Talk:Bullet time/Archive 1

What about "alone In The Dark, 2005?
This predates the other movie examples. The DVD interviews even use the term "Bullet Time" long before the guys from "the Matrix" claimed it as their own. Just Google "Alone in the Dark" and Bullet Time. Yet it has no mention here at all. Yes it's basic, but it was one of the first (if not the first) major movie (I know, it's a relative term) to use the effect - and the first to call the effect by the term "Bullet Time". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.94.122.6 (talk) 16:34, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Two definitions of "bullet time"
Colloquially, "bullet time" refers not to the cinematic technique, but superhuman reflexes -- the ability to see, react to and dodge high-speed attacks with precision. Yes, it's colloquial, but this definition of "bullet time" so thoroughly dominates the lexicon I wonder why it was omitted entirely. 66.202.165.154 (talk) 13:49, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Does Blade Really Count?
If we're talking about camera techniques here, then the example given for the first movie isn't really "Bullet Time" per se, it's merely just a slow-mo shot of Frost with some CGI bullets, as opposed to panning the cameras around him WHILE he's in slow-mo. As many others have said, the Matrix wasn't the first to use this technique, but I don't think the first Blade movie ever used the technique.

For that matter, why are the other two Blade movies listed in the main article as opposed to the examples section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.148.81.42 (talk) 08:40, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

PATHETIC
The hyperlinking of "California" is a typical example of Wikipedia's tendency to link stupidly and irrelevantly. Most annoying and stupid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.93.10.238 (talk) 19:28, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Should be an entry on Camera Arrays
I think the emphasis in this entry is screwed up. What's interesting here is the technology, the camera array, which was invented recently, mid-90's, by a guy named Dayton Taylor. There was a big article in Scientific American about camera arrays at the time of their invention. The Sci. Am. article was titled "Pictures Worth a Thousand Cameras". Anyway, I think that in the wiki entry primacy should be given to the term "camera array" rather than "bullet time", which I believe is just a term the cinematographers of The Matrix used on set to refer to camera array shots. Maybe there could be a an auxiliary entry about bullet time in pop culture or something.
 * Surely this is a page about bullet time, not camera arrays ? Multilens cameras and multicamera video set ups have been around since long before The Matrix, despite Dayton Taylor "inventing" a commercial system. Why don't you give some real references ? For example, in 1854 a camera array was devised by Andre Adolphe Disderi according to other cool things have been done in Space-time video, for example super-resolution and video completion, e.g. ; this is the real parent subject of "bullet time". Kegon (talk) 14:31, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Crashing problems in Safari
I'm not sure if this is the right place to write about this, but loading this page in Safari makes the browser crash. I'm not sure why, might possibly be an issue with the gif animation. 213.64.33.21 12:34, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Bullet time v. time-slicing
I'm having trouble understanding how bullet-time is different from the time-slice system used in The Matrix. I suspect it's the same but haven't been keeping up with it. If it is the same, the article is incorrect in its "probably" part; q.v. Talk:The Matrix or google "time-slice", Macmillan, Josephine, etc.. Koyaanis Qatsi 23:32 26 May 2003 (UTC)

I believe the difference is that bullet time involves bullets, and time splicing does not.

Take, for example, at the start of the movie, where Trinity jumps up to perform a kick on the SWAT/Cop (can't remember what he was), and the camera rotates as time stops...

That, or the nmae change is a trademark issue.

First use
the first actual conceptual appearance of bullet time is in the begining of the speed racer cartoons, where speed racer jumps of the vehicle. check this fact.

also "the campanile movie" was made by Paul Debevec, not the other guy -User:Verbose

Matrix Template
Does   really belong in this article? The article is about something featured in The Matrix, not directly relating to it.

