Talk:Bulgaria (ship)

"Larger"
This paragraph doesn't make sense:

"The sinking of Bulgaria is the largest non-military ship disaster in the history of the Russian Federation. Taking Soviet civilian ship disasters into account, the larger loss of life last occurred in 1986 when SS Admiral Nakhimov crashed into a cargo ship."

According to its Wikipedia article, Nakhimov was also a civilian ship at the time of the accident. So that would be the largest civilian ship disaster, yet the first sentenced quoted here says Bulgaria is the largest civilian ship disaster. "Non-military" means "civilian." I can't clean this up because the reference is in Russian. —Diiscool (talk) 16:47, 11 July 2011 (UTC)


 * The person who wrote so in the article means that this (Bulgaria, 2011) is the largest non-military ship disaster in Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991. Calle Widmann (talk) 17:33, 11 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Indeed. To state the obvious, the Russian Federation didn't exist in 1986. The Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic did. Nil Einne (talk) 20:12, 12 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, I now understand what is meant. The word "larger" in the second sentence still bothers me but I'm not going to change it. —Diiscool (talk) 20:16, 12 July 2011 (UTC)


 * (EC with below) Larger sounds appropriate since we are only comparing 2 events. Something like 'Taking Soviet civilian ship disasters into account, the sinking of the SS Admiral Nakhimov in 1986 resulted in a larger loss of life' or something similar changes the flow if that's you concern.
 * But anyway it was changed here . I don't know if I'd really agree with the change. Its homeport at the time was evidentally Odessa of the Ukrainian SSR and it sailed to Batumi of the Georgian SSR. It was owned by the Black Sea Steamship Company which was evidentally of the Ukrainian SSR . Most of the passengers were Ukrainian. The inquiry took place at Odessa. The sinking itself did happen in the Russian SSR (having left Novorossiysk on route to Sochi). But all in all, it seems to me calling the earlier SS Admiral Nakhimov sinking a Russian non-military ship disaster is a little simplistic, probably why the source (I presume) made the distinction.
 * But I can't really be bothered discussing it further so not going to try and change it myself. Nil Einne (talk) 21:58, 12 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, that's why "the Russian Federation" was explicitly used. The wording could be better, of course, yet after corrections, it is somewhat ambiguous. "The sinking of Bulgaria is the largest Russian non-military ship disaster since 1986" <-- technically speaking you cannot call any ships (or aircraft etc) Russian in between the formation and dissolution of the SU. In a similar way, one would call a ship British, not English.Senseiich (talk) 21:52, 12 July 2011 (UTC)


 * As well, if estimates are correct, the final confirmed death toll may in theory rise above 118, which would make it the largest maritime disaster in history of modern Russia (or more correctly, the Russian Federation), be it military or civilian vessel. Senseiich (talk) 22:10, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Stuff
http://www.mchs.gov.ru/eng/hotline/detail.php?ID=423261 is supposed to work, but it 404s...

On the main English page (http://www.mchs.gov.ru/eng/ http://www.webcitation.org/607IDzCCd) the accompanying text says "Telephone "hotline" for updating current situation and lists of rescued and injured during the wreck of the MV "Bulgaria" - 8 (843) 227-46-56"

The Russian homepage (http://www.mchs.gov.ru/ http://www.webcitation.org/607Hyyhcd) has a link that works Text is "Телефон "горячей линии" для уточнения текущей обстановки и списков спасенных и пострадавших при аварии теплохода "Булгария" - 8 (843) 227-46-56" WhisperToMe (talk) 06:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Name
Was the Soviet Union name "Ukraina" or "Ukraine". The infobox does not match information in article.--EdwardZhao (talk) 12:43, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * "Ukraina" is a transliteration. "Ukraine" is a translation.--Toddy1 (talk) 15:12, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Numbers
A lot of confusion over numbers even after couple of days since the sinking. Since some (estimated at 25 by EMERCOM) passengers were "unregistered" i.e. did not buy a cruise ticket (and became uninsured, by the way) the total number is not really yet known. As well, some who bought a ticket did not actually use it. There's also a lot of conflicting claims in regards to total rated capacity of the boat (as 233 which is stated in the infobox is not correct. Capacity was rated down at some point, due to a rebuild or tougher regulations, for instance). EMERCOM website states capacity at 140, most likely implying passenger number only (but not specifically stating so). Number of all persons aboard before the disaster varies from 195 to 209, so the final number is still to be officially confirmed. Senseiich (talk) 22:24, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Also some useful links in Russian with some detailed info, from respectable sources. Events timeline; Tatarstan branch of EMERCOM which publishes updates on passenger and crew members list etc.Senseiich (talk) 22:29, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Total engine power
Hi there! 273 kilowatts is not enough power for 11,1 knots in a ship of this size. I assume, each engine has 273 kW. Brgds, --SteKrueBe (talk) 01:27, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * see riverships.ru --SteKrueBe (talk) 14:47, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/11/russian-river-boat-disaster-deaths
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 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://en.beta.rian.ru/russia/20110711/165136343.html
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