Talk:Bulletin board system/Archive 1

Links to BBSs
Do not add a link to a single BBS in the external links section. It's analogous to linking to your home page from a "Web Site" article because your home page is a web site. External links should be *about* BBSs. --Real Deuce (talk) 18:28, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

History is Wrong
This history starts too late. The first BBS, ALOHA.net, was created at the University of Hawaii in 1972. See the article entitled "Can We Know Everything?" in the April 2006 issue of California, the University of California Alumni Association's monthly magazine. As a planning consultant working in Hawaii in the early 1980's, we used this BBS extensively to create projects. At that time it was very difficult for a Macintosh user to exchange files with PC users, but the BBS made it possible. This history starts too late. The first BBS, ALOHA.net, was created at the University of Hawaii in1972. See the article entitled "Can We Know Everything?" in the April 2006 issue of California, the University of California Alumni Association's monthly magazine. As a planning consultant working in Hawaii in the early 1980's, we used this BBS extensively to create projects. At that time it was very difficult for a Macintosh user to exchange files with PC users, but the BBS made it possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.187.178.3 (talk) 12:59, 16 June 2013 (UTC)


 * ALOHAnet was a networking protocol, not an online service. Any communications is carried was based on other systems, like existing email. I am unaware of any BBS-like functionality running on ALOHAnet, but even if such a thing existed, it wouldn't be ALOHAnet. The article mentioned above, from UCal, doesn't even mention ALOHA at all, nor BBS's or anything similar - its about search engines. Maury Markowitz (talk) 14:08, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

KOM-systems
I think it would be nice if the article could cover the KOM-systems used in Scandinavia. These systems have an interface somewhat resembling a UNIX-shell, and integrate message boards with a chat-system similar to IRC. While not easy for beginners to use, such systems remain in use today and are actively developed while BBS:es in other parts of the world are declining.

Examples include: LysKOM, LuddKOM, HelsinkiKOM, SklaffKOM, Fabbes BBS and RydKOM.

Filur 13:51, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

BBS vs Internet forum
This article seems to distinguish BBS from Internet forum but is it really so? See 2ch, for example. I would like to merge somehow this to Internet forum but the trouble is the article has a lot of historical parts, which are good. Any though? -- Taku


 * Yes, distinguished in that although Arpanet existed at the time, no or few "individuals" could communicate other than by visits, voice, the post office, or "bulletin boards" such as announcement boards, the common flyers tacked up at university campuses, etc.

WardXmodem (talk) 05:24, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

BBS is a really old concept. If I understand correctly, they weren't even connected to the internet proper. Rather, you dialed up an individual BBS with your modem. I think it's a very valuable distinction, definitely needing a separate page.

By the way, is 2ch a real BBS? It looks like it actually isn't. It certainly isn't if it is actually web-based. Evercat 01:30, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Yes, strictly speaking I think this article ought to cover only those with a command-line interface. I'm not familiar with 2ch but if it's web-based it probably belongs in a different article. - Hephaestos 16:19, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)

In Japanese, BBS means "Internet forum", but I haven't seen the term used in this way outside of Japanese contexts. The dial-up definition is older and more standard in English so I would be inclined to prefer it. I've changed the article to have "(primarily in Japan)" in the sentence about Internet forums; if this isn't a Japan-specific usage feel free to fix it. DopefishJustin 05:43, Apr 9, 2004 (UTC) See, the eariliest dial-in BBSes let users do the same sorts of things they would do with a regular physical bulletin board (e.g. posting messages for later users to read.) The name stuck, even as a wide array of new features were introduced to such systems (e.g. file transfers, door games, access to inter-BBS e-mail and discussion networks) meaning that the original metaphor didn't work so well any more. From there, the name quickly came to apply to any sort of computer system you would dial into with a modem and use interactively with a terminal (or terminal emulator). In the mid-1990's, as web forums begin to reach a wide audience in North America, I began to hear such forums referred to as BBSes, primarily by people who were not familiar with the interactive terminal dial-in system meaing that "BBS" had acquired, but who meant to make an analogy with physical bulletin boards. So, would this be considered a new separate meaning of the term? Or just an extension of the same meaning? --rakslice 08:40, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * I think the key issue is that old-style phone line BBS's were typically local. Most of them had regular get togethers and the users knew each other in an offline context. That's obviously not true of internet forums. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.125.110.223 (talk) 21:05, 18 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The FIRST BBS (CBBS/Chicago) (though if the Hawaii people actually had a dial-in system and THEY called it a bulletin board system, I relinquish my claim, it thus becoming an independently, but identically-named service).  "Local" is relevant in that local phone calls were cheaper, but I can say, it was quite a thrill to see people "dialing in" from such places as New Zealand, etc.  In those very very early days, many countries outside of the US had rather severe restrictions resulting in few individuals ("Fellow hobbyists") to own their own modems, so most callers were US-based.  Line quality was also a factor.