Seconded Thirded Forthded

Requested move (closed)

 * Talk:Bullet-time - Bullet-time → Bullet time - The hyphenated version of the term is an adjective; needs to be moved in order to be a noun.
 * Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation and sign your vote with ~ 


 * Support - For the reason given above. --Yath 22:39, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Support - And make 'bullet-time' a redirect. --alfakim 15:44, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I went ahead and moved the page. Jumped the gun a bit (4 days instead of 5), but it was pretty clear-cut IMHO. --Yath 29 June 2005 21:35 (UTC)

vote: no use of a privately owned term to define a common practice
flo-mo is essentially "enhanced arc and tracking"

check this

Arc Shot A simple photographic procedure in which the subject being photographed is circled by the camera.

http://video.barnesandnoble.com/search/glossary.asp?cat=1005873&TRM=1006323 http://www.fotosearch.com/THK725/v0021050/

BUF?!
 [...] and through view-morphing techniques pioneered by the company BUF in music videos by Michel Gondry and commercials for, among others, The Gap.

What does BUF = British Union of Fascists have to do with it? --Abdull 10:57, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Check out http://www.buf.com for the answer. BUF != British Union of Fascists

'''Nothing! BUF, as mentioned here is this: http://buf.fr/ C3f59 (talk)''' —Preceding undated comment added 03:24, 26 December 2010 (UTC).

Other movies?
What about other movies that utilise this technique? All the article lists is the parodies. Final Fantasy 7: Advent Children used this technique quite a bit, although it is a bit different because it's all CG.

I think the effect in Advent Childrent wouldnt be classified as Bullet Time. for the fact the camera and characters all slow down. In reality this could simply be done by overcranking. --Cryotwin 08:51, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Don't forget the movie House of the Dead. It used a system with a camera that actually spun around the actors on a highspeed motor while they were on an elevated platform to achieve the effect.


 * On the Swedish version of the page, the movie "Kill and Kill again" from 1981 is mentioned as the first real use of the effect, but its not included at all on the English page?

217.208.225.55 (talk) 11:37, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Other Videogames
The somewhat unsuccessful videogames Blinx and Blinx 2 (time controls were not specifically mentioned in their articles)also featured a time stop ability, which allowed the player to move freely while the in game environment stopped. A noteworthy effect is while moving through water the water became displaced and left an empty path, often used to further a goal. The game also used other temporal controls such as rewind, fast forward, and record. Record allowed you to record actions, which would then rewind to when you activated record, allowing you to play along side the recorded actions.

I also am missing Max Payne (the first and not part 2)?

_Other notable games should probably include Viewtiful Joe where entering bullet time is vital for various puzzle and gameplay mechanisms, like running though the blades of a helicopter. Black also slows down the passage of time when the character is critically wounded, allowing the player to recover from seemingly overwhelming positions._

Would the Sands of Time ability from Prince_of_persia_the_sands_of_time qualify? Time is slowed while the prince reacts at normal speed.

Moved text from The Matrix
The following text appeared in the article for The Matrix, but as it's related more to the history of the effect rather than how it was applied in that film, I think it's more appropriate here. But I'm not sure which is the best place to put it in this article, so I'll store it here for now.


 * In his online resume at timeslicefilms.com, freelance photographer Tim MacMillan claims to have pioneered by the mid-eighties "a way of freezing apparent time in a motion-picture tracking shot by means of multiple apertures registered to the frames of motion-picture film." The work of Harold Edgerton, to whom Macmillan pays homage in one exhibition, could be considered a yet earlier precedent.

Also, last month's issue of Empire featured a comment by John Gaeta on bullet time, in which he refers to Michael Gondry and other influences, which I think would be relevant. I'll type it up and add it to the article soon...

Also, in some cases I think the Visual effects section of The Matrix article does a better job of explaining the bullet time effect (and the differences between that and "frozen" time-slice photography) than this article does. (Some of it seems to be written by the man himself!) So does anyone want to incorporate some of that section into this article? --Nick RTalk 18:33, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Why was i redirected?
Why, when i searched for Time-slice photography, was i redirected to Bullet time, when both have sperate copy-write? I can vouch for Tim MacMillian's work as i remember seeing his work in a BBC natural history programe that pre-dates the Matrix film.


