyron (not counting the Super Sport).  Thus the Atom is "faster" than the Super Sport, and there were 8 others "faster" than the original.   a_man_alone (talk) 15:10, 28 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh dear lord, not everything revolves around top Gear. Feudonym (talk) 11:22, 18 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Check the date stamps - this is an old conversation from 2010/2011.  Stepho  talk 12:04, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

"permanent 4WD"
....Wouldn't this be AWD? --RThompson82 (talk) 21:58, 15 September 2012 (UTC)


 * The two terms mean the same thing for a four-wheeled vehicle. The perceived difference is more to do with marketing.  Stepho  talk 22:48, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Originally sold under cost?
On the original Top Gear show, one of the key points (in my recollection) was that this was a car that, despite it's very high price, was actually being sold for less that it cost to make. Anyone find a reference to this? Was this *actually* the case? Presumably this has changed? Snori (talk) 18:27, 19 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I expect the orignal claim was based on the same fallacious reasoning as was recently applied to the Volt, lumping in development costs and tooling costs and dividing them by the number built so far. Having been involved in developing some high end one off cars I think I can say very confidently that it is hard to spend more than about a million dollars on parts and labor for a car if there is not any real super technology in it. Greglocock (talk) 23:43, 19 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Regardless of the math reliable surce are making the statement that the car sells for significantly less than it costs to make. And it should be noted, that developement costs are always included in total production costs for a particular product. Developement isnt "free" so it must be included in the total production cost. If you read a few annual reports from auto manufacturers you;ll be able to see this is normal and industry standard (as are costs to retool a line, marketing, etc.) [ref]http://jalopnik.com/260477/bugatti-veyron-164[/ref] 96.49.237.199 (talk) 19:46, 1 October 2012 (UTC)


 * There should be a more reliable source than the Jalopnik blog to state each Veyron costs $10 million to produce. 72Dino (talk) 19:53, 1 October 2012 (UTC)


 * By that reasoning, pratically every car ever made in the last 50 years was sold under cost. Development and tooling costs are expected to be amortised over the lifetime production of the vehicle (typically 3-5 years), not just the first year. Some costs are amortised over a few vehicle generations (eg building a new factory or developing a new engine family).  Stepho  talk 22:35, 1 October 2012 (UTC)


 * There should be a better source, and once it is found, it can go in, because in wikipedia verifiability beats truth. But, YOU don't have to buy into journalists stupidity. So if you don't try very hard to include it, wiki is a better encyclopedia. Imagine that, the easy option (do nothing) is also the correct option. Greglocock (talk) 23:35, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm sure I heard "5 Million" in an episode of Top Gear. Are YouTube videos from official channels allowed as sources? CHCSPrefect (talk) 13:07, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Naming convention
Is it really 16.4=16 cylinders and 4 turbos? Veyron 18/4 doesn't have any turbos and still 18 means 18cyl, also the Chiron 18/3 could mean 18 cyl and 3 banks in a W engine. So 16.4 could mean 4 rows of cylinders (still only 2 banks as its 2x VR8 and not 2x V8) or even 4WD YBSOne (talk) 23:07, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

How come there is no reference to the rpm at which the claimed horsepowers are achieved?
Seems like a quite basic information to me... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.83.92.202 (talk) 23:19, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Well there is, just need to make "some" effort: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volkswagen_Group_petrol_engines#W16
 * Its' 6,000 rpm YBSOne (talk) 19:25, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Guinness Title revoked
Can someone add this source? Seems Guinness believes the tested Veyron isn't mechanically similar. http://www.gtspirit.com/2013/04/07/bugatti-veyron-super-sport-stripped-of-world-record-by-guinness/

Kensuke Nogami (talk) 04:24, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Guinness Title re-instated
http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/bugatti-veyron-reinstated-guinness-world-fastest-production-car-181741988.html

So, looks like the Super Sport had a dream- it was king, woke up -still king.