WardXmodem (talk) 05:24, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

strange
here in this article i saw smth...

though it's large, i don't think those who don't use Chinese can understand its content.

Flora 05:16, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I worked for the company that made MBBS (aka The Major BBS) and I would say that about 75% of the customers ran commercial porn BBSs, so I would take issue with the statement that BBS's were usually run by hobbiests.
 * I think commercial BBSes like MBBS probably had a higher percentage of porn customers, but there were many hobbyists running Telegard, Renegade, etc. Maybe the article shouldn't use the term "most," because it's true that porn and other pay BBSes were a big chunk of the BBS market. Rhobite 16:27, Jul 22, 2004 (UTC)
 * There where many more hobbyist running mail, doors and files then there where pay sites. MBBS was a drop in the bucket to all BBS software that was on scene in the 80's and 90's. --Buster 17:01, Jul 22, 2004 (UTC)
 * I don't know if I agree with you. I remember a LOT of PCBoard and Citadel BBSs that had pay areas and porn too. I called a lot of pirate boards myself. I don't know if you can say that hobbyist boards outnumbered other boards by far. Rhobite 17:14, Jul 22, 2004 (UTC)
 * I will have to find an old BBS List and scan it in. I'm talking numbers like 1 in 10 might have been a paysite. Of course, almost all of them solicited for donations. Brings back a lot good memorys. --Buster 18:08, Jul 22, 2004 (UTC)
 * I'm sure a lot of national, commercial BBSs were pay and contained porn and/or warez (which is probably why they appealed to a national audience), but nearly all of the local BBSs I called back in the day were free, hobbiest boards. I think the 1 in 10 statistic mentioned by Buster might be accurate for my area too, and of the locals that were pay, most also had free content for non-subscribers. --Dan Hendricks 03:28, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Check out, that may have what you're looking for. Yeah, it sure does bring back memories. Rhobite 18:25, Jul 22, 2004 (UTC)

Local phenomenon ?
''The BBS was also a local phenomenon, as one had to dial into a BBS with a phone line and would have to pay long distance charges for a BBS out of the local area. Thus, many of a BBS's users lived in the same area and it was common for a BBS to hold a BBS Meet, where all of the users would gather and meet face to face.''

Someone should edit this text. Free local rates is/

BBS was often but not only a local phenomenon. BBS was a national and international phenomenon for those with avid interest combined with clever telephony skills or petty cash. BBS enthusiasts accessed files from and chatted with people from national areas in several ways: he or she payed long-distance fees to access a national BBS, grabbed files (and possibly talked on the chat forum), hosted the files for local diallers; he or she phreaked free calls instead of payed for long-distance, and then followed the above procedure; he or she gained access to to PCs hosted in perimeter municaplities zones that had cross-over local boundaries. The first two procedures introduced international material and individuals to the US BBS scence. The latter may have been orchestrated efforts at publishing files within a greater BBS network, but may have also been an unintentional consequence of cross-over local telephone boundaries. BBS enthusiasts interested in the nationally sourced files and chats would then meet face to face in annual meetings. Some meetings frequented by US enthusiasts were held in Europe. Others not interested or unaware of the national component participated in a national and possibly international phenomenon by reading text files or using (executing) binary files of non-local origin. A BBS enthusiast reading a non-locally produced BBS 'zine would have participated in a national movement. The Internet, for example, is considered a international phenomenon by merit of reading or using material of international origin not by meeting international people.

very true but i think most users had a local bbs they considered 'home'.