 * Yup, in fact the program is mentioned in the article, and I've also see it. I guess it's because the two are very similar. See above for a similar complaint. Dessydes

Huh? aka The Omen
The intro says that bullet time is pretty much just slowing something down enough so you would be able to see what is happening clearly when normally you wouldn't. If this is bullet time then it was used in the original Omen when Gregory Peck is shot by the cops.

Michael Ninn: Perfect
Bullet time was also apparently used in the movie: Perfect, by director Michael Ninn. It is a pornographic film. Dessydes

'concept introduced in recent films' Huh?
I guess I'm unqualified to edit this article since I saw nothing at all original about The Matrix... And now I find out "bullet time" is another one of its supposed innovations... How is this radical new concept of "bullet time" (i.e. slow-motion) a new technique when it's been around since the beginning of cinema? Just off the top of my head, the first example I think of is Kato attacking Inspector Clouseau at his home... And what about Gilligan inside the hot air balloon? Or Seven Samurai? Or the pillow-fight in Zéro de Conduite... Or Georges Méliès for that matter... Sure, mention that some people seem to think it's something new, but then point out the real history behind the technique, which goes back way, way before those ancient classics, The Matrix and Speed Racer. --Rizzleboffin 22:21, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * A couple other classic 'bullet time' examples come to mind: Kwai Chang Caine in Kung Fu, and, to my mind, the classic example of 'bullet time'-- the scene where Laurel leaves the gas running in the oven, then comes into the living room and sits down with a pipe reading the paper. Hardy walks into the kitchen with a lighted match, after an explosion he then comes sailing back through the door, across the living room in slow motion (or bullet time, if you prefer), while Laurel's chair, also in bullet-time, raises up off the floor then plops him down, with a confused look on his face. OK, so it wasn't done digitally. Still hilarious, classic bullet-time. --Rizzleboffin 01:03, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Added paragraph on The Adventures of Baron Munchausen
...which has one of the most extended, and humorous, bullet time sequences ever filmed.

And what of the original Superman movie? I seem to recall the Man of Steel running down a missile in that one...

--EngineerScotty 22:57, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * There was no perceivable slowing down of time while Superman caught up with the missile. Both Superman and the missile were in the air. For all we know it all happened in real time, with both Superman and the missile flying really fast. Smallville did feature bullet time sequences when Clark used his super-speed, on the other hand. 82.92.119.11 22:09, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

History of the term
When was the term "bullet time" first used? The first time I remember hearing it was in Max Payne. And if 3D Realms held the rights to the term originally, that would seem to support the idea that they came up with it. Roberthoff82 04:19, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I could've sworn that the developers/publishers of Max Payne had the trademark to Bullet-Time(tm) Takua108 12:06, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

First music video?
The article mentions Bjork's video as the first, but then apparently lists an earlier Suede video. Can someone fix this and/or explain what's going on? --88.111.33.202 14:08, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

IIRC, there was some music video called "Underwater Love" by some Brazilian band in the early 90's that uses bullet time, too. --84.44.209.0 13:14, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

"Underwater Love" was by Smoke City, released in 1997, and directed by Jack Johnson and Chris and Emmett Malloy. --66.31.41.64 (talk) 04:46, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Mention of QuicktimeVR
Should there be a reference to Quicktime VR? From the first Demos QuicktimeVR showed objects in motion captured with multiple cameras (I remember clearly a basketball player in mid-jump, around which you could rotate), either to stop the motion mid-move or to have it move very slowly while the camera view changed (with the same process of using multiple cameras and joining the images). This was back in ~1995 so maybe it should warrant a mention. Even though not many people used it for this I'm sure more than one took the idea from seeing what could be done (I know I did)