As of right now, the Bugatti Veyron Super Sport is indeed, the fastest production car. As of 4/13/2013 98.85.106.20 (talk) 04:12, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Bugatti SuperVeyron (2013) crystal ball gazing
The new 'Bugatti SuperVeyron (2013)' section has three reference, one a rather dated press release from 5 years ago that says little more than something will change and two recent articles that are mostly rumours. Even the engine size is questionable whether it is 8.0 L or 9.6 L and the 1600 hp figure is a target that might not be reached and may or may not require the assistance of an electric to reach (according to the autoexpress reference). This is seriously in WP:CRYSTALBALL gazing territory.  Stepho  talk 22:27, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Official website
There is a disagreement over how to link to the official website:

Jimthing believes that readers will have trouble knowing the official site of what? I believe that readers will use the same reasoning they used for the section title like 'Name origin', 'Sales' and 'Special versions' - the article title provides the context for anything not explicitly labelled. Also, if the template was meant to be used in the way that Jimthing believes then it is doing it in an overly complex way that provides no benefit to doing the markup manually. See Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Official_website and select some pages at random to see many other pages using it the simple way that I believe it should be used.  Stepho  talk 02:13, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Speed record is outdated
I don't have time to further verify or edit right now, so a quick note. It appears the Veyron record is now outdated. See http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motoring/news/article.cfm?c_id=9&objectid=11209552 etc. Uberveritas (talk) 02:57, 5 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Fortunately as written the lede is still correct. Also an unofficial one way run by a modified production car is not quite the same record. Greglocock (talk) 04:07, 5 March 2014 (UTC)


 * From the NZ Herald article: "All that remains now is for the good ol boys at Hennessey to do it again in both directions with the Guiness World Record people watching for it to become official." Unofficial runs don't count for records.  Stepho  talk 06:02, 5 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Also, Guiness requires 30 cars to be manufactured to be considered production. Only 29 of these will be made . Bahooka (talk) 06:53, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Marketing Talk
The "Special Versions" section is completely irrelevant and should be entirely deleted. Giving a colour scheme a separate name might be a clever marketing idea, but isn't noteworthy in an encyclopedia, maybe, if you're tolerant, except for the fact that various colour scheme exist and are promoted by the producer. Chilrreh (talk) 21:47, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

rumoured 1.8 seconds 0-60 time
I do not think this should be in the article. First up it is a rumor in a blog, not an RS. Third up, it breaks the laws of physics, on any feasible tire. Fourth, is the lambda effect, ratio of rotating inertia plus mass to the mass. It would need tires with a mu of of about 1.8, stickier than F1 tires. OK that is OR, but some commonsense is required for such ill referenced, peacock, crystal ball claims. Greglocock (talk) 03:09, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

For the mouth breathers here is a bit on the lambda effect http://books.google.com/books?id=NSlSJtEy-NIC&pg=PA45&lpg=PA45&dq=first+gear+acceleration+rotational+inertia&source=bl&ots=MpW62sap-b&sig=yEN12hVw1JJnNPwHWAt-WwK66UU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_g2-U6O4EobjkgX81IC4CA&ved=0CFYQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=first%20gear%20acceleration%20rotational%20inertia&f=false Greglocock (talk) 03:59, 10 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Agreed - rumours should not be here. I should have deleted it outright like you did. Should we delete the entire section, especially since it is mostly predictions from 2-3 years ago.  Stepho  talk 05:14, 10 July 2014 (UTC)


 * http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/no-bugatti-galibier-or-super-veyron-detroit-2014-01-15 let's kill it Greglocock (talk) 05:26, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Improving this article
I have made a temporary subpage in my user page to act as a “frame” to build up a rewritten version of this article. I have started with creating a well made outline for everyone to follow. Add in or change anything you like, but please note all edits, however minor they may be. This is so that a better version (cleaned up) may be made without disrupting the current one. —Mr Grim Reaper (talk • contribs • email), 23:10, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps a number of the gratuitous Top Gear references can be removed? This is not an advertisement for the television programme. Certainly there are other sources of credible information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.198.3 (talk) 15:20, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Top gear is not a news source, regardless. It is a scripted entertainment show. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.19.2.53 (talk) 00:14, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Special editions
I've just removed a bunch of single instance special editions from the article. It's in danger of becoming nothing more than a list of one off models produced for uber-rich members of the elite. To be a "proper" production run there needs to be more than one car produced. Chaheel Riens (talk) 08:04, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

I streamlined the special editions section a bit too (as did others). But every time I see this article I wonder who started describing all the paint schemes sold under a precious sounding name. My strong guess is it must be Bugatti's sales department or somebody "inspired" by them. Anybody opposed to the idea to delete the whole part and simply saying that Bugatti shows from time to time special versions of the car which are distinguished by special paint schemes and other details of appearance? Chilrreh (talk) 20:04, 14 September 2014 (UTC)


 * They can go. Your wording is good. If there were significant mechanical or equipment differences that'd be another thing altogether, but colours? no. Greglocock (talk) 22:05, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Top Gear reliability
An IP editor has twice removed a section referring to comments made by Top Gear, with the initial summary of ""removing top gear "factual" references, since it is a scripted entertainment show and not a news source"". I maintain that in these instances, Top Gear is classed as reliable due to the technical nature of the testing. While I agree that some parts are not so reliable, it's the context that's important.