8-bit era
It would be a good idea to capture some of the history of BBSes before, oh, say, 1990 or so. CP/M was an important operating system in the early days and RCP/M ("Remote") was a fairly standardized way to implement a BBS, though this didn't include the message base interface. Quality of the software of early systems varied enormously - it was part of the home computer experience for many larval hackers to write some BASIC code that would answer the phone and let their buddies leave messages. There were many Apple IIs and Commodore-64s sitting in bedrooms waiting for phone calls in the mid-80's. It's also important to stress that BBSes were not the same as Internet. Particulary well-organized BBS SYSOPs might be part of a "network" for exchange of data and messages, usually by making calls at night when long distance rates were lower. This worked a little more like the early days of UUCP than what we know as the Internet today. --Wtshymanski 14:38, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I want a dial-up MO-DEM now..
Yeah man, that'd be so badass to dial into a BBS with a mo-dem.. that would rule..i'd love that.. so old school.. no school like old school. i wonder what the old bbs was like.. *sigh* --Cyberman 02:24, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It was glorious, Cyberman. To edit your own connection settings and hear that trilling, staticky connection sound was a pleasure worth waiting for, even at 300 baud. Depending on your connection speed, you might be able to read as fast or faster than the text as it appeared on the screen. Then you could converse in different "rooms" under whatever alias you chose. I was Radioactive Pillbug when I dialed into Bantoom at 2400 bps. I used a cracked terminal program which was supposed to cost a thousand bucks or something for banks and corporations. There were rooms for discussion of Edgar Rice Burroughs' works, NASCAR racing, and favorite lyrics, etc. There were doors for TradeWars 2002 and Voting. My cousins and their friends used the board, too. If I'm not mistaken, my aunt and uncle met on that board. We would have MUPTs, or "Modem Users' Pizza Things" where we'd meet somewhere and eat. We also had LazerTag on Monday nights. Glorious. --BJH 08:14 PDT, 3 Apr 2006

As BJH said, it was glorious. Unlike today's fast download speeds, there were no such words as 'gigabyte' or 'gigahertz', or 'DVD-ROM', or 'flatscreen'. The largest program *anyone* would want to download was a very conservative 4 or 5 megabytes, and *anything* with speech or any kind of video in it was a *big* thing. We used to measure speed in 'baud', with a 14400 baud modem being top-of-the-line. It was, as I recall, the 'geek era', where anyone that owned a computer was a hopeless loser and a 'nerd' (which is a title I'm now proud to embrace as part of my computer heritage). I was seven when I saw my first computer, and the largest hard-disks that existed then were 25 and 50 megabytes in capacity, and it didn't seem we'd *ever* have a game big enough to totally fill one. Now...now we have games that would fill *dozens* of them.... DarkMasterBob 09:35, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

It was a far different animal from the internet. The emphasis was definitely on the local--I actually met my future wife at a BBS meet in 1994. BBSes provided news service, games, a community. Multi-line systems offered the first chat boards, and the ones without multi-lines... well, you spent a lot of time on redial. I don't regret the coming of the internet at all, but I did very much enjoy the BBS era. Make no mistake--it was the internet which ended it. Neopeius 13:37, 28 July 2006 (UTC) http://www.uniecom.com/Products/index.htm


 * it's not ended, it's just waiting for 1980s nostalgia to come around —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.125.110.223 (talk) 21:09, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Best computers for BBSing back in the day?
What was the best home computer to connect to a BBS in 1978 to 1985 and why? What was the best to do it from 1985 to 1995 and why? This would be interesting points to cover in this article.

i disagree. It wasnt about 'the best' computer to connect to a bbs...that viewpoint it pointless, what's important is that bbsing was an import part of the past and the present [influence], socially and technologically.

--Mroblivious1bmf 05:36, 25 December 2005 (UTC)


 * The viewpoint isn't pointless, but the 'best computer' is really not a topic that can be covered adequately here; everyone has their own opinion on 'The Best', and such a discussion would be incredibly POV. Although, I do agree that something regarding the advancement of modem technology, if it's not already in the article, would be appropriate to include. DarkMasterBob 09:41, 21 June 2006 (UTC)


 * There really wasn't 'best' for connecting to BBSes. You could do just fine with pretty much any 8-bit computer. A dumb terminal would do. An 80-column screen often made it easier.--RLent 20:44, 22 September 2006 (UTC)


 * most BBSes were largely dedicated to one system so the question devolves to a comparison of everyone's favorite BBS but, in the 78-85 time period i'd say either Apple II or Commodore 64 and the later idk, PC or Amiga i suppose. the topic is not pointless, as a large part of the traffic of any BBS was devoted to discovering, discussing and advocating the best computer system.


 * the 128 was a much better BBS machine than the 64 - the extra RAM and 80 column screen really helped. —Preceding unsigned comment added by A plague of rainbows (talk • contribs) 20:42, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Removed comment from article
I just removed the following text (apparantly a comment about the article) from the article itself. It is not my own comment. Goingin 09:20, 29 March 2006 (UTC) Quote This history starts too late. The first BBS, ALOHA.net, was created at the University of Hawaii in 1972. See the article entitled "Can We Know Everything?" in the April 2006 issue of California, the University of California Alumni Association's monthly magazine. As a planning consultant working in Hawaii in the early 1980's, we used this BBS extensively to create projects. At that time it was very difficult for a Macintosh user to exchange files with PC users, but the BBS made it possible. Unquote http://www.uniecom.com/Products/index.htm

Contradiction about the 1st BBS
The article states the following:


 * ''Snowed in during The Great Chicago Snowstorm of 1978, Ward Christensen began preliminary work on what would eventually become the first BBS to exist. The first BBS, CBBS, went online on February 16, 1978 in Chicago, Illinois.


 * An earlier Community Memory bulletin board started in 1972 in Berkeley, California, using hardwired terminals located in neighborhoods.''

If CBBS was the first bulletin board system, it doesn't make sense to say that Community Memory BBS was an earlier version of a BBS. We need some clarification here. -- backburner001 15:04, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, the Community Memory article says it was the first, but the CBBS article says nothing but a date. This site, http://www.well.com/~szpak/cm/, has this to say: "Community Memory was the world's first public computerized bulletin board system." along with saying it was started in 1972, but I have been unable so far to find any other resources. It is my position that that section should be edited to say:


 * ''The first bulletin board system was Community Memory, started in 1972 in Berkeley, California, using hardwired terminals located in neighborhoods.


 * ''Snowed in during The Great Chicago Snowstorm of 1978, Ward Christensen began preliminary work on his Computerized Bulletin Board System, or CBBS. CBBS went online on February 16, 1978 in Chicago, Illinois.


 * That will obviously need some work, but I think it's an improvement. Zuwiki 21:17, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Other editors have obviously been making an attempt to clarify which was the first BBS, but the article still appears to contradict itself on the issue. A citation was added with regard to CBBS, which is good. However, another editor identified the Community Memory BBS as a BBS that pre-dates CBBS "in the loose sense of the word" as currently written. We still need clarification on what defines the first BBS and what the "loose sense" of the word really means/how it impacts the discussion of which BBS was the first to exist. Let's continue to clarify this claim. -- backburner001 15:31, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

As an old "SysOp", Circa 1987, to me a BBS implies dial-up public access - IE: anyone could could dial in and connect from their home computer. In the true sense of a "Bulletin Board", it was not locked in someone's basement, it was publicly accessable. Thus, the text might read:
 * ''A notable precursor to the public bulletin board system was Community Memory, started in 1972 in Berkeley, California, using hardwired terminals located in neighborhoods.


 * ''Snowed in during The Great Chicago Snowstorm of 1978, Ward Christensen began preliminary work on his Computerized Bulletin Board System, or CBBS. CBBS went online on February 16, 1978 in Chicago, Illinois. > Insert Text about how it was "dial up" < 15.251.201.70 20:55, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I think this moves in the right direction. I've edited the current article to include this proposed text.  I agree that we should continue to add info on the dial-up component of the first BBSs.  The reference to Christensen provided from this link should also probably be written back into the article. -- backburner001 15:04, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

http://www.uniecom.com/Products/index.htm

Confusing
I just want to say that after reading this article, I am in no means closer to knowing what BBS is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.30.204.75 (talk • contribs)


 * THe main points are stated in the article, but I'll give you the 'nutshell' version: a Bulletin Board System was a computer system designated (via the use of special software) as a 'message board/download center/social hub', and equipped with a device called a 'modem' (modulator/demodulator) that allowed a computer likewise equipped with a modem to 'dial up' and connect to the BBS over analog phone line. For various reasons, a BBS was much slower than today's broadband systems (the modem could only send data as fast as the phone line could transmit), but broadband connections were still another 20 years down the road (for reference, I saw my first dial-up modem when I was seven years old; I'm now 24 and dial-up has only recently started to become truly 'outdated'). DarkMasterBob 09:51, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Date of Snowstorm
There was a blizzard in Chicago in January of 1979, that came to be known as the Blizzard of '79. I personally don't recall a great Snowstorm in 1978. Does anyone?


 * haha, I, Ward Christensen, do SPECIFICALLY, my garage is in the middle of an alley's length, and after shoveling 2 hrs I realized it was coming down faster than I could shovel.  I SPECIFICALLY recall seeing a piece of ice in front of my eyes that was my own iced-up hair!   SO I called in "not coming in today", and got on the phone to call Randy Suess.  I suggested we put up a dial-in system for the club, (like for newsletter articles) but he said that would be "by committee" and just the two of us should do it, he the HW and me the SW.

After some wrangling, I thought of the cork-board-and-push-pin bulletin boards at the local grocery, and patterned -- and named -- CBBS after that - with the message size dictated by the early 16-line 64-column "Video Display Module", of course later expanded to 80 chars and many more lines.

P.S. '79 as stated, was "THE" snowstorm, I claim no more than that the one in '78 was "enough to keep me from going to work" and "thus the first discussion resulting in the creation of CBBS, was done". Before that time, I and others on Arpanet "discussed" connecting to "microcomputers" a lot, but I grew tired of "talk" when I knew I could just "DO", and with Randy's GREAT help - both pressure, and doing all the HW, it came to its first call in two weeks, which no one believed so "we called it a month". haha. WardXmodem (talk) 05:42, 27 August 2010 (UTC) --''

To Clarify the Confusing

In simple terms a "BBS" was someone's personal computer,they would make it available to other people via the phone line (a mini internet you might say). They would advertise their BBS in the newspaper, some were free some would charge, you would dial in with a very slow modem and connect to their computer, download hardware drivers, pictures, shareware games and programs. Some also had chat rooms very much like today.


 * virtually no bbses were advertised in the newspaper. it was mainly word of mouth and #s published on other boards. and the main area of most bbs was just that, the message board. you usually had to post or do something special to get files access


 * Some guy even published a BOOK of BBS #'s, after asking if I could be listed, and I basically said "NO WAY", that such things were WAY too dynamic to be "in print" beyond the volatility of a newspaper or computer club newsletter.  WELL, I don't know if he specifically "tried to get even" or not, but my HOME # became published as a BBS, and I kept answering only to hear "bee boo bee boo", and I finally got someone on the other end to pick up, and they said a Commodore magazine had published it (from unknown source).      (Just interesting): One BBS I saw listed on CBBS (I checked out all postings of "new numbers") turned out to be a kid answering the home phone, if you asked for the BBS, he would connect the modem (or push the handset into the acoustic coupler).  His parents must have loved him (Or he was rich and has his own - rare in those days - phone #. WardXmodem (talk) 05:42, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

contradictions
"oh, cbbs WAS the first bbs, this is common knowledge."

Okay.. so now it says the entry contradicts itself.. i google "first bbs".. and others... And i see strong support for community knowledge AND CBBS being the first bbs [archive.org entry]

let's compromise and say that community bbs was the first bbs in the loose sense of the word (network of computers where people would post msgs], cbbs was the first implimented, structured bbs that is the common, widespread definition of the bbs as we know it.. past+present.

really, this is an underground subculture of a sort, it isn't like most subjects where you can actually look it up in a text book. Mroblivious1bmf 19:31, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

- oblivious

216.58.18.149 put the below in the article (I moved it in here). Haakon 23:17, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

About the contradiction- CBBS was the first bulletin board BBS was the bulletin board in its beta version (they called it a Bulletin Board System But that sounded too generic so CBBS took its place) because BBS was not released before CBBS was, CBBS was counted to be the first because of the fact that people at that time had no idea BBS existed therefore it was recorded that CBBS was the first bulletin board but in reality it is not.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.58.18.149 (talk • contribs)

First BBS