Needs photo of equipment
This article needs a photo or maybe diagram of the equipment used to accomplish the in-camera part of the effect. I recall seeing the Matrix setup in CineFX at the time: an arcing track with numerous still cameras and with motion picture cameras at, I think, both ends. --Tysto 17:45, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Need For Speed Most Wanted
Someone should mention the speedbreaker in need for speed most wanted.--Taida 16:03, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Images
That CG image of Neo from the matrix shouldn't really be there, and one still is sufficient. Bullet time animated gifs would be more appropriate, and perhaps a still from Max Payne or another video game with bullet time, showing what the bullet time looks like, not just something random. Gmip 15:40, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Buffalo '66
According to the article, the bullet time effect in Buffalo '66 is a parody of The Matrix. This, however, cannot be true, as Buffalo '66 was released one year prior to The Matrix, and thus, the former should be in the "early applications" list of the article, rather than later. 71.240.204.224 16:59, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Speedracer flowmo.gif
Image:Speedracer flowmo.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Fair use rationale for Image:Matrix neorealvcg smaller.gif
Image:Matrix neorealvcg smaller.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 14:41, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Matrix superpunchpending.gif
Image:Matrix superpunchpending.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 14:43, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Universal Capture
I consider myself an expert on image processing, video processing and computer vision. I've never heard of this term "universal capture". I think it hints at what is known as multiview video and omnidirectional video (for a converging camera configuration). I removed the following paragraph: "More recent variations include the application of Universal Capture (multi cam high definition performance capture applying photo- and stereo-grammetric image processing for extracting a subject's form and texture over time), interwoven sports/live event broadcast camera arrays more favorable to 'replay' and live orbit presentations, and other techniques utilizing QTVR and Motion VR. Some new approaches attempt to three-dimensionally capture and simulate real-world events so that a true virtual camera can be used to show this event from limitless or 'God's Eye' perspectives (as in a virtual reality simulation)." as it seems to have been written by someone who has a confused understanding of the technology. For example, I have never heard of "stereo-grammetric image processing" yet I have been working in the 3D display industry for several years. In view synthesis, I have never heard this expression "God's Eye perspective" - why bring religion into it. Kegon (talk) 06:03, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Schrek
The Scene you mentioned, is nearly 1:1 to that scene in "The Matrix"! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.89.23.76 (talk) 18:23, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
 * My understanding was that the scene in Shrek was a parody of The Matrix, but that was just my feeling when watching it. Kegon (talk) 06:12, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Merlin
I think the 1998 TV movie "Merlin" used this technique, pre-Matrix, when it was recognizable only from The Gap ads. --131.193.179.146 (talk) 07:16, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Critical analysis
A journal article about the topic... feel free to look it up and integrate its content into the Wikipedia article. — Erik (talk • contrib) - 06:16, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Tim Macmillan
Tim Macmillan claims to have developed the technique, which he calls Time-splicing, in 1980 while he was studying his BA at the Bath Academy of Art. A brief chronology of his own use of the technology can be found here: http://www.timeslicefilms.com/cameras.shtml

I didn't want to edit this on the main page because I didn't have time to search for independent verification of Macmillan's claims, however they seem legit so I hope the page can be updated. I also vote for calling it "time-splice" instead of "bullet time." kerim (talk) 06:01, 16 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It is amazing to me that no more credit is given to Tim MacMillan; he is one of the very first, if not the first real timeslicing cinematographer using 16mm filmmaterial, doing a real 360 degrees. Tim gave a show with his 16mm films in the "Fransche Zaal" (French Room) at the Dutch Filmmuseum ( Now, EYE The New Filmmuseum, Amsterdam, Netherlands). I was present there. It was way back so I do not remember the dates. I had a quick peek at his site http://www.timeslicefilms.com/, but nothing can be found about his early work there, unfortunately.


 * By the way to describe this special art of film making as "Bullit time" seems very wrong to me. For the moment the far better term seems to me "time slicing". "Bullit time" is just time slicing with bullets, isn't it? After all you can slice all "time" with this technique. Take a shower and have someone time slice that, much more healthy by the way. "Bullit time", my foot! Sorry, but have no time to update the article in this respect, actually it a whole rewrite would benefit this article.