Anyway, I brought it up on the Reliable sources noticeboard and the comment there is that yes, it is (in this context - which is the important consideration) TG is reliable. So, I've reinstated the comment. Also, let's note that as per WP:BRD after the first reversion the ip editor should have begun discussion himself here, rather than just reverting again.


 * Reliable_sources/Noticeboard Chaheel Riens (talk) 14:04, 6 August 2014 (UTC)


 * As per wp:duck, I believe that this edit is the return of the previous editor who removed the Top Gear comments:


 * The style of language is exactly the same as in the previous edit summaries "top gear is not a news source. They are a self-proclaimed entertainment show. Their statements are not guaranteed to be factual" and "removing top gear "factual" references, since it is a scripted entertainment show and not a news source"
 * Both IP addresses geolocate to Seattle, Washington.


 * As I took pains to make clear last time - Top Gear (in this instance) is considered reliable. If the IP editor believes differently, then they should at least join a discussion here first.  Chaheel Riens (talk) 15:55, 19 November 2014 (UTC)


 * I normally class Top Gear as a clown show and very unreliable as a source of factual information. However, in this case, they suspended their usual crap and actually did a factual review. So I support Chaheel Riens in this instance.  Stepho  talk 14:06, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

2013 Bugatti Veyron 16.4 Grand Sport Vitesse 'Le Ciel Californien'
2013 Bugatti Veyron 16.4 Grand Sport Vitesse 'Le Ciel Californien'~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BugattiVeyronVitesseSE.jpg http://www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1068284 YBSOne (talk) 11:45, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

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Dollar Conversions
The Base Prices shown, converted to dollars, are out-of-date. Using the XE.com posted exchange rate as this comment is written of $1.04548 = €1 gives €1,225,000 = $1,280,713 and €1,912,500 = $1,999,480.50; I leave the rounding to whoever maintains this entry. ☺ Dick Kimball (talk) 15:08, 29 December 2016 (UTC)


 * I don't think they should be updated to today's exchange rate. The car is not being sold anymore today, hence the rates presented are historic. However, since pound, dollar and euro fluctuated wildly between 2005-2011, I'm in favour of removing the comparisons altogether unless the $ and £ prices can be cited to the manufacturer. Daß &thinsp; Wölf 15:23, 29 December 2016 (UTC)


 * If you bring them up-to-date then you will have the same problem next year, and the year after that, and the next year after that, and so on. It will be a never ending task unless you find a way to automatic it - which doesn't exist at the moment. It is best to either use the conversions with the exchange rate valid at the time the source price was valid or to remove the conversion altogether (as suggested by the wolf). If the conversion is used then it must be made clear the month and year of the exchange rate - eg €1,000,000 (US$1,500,000 at July 2005 exchange rates). Since Euros, British Pounds and US Dollars are almost universally treated as world currencies (except in the US), it seems a bit redundant to convert between them, so my preference is to simply remove the conversions.  Stepho  talk 20:04, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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removal of sections
Maybe, in light of recent developments, it is time to remove the 'Gordon Murray' comments from the page. Does anyone really care what he thinks about the Veyron? He was a competitor, and his comments are pure sour grapes. Why are they in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.61.189.14 (talk) 14:08, 1 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Thats true Wikipedia is meant to have a non-biased view on every article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Calibreslicer (talk • contribs) 07:48, 5 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Actually his comments after driving it were at least neutral, if not a glowing review, something along the lines of 'well if you HAVE to have 1000 hp in a sportscar then this is a pretty good attempt'. But yes, i think the comments are redundant. Greglocock (talk) 03:51, 1 June 2012 (UTC)


 * With the unsourced, maybe even invented bad mouth stuff removed it looks ok. Drachentötbär (talk) 19:05, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

Total Curb Weight
The curb weight for the Veyron is listed differently in two locations. In the quick-glance box at the top, the curb weight is listed as 1,888 kg (4,162 lb), whereas, in the body of the article, the curb weight is listed as 2,034.8 kilograms (4,486 lb). Bugatti's website lists a 'Lightweight Construction Concept' as having a curb weight of 1,888 kg, but most websites list the weight closer to the 2,000 kg mark. The Lightweight Construction Concept might have been some sort of a concept vehicle produced by Bugatti, or it might be the real weight of the car. In any case, someone should make a decision to correct these numbers, or at least make them the same. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.91.171.36 (talk) 16:29, 3 February 2011 (UTC)


 * It's not really got any better. We now have the weight listed in the sidebar as "1838 - 1990" kg, but no mention anywhere else in the text, nor any sign as to which of the (at least 4) different sub-models rate at which weight. It may seem a bit pendantic but I'm trying to compare the Veyron's (in both original and Super Sport guises) power to weight against other hypercars for a list and this makes it impossible to be at all precise. 146.199.0.132 (talk) 11:34, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

W-Engine or DoubleV
In the German Wikipedia its not "a real" W-Engine its a Double-V that looks like a W-Engine. They show the picture, that is shown here in the W-Engine article, as a Double-V. VW himself call them W-Engine but technically its not —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.64.49.144 (talk) 14:07, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Its not 2x V8 but 2x VR8, there are 2 banks of VR8 engines, as original W engine has 3 banks (Veyron 18/4 and Chiron 18/3 have W18 engines with 3 banks of cylinders), also original VW W8 or W12 engines from passats and phaetons are still 2x VR engines YBSOne (talk) 23:10, 24 November 2012 (UTC)


 * The W engine article says that a W engine may have:
 * 3 banks,
 * 4 banks on a common crankshaft, or
 * 4 banks on 2 cranks shafts (ie 2 V engines)  Stepho  talk 11:38, 25 November 2012 (UTC)


 * And W16 article says: "Volkswagen Group is the only automotive manufacturer currently producing W16 engines. Volkswagen Group's design is a stretched form of its W12 engine, which is itself based on technology from its VR6 engine." So its 2x VR8 NOT 2x V8, on the picture You can see 2 banks of cylinders, eachbank incorporating 2 rows of cylinders ie VR8.YBSOne (talk) 14:54, 25 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Or in other words, they invented the damn thing and are the only manufacturer making it, so they can probably be allowed to define what does and doesn't count. If you want to be really pendantic about it, maybe call it a "WR" engine? 146.199.0.132 (talk) 11:35, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

BBC TopGear, 28th June 2009. Bugatti Veyron vs McLaren F1
On the episode on the above date, Richard Hammond raced the Veyron against The Stig in the McLaren F1 in Abu Dahbi in a 1 mile drag race, while the F1 had the intial lead the Veyron caught up and over took the F1 to finish first. The more observant would have noticed that during the sequence the Veyron deploys its spolier, which based upon James Mays experience (Top Gear Series 9 Episode 24 February 2007) with the Veyron previously, would suggest that the car had not been placed into super slippy max speed mode (sorry couldn't think of a better name for it than that!) Which is activated while stationary and in which the spolier is kept retracted and the car hunkers down to minimise drag. If it had been so would the Veyron crossed the line with a greater margin? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.8.49.225 (talk) 12:34, 6 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, I also noticed that. It just so happens that the car is very expensive, and is loaned to motor TV shows by the people who own it. In that case, it was loaned by some sheik or a deluxe car stand. It seems they can use it, but only with all the safety on. So, no second key, unleashing the full 1001 PS...
 * Also, the fact that Richard Hammond is not a pro, may have also influenced the result. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.244.182.83 (talk) 09:01, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
 * "The McLaren was faster up until 170 because of the Bugatti's cooling. That car belongs to Rowan Atkinson. I can tell you, seeing as Andy Wilman, producer of Top Gear, gave a detailed account of the race to him, that it was not, 'driver error'. On a dry British road, the Bugatti may have been faster but the race was done in the blistering heat of Abu Dhabi and the McLaren was faster" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.208.5.3 (talk) 16:41, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Whilst I've not seen that episode for a while, whilst browsing earlier I ran across a alleged quote saying that Hammond wasn't using the Veyron's launch control or other special features - which presumably include not putting it into Super Speed mode - in order to make it a fairer and "more interesting" race against the much older and "lower tech" McLaren. IE, both cars were driven in the normal configuration that an everyday driver would leave them in - the Veyron in non-Super Speed, and the McLaren in the only config it has. As the Veyron's top speed is listed as (and limited to?) 375km/h in normal mode, which is *just* quicker than the F1's supposed 231mph Vmax, it should have been a pretty close call but with ultimate victory still going to the Bugatti. 146.199.0.132 (talk) 11:59, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Removed content
I removed the following lines:

"The fact the F1 was ahead until those speeds appears to be staged. Referencing the straight-line performance figures for both cars on their respective Wikipedia entries reveals that the Bugatti is superior in every level of acceleration. Though desert heat may have affected the Veyron's turbos, making it somewhat slower, this does not explain the differential shown in the video."

This is not accurate. The acceleration times for the Bugatti are as good as they will ever be. 4WD prevents traction loss and the gearing is automatic; the driver need only floor the pedal to achieve the car's potential. This is not so in the McLaren. The original times were achieved by a journalist on 1993-era tires. In this configuration, the car is traction-limited until third gear. If the McLaren owner had equipped Michelin Cup tires or equivalent for the Top Gear test, the F1 could easily have reached into the 5-second range to 100 MPH. Likewise, a racing driver would have improved both shift times and traction modulation. Given that the F1 has a superior power-to-weight ratio to the Veyron, and the latter's reduced output in hot weather, a reversed result is hardly surprising. Alexdi (talk) 06:02, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Another point of interest: the Veyron can vary in performance quite a lot from test to test. Here's Evo's run, without launch control:

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/238672/nissan_gtr_v_bugatti_veyron.html

The acceleration curve is almost identical to the F1, except that the Veyron is a half-second faster across the board because of superior traction. I can only assume Hammond's Veyron was quicker, because if Evo's car had raced the F1 and fallen behind at the start, it might never have caught up. Alexdi (talk) 05:13, 25 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Plus, the F1 was driven by the Stig, vs Clarkson in the Veyron. The skill difference might have caused the irregularity. Joesolo13 (talk) 18:08, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Inconsistency
The start of the article states that the average top speed is 267.81 mph (431.072 km/h) Whereas the final section, Top Gear's comments, says it is 267.91 mph (431.16 kph)

It's 0.1mph difference, but still. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.224.143.169 (talk) 17:15, 30 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Probably from different editors citing different articles' conversions of the reported numbers. I just fixed them to all use the official km/h numbers to 3 decimals (431.072 km/h). —MJBurrage(T•C) 23:21, 8 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Given the usual slapdash, round-it-off-to-the-nearest-10 Wikipedia approach to Metric/Imperial or Metric/Standard conversions, only being a tenth of a MPH out is pretty small beer. 146.199.0.132 (talk) 12:02, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Power-to-weight ratio
This article states that the veyron super sport weight is 1,888 kilograms (4,162 lb), and that the engine output is 1,200 metric horsepower (883 kW; 1,184 bhp), and according to Volkswagen Group's figures this gives the car a power-to-weight ratio of 446.3 metric horsepower (328 kW; 440 bhp) per ton.

This does not seem to add up. 446,3 metric horsepower per ton x 1,888 tonnes = 842,6144 metric horsepower total. Given the figures above, the power-to-weight ratio should be 635,59 metric horsepower per ton (1200/1,888), which makes a 42% increase of the numbers originally given in the article.

Or is it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.176.233.200 (talk) 12:39, 21 February 2012 (UTC)


 * The 1200bhp is referring to the supersport edition, whereas I think the VW figures refer to the original "slow" Veyron.


