Talk:Bulat Utemuratov/Archive 1

Changes undone
Radicalbavin, it appears that you may be editing with a Conflict of interest, as you identify yourself on your User page as a marketing expert who specialises in brand management. Such editors should use Talk pages to limit their direct interactions with Wikipedia, as our potential bias may unintentionally affect the tone of the articles if we make changes without explanation. In one case, the source you used has been noted as potentially problematic under WP:RS given it is a .org domain and the United States’ historical influence on this publication means it should be reviewed by an independent editor. You also embedded this text as an external link in the text, rather than using the citation system, so when bots convert this it can leave a bare url. In another edit, you used a source that again does not meet WP:RS because there is no editorial control of this publication and the author predominantly republishes press-releases. I have therefore removed these recent edits as they are not appropriate for mainspace. Thank you for your understanding! Podsought (talk) 11:00, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Edit Request
I would like to request some changes as this article has been marked as having multiple issues. In the interest of transparency and compliance with Wikipedia’s Conflict of Interest policies, I declare that I have a connection with Bulat Utemuratov.


 * 1) Firstly, the concerns in the banner have largely been resolved. The article should now be in line with Wikipedia guidelines so the text reads neutrally, all sources function as intended, and the multiple issues tag can be removed.

❌ To my eyes, this article is still too promotional with too many claims with out relaible citations, so teh templates shoud stay. Duke Gilmore (talk) 04:00, 21 December 2022 (UTC)


 * 1) In the Business section could we please remove the following, as the actions of the new owner are not relevant to Utemuratov: “The deal turned out to be a poor one for Unicredit”

✅ Hindsight analysis of the buyer and transaction is irrelevant to the subject of the article. Duke Gilmore (talk)


 * 1) I have made some of the previous elements of this request directly to the page as following reflection I don't believe these are controversial/require discussion. These include copy-editing, removing/replacing non RS citations, and adding an image once one was available. Please see the history page to view the diffs.

I reviewed the edits made by the editor with a COI, and they seem OK to me. Duke Gilmore (talk)

Thank you in advance! Podsought (talk) 17:12, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Article still needs work, imo. See comments above. Cheers. Duke Gilmore (talk) 04:00, 21 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi Duke Gilmore, thank you for taking the time to review my request and edits, it is hugely appreciated considering the huge backlog which has been challenging for both of us. Obviously I am still eager to resolve the issues in the banner. What do you think of the below suggestions?
 * Some of this article's listed sources may not be reliable. (August 2022)
 * This referred to the deleted LinkedIn source which has now been removed. I can see that there is one bare url to fix, which I will do now, along with any other underwhelming citations.
 * This biography of a living person needs additional citations for verification, as its only attribution is to self-published sources; articles should not be based solely on such sources. (August 2022)
 * Again this refers to now-deleted sources, and there is also now a lot of secondary material to balance this. I personally think removing the external link to twitter (which is currently broken anyway) would help; I will replace this with the official website in the Infobox too. There are only 2 ‘citation needed’ tags left so this banner seems like overkill. There are primary sources which confirm the points in question but if there is currently no independent coverage I think removing this material would be better in line with BLP policy. I will do this now - let me know your thoughts!
 * This article contains content that is written like an advertisement. (February 2022)
 * Could you please indicate what you think needs to change to address this?
 * A major contributor to this article appears to have a close connection with its subject. (February 2022)
 * Once you are happy that the article is in line with all guidelines I would again request that this is removed
 * Thanks again for your help so far and have a great Christmas/holiday season!
 * Podsought (talk) 11:53, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Edit request
I am submitting a new request as I think the issues raised in the banner on this article have been addressed and merit a full separate review for removal by additional editors. Please see my updated reasoning here for consideration:


 * Some of this article's listed sources may not be reliable. (August 2022)

This referred to the deleted LinkedIn source which has now been removed. There are no more bare urls in the References list.


 * This biography of a living person needs additional citations for verification, as its only attribution is to self-published sources; articles should not be based solely on such sources. (August 2022)

Again, this refers to now-deleted sources, and there is also now a lot of secondary material to balance this.


 * This article contains content that is written like an advertisement. (February 2022)

Could you please indicate what needs to change to address this?


 * A major contributor to this article appears to have a close connection with its subject. (February 2022)

Once everyone is happy that the article is in line with all guidelines I would again request that this is removed.

As a final note, could the following piece of recent news be added in the "Other" section:


 * Following the 2023 Turkey-Syria earthquake, Utemuratov donated $5 million to the Turkish Disaster and Emergency Management Authority (AFAD).