 * N.B.1. Oh, a film splicer is for splicing pieces of film together with tape or glue, so calling this specific process "time splicing" seems not a good idea to me.
 * N.B.2. The link here above: http://www.timeslicefilms.com/cameras.shtml is dead.CustodianAtEYE (talk) 22:22, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Carlier
I thought the inventor was the artist Emmanuel Carlier, in the first half of the 90's ?! See :  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.198.134.199 (talk) 18:28, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Resident Evil 4
There is a scene in this game where Leon and ada are fighting and Ada kicks a knife from Leons hand in bullet time. That seems mentionable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.249.233.167 (talk) 01:38, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Full Contact
Wasn't the real first time bullet time was used in Ringo Lam's Full Conact in 1993? When Chow Yun-Fat shoots a bullet and the camera follows it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.141.155.179 (talk) 18:35, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Propose to re-write
Hi to anyone out there. I'm proposing to try to redo some of the article, but I'm posting here to give anyone who cares to the chance to comment.

One important question, I think, is whether bullet time is a primarily film-making technique (ie one that necessary involves photographing the real world), or whether it is more generally an animation technique. I suspect that this may be a matter of point of view. It was originally coined as a film-making term, but it is now commonly - and therefore legitimately - used with reference to computer games. The WP thing to do is recognise both points-of-view as legitimate.

Secondly, I think there is a distinction to be made between bullet time and Tim Macmillan's "time slice" technique, mentioned above. The two are closely related, but I think the difference is that time slice uses multiple aparatures similtaneously (these are then animated to create the impresion of a viewpoint moving around an object or scene "frozen in time"), whereas bullet time uses aparatures which are set up sequentially with time-delays (these are then animated to create the impression of a viewpoint moving around an object or scene which is in motion).

The issue of what the first bullet time film was is probably quite difficult. Both Tim Macmillan and Michel Gondry seem to have developed the technique in 1994, but it is not clear who was first. Gondry then developed the technique, and directed an ad for Smirnoff in 1997/8, which could be seen as the first full demonstration of it.

Cheers. --89.242.133.153 (talk) 18:51, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

F.E.A.R.
F.E.A.R. uses bullet time extensively although in that game it is called reflex time. I think this should be added. Sheaton319 (talk) 05:29, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Copyright Rhetoric?
I read this whole article and it comes across like some type of justification that the maker's of 'The Matrix' own the 'Bullet Time Copyright'. It doesn't really give clear information, it just keeps regurgitating the relationship between 'Bullet Time' and 'The Matrix' - over and over and over and over and over. Certainly needs an unbiased re-write. Take it for what you will. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Overcast451 (talk • contribs) 15:19, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Previous use in 99' TV Ad.
It is difficult to get exact information on this, but I remember seeing this in a TV ad for the Armée de Terre (the french Army) in France in 99, before The Matrix hit the Theatres. It can be viewed here: http://www.ina.fr/pub/divers/video/PUB1230210138/armee-de-terre-99-version-45-secondes.fr.html

Unfortunately, it is unknown if this happened independently to The Matrix. Even though this was on air before the movie was out, it is possible that the advertising agency was influenced by seeing the trailers. Nevertheless, i think a mention of this ad is due! C3f59 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:46, 26 December 2010 (UTC).

Term comes from Max Payne
The term "Bullet Time" was originally coined to describe the slow-motion effect used for gameplay purposes in the game Max Payne. It's also the first time the term was registered as a trademark, by Apogee. The use of the term "Bullet Time" to describe the camera effects made popular in the Matrix movies is different from just slowing down time in that the viewpoint's position changes over time as well. This technique sounds like it should be described in a more technical term and not the marketing term "Bullet Time". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.155.193.180 (talk) 05:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Go ahead and add it in then! This article has multiple issues; I don't understand why people keep posting on the Talk page complaining about things when they should just do it and add it in with a source. - M0rphzone (talk) 02:00, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Outside of wikis, it's entirely normal to suggest corrections to the publisher of a work. Correcting the work itself is reserved for the "owner". Of course experienced Wikipedians understand how and when to edit any article -- but not everyone is there!

205.178.21.237 (talk) 04:29, 9 April 2012 (UTC)