 * However, I get different results again:


 * Supersport - 1200/1888=635 bhp per tonne
 * Original - 1001/1888=530 bhp per tonne


 * Confusing. Chaheel Riens (talk) 13:17, 21 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Possibly they were mixing their units and giving it as horsepower per non metric ton. The presence or absence of the final "ne" being crucial here. One tonne = 1000kg, whereas one long ton = 1016kg. Which... hmm, really shouldn't make that much difference even so. Could be they went via the short ton (907kg) and then did a multiply instead of a divide somewhere, which would at least get closer to 1000hp, even if not 1200. The rest maybe made up by the slight difference between (B)HP and PS. 146.199.0.132 (talk) 12:06, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Errors in Kinematics of article
Quote: //Aerodynamic friction or drag is proportional to the square of the speed. That means to cover a a given distance at twice a given speed the engine must do four times the work to cover the distance at the given speed. Further, by going twice as fast, the engine must do that work in half the time. Therefore, to go twice the given speed requires eight times the power required to go the given speed.//

This is incorrect. Drag quadrouples when speed doubles. The author makes an error by including distance in the discussion. Air resistance quadrouples, necessitating four times the horsepower to drive at double the current speed - in terms of aerodynamic drag. Not sure where the "8 times the power" reference is from. In fact, seeing as speed is doubled, it takes 1/2 the time to cover a given distance. Therefore to drive at twice the speed over a given distance, requires twice the energy.

210.9.200.35 (talk) 05:18, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * This calculation in the article confused me, too, and at first I also thought it would be wrong. However, power is the product of the force you have to overcome multiplied by the speed you travel at: P=F*v. The force in this case is mainly the aerodynamic friction (but also mechanical friction). If v doubles, the aerodynamic friction - meaning the force to overcome - quadrouples. That means, to double your speed you need the power P_faster = 4F*2v = 8P. Or am I thinking wrong here? --92.195.76.234 (talk) 21:07, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

23/12/08

Just use the equations: Power is equal to work done divided by the time taken (P=W/t). Work done is equal to the force applied multiplied by the distance travelled (W=Fd).So it follows that P=Fd/t. Distance divided by time is equal to Velocity, so P=FV. The drag force (F) is calculated from the air density (rho), surface area of the car (S), the velocity of the car (V) and the coefficient of drag (CD) using the equation F=1/2*rho*V^2*S*CD, so if we double the velocity we increase the drag force by a factor of 4. So doubling velocity gives us P2=(4F1)*(2V1), or P2=8F1V1, where F1 and V1 are the drag force and velocity at the original speed and P2 is the power required when the speed is doubled. Doubling the speed increases the power required by a factor of 8. In reality there are other factors, but this is a close approximation at high speed when aerodynamic drag can be said to dominate.


 * Or in simple terms, the "power requirement increases proportional to the square of travel speed" rule only really holds at low-medium speeds, from about 15 to 100mph (below that, it's more linear because aero drag is pretty much negligble unless you're moving a very large, high drag object). For example, you need about 20hp to travel at 60mph, and about 40hp to travel at 85mph, in a car of about the same aerodynamic profile. Once you head north of that range, the rule goes out of the window as the aerodynamic effects create drag in a manner that moves more towards being cube rather than square law. Otherwise you would only need about 180hp to reach 180mph, and 320hp to reach 240mph, without changing the aero at all. Instead you need closer to 1000hp (50x more, not 16x, so more than 3x what you'd otherwise expect) to reach the latter speed, after radically improving the vehicle's aerodynamic profile. ((or as we need *roughly* 50hp to reach 150km/h... 405kmh/150kmh = 2.7x, 1000hp/50hp = 20x, and 2.7 cubed is 19.683... suggesting it may even be going quadratic beyond 200mph, not just cubed)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.199.0.132 (talk) 11:45, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Why not just use the well known equations and get the answer right rather than trying to incorrectly pick regimes where one term in the polynomial dominates? Greglocock (talk) 22:36, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Another way is to look at fuel consumption. At maximum speed, the car only rates 3mpg US, with the engine consuming 1.4 US gallons per minute. Versus city and highway economy of 8 and 14mpg US respectively. If we assume equal engine efficiency in both cases (the truth is, for something as powerful as the Veyron, it'll be far less thermodynamically efficient at the lower speed, because it's using such a small fraction of the total power - which for a typical petrol engine generally means extremely high pumping losses and most of the generated power actually going to just keeping the engine turning rather than the wheels, even if you use cylinder deactivation to only run it on 4 instead of 16; consider it similar to driving a typical 80hp hatchback around at no more than 18mph), and a highway cruising speed of 65mph (105kmh)... maximum speed uses nearly 5x as much fuel per unit distance, for less than 4x the speed. So even looking at that, the power use has increased at more than the square of speed. And the actual increase in fuelling rate is almost 20x. 146.199.0.132 (talk) 11:54, 6 June 2018 (UTC)