 * [Source: https://astanatimes.com/2023/04/turkiyes-embassy-extends-gratitude-to-kazakh-people-for-support-in-aftermath-of-earthquake/, https://www.aa.com.tr/fr/monde/kazakhstan-pr%C3%A8s-de-10-millions-de-dollars-collect%C3%A9s-pour-les-victimes-des-s%C3%A9ismes-en-turkiye/2831101 or https://www.aa.com.tr/tr/asrin-felaketi/kazakistan-da-turkiye-deki-depremzedeler-icin-toplanan-bagis-10-milyon-dolara-yaklasti/2830977 (available in French or Turkish)]

Thank you again to everyone for taking these requests into consideration. Podsought (talk) 16:14, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Yellow check.svg Partly done: I personally believe that the COI template should be placed on the talk page because a close connection with a subject or topic doesn't necessarily mean that an article automatically has significant flaws. I also don't think that the article warrants a BLP self-published tag since most sources cited in this article aren't self-published. However, the article definitely reads like an advertisement, it popagates Tennis in Kazakhstan and heavily focuses on aspects that are not relevant for a Wikipedia article on a person. The sources also don't seem too trustworthy (at least not independent). Thus, I'm not removing the advert and unreliable sources tags. Please consider improving the article by debloating it, citing better sources, and fixing the grammar. I suggest you put your proposals forward as new edit requests. Best regards, -- Johannes (Talk) (Contribs) (Articles) 12:36, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Edit request
Hello, I would like to request further changes to this article. Once again I declare that I have a connection to Utemuratov.

The recent reordering of the article has made some changes which do not make sense. There is a new "Oligarch" section, which is not a typical section title, and seems to synthesize its own conclusions from three otherwise unrelated statements that do not follow on from each other.

This content should be moved to more appropriate placings in the Career section. The net worth could be moved to the introduction, as it is likely to update over time and not sit well in a chronological section. The 2020 WSJ report should just be in the Career section or removed as the injunction was revoked. The 2022 Hodge speech should also be moved to the end of the Career section.

Many thanks! Podsought (talk) 11:36, 3 August 2023 (UTC)


 * @Podsought Thank you for your request. If you could be more specific in describing the verbatim text which is to be moved, including a verbatim description of any text to be deleted, that would be much appreciated. Please advise. When ready to proceed with the verbatim text, please change the template's ans parameter to read from y to n.  Spintendo  14:05, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @Spintendo, thanks for answering so quickly! Here are the sentences that need moving:

1. "In October 2019, Utemuratov was in the top three of Forbes list of the 50 richest businessmen of Kazakhstan with an estimated capital of US$3,4 billion." should be moved to the introduction after the existiing paragraph there. As this estimate is from a stable URL from 2019 it could also be placed at the end of the Career section, but because updates are plausible I'm still leaning towards introduction.

2. The next two paragraphs are as follows, and should be moved into the Career section itself after the sentence "In 2015, Glencore bought Utemuratov's Gulfstream private jet in an undisclosed transaction". They are already in chronological order.


 * On 1 December 2020, The Wall Street Journal reported about the freezing of Utemuratov's assets including stakes in luxury hotels, cash in bank accounts in half a dozen countries and a Burger King franchise, by a UK civil court on the claim of BTA Bank. According to a statement distributed by Verny Capital on 9 December 2020, the freezing injunction of the English Court in relation to the assets of Bulat Utemuratov had been revoked following a settlement between the two parties.


 * In March 2022, Dame Margaret Hodge, a British Member of Parliament, named Utemuratov in a speech about corruption in Kazakhstan. Utemuratov was one of 30 oligarchs and members of the Kazakh elite who, Hodge claimed, had benefited from their ties to the Nazarbayev regime. Hodge said: “Bulat Utemuratov is a former chief of staff to Nazarbayev. A US diplomatic cable reported allegations that Utemuratov was the president’s "personal financial manager" and his own website assesses his personal wealth at $3.9 billion.”
 * Please let me know if i can clarify further! Podsought (talk) 14:42, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * ✔️ These three paragraphs are already at the end of the Career section, following the sentence In 2015, Glencore bought Utemuratov's Gulfstream private jet in an undisclosed transaction. Regards, Spintendo  19:30, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Spintendo can the inappropriate "Oligarch" title be removed as part of this? This section only makes sense chronologically, the paragraphs are otherwise unrelated and grouping them together under this title does not read neutrally. Podsought (talk) 11:20, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Podsought I've changed the heading to "2022 speech on corruption by British MP". The information about the Forbes list was moved to the end of the career section. Because the freezing of assets paragraph is related to the speech on corruption paragraph, I made one to be a subheading of the other. No content was deleted—only the headings were changed. Regards, Spintendo  15:36, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @Spintendo, thank you for answering, I respectfully have to disagree that these paragraphs require this level of emphasis. I have raised a post at the BLPN as I think the new subheadings are not in line with NPOV Podsought (talk) 08:41, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

BLP noticeboard note
The new subsection titles added recently are undue emphasis on the events they describe.

The first of these sections describes an asset freeze which lasted only a week before it was lifted due to proven non-participation.

The second subsection refers to a mention in a speech, containing an allegation which arose from a cable published by Wikileaks, (which is not admissible as a source on Wikipedia), and where Utemuratov was only mentioned in passing. This speech did not garner significant press coverage, is not mentioned in the articles of any other individuals named, and as such appears targeted. The User who added this, User:Radicalbavin, describes themselves as an “Online Marketing Expert” saying “I am the founder of an online marketing agency that specializes in content writing, brand management and professional Wikipedia editing.” It is highly frustrating that content added by a user making this claim on their User page is not questioned on a BLP.

Ideally these events themselves should be removed, for the reasons above, but at the very least the subheadings emphasising them should be removed. Podsought (talk) 08:41, 10 August 2023 (UTC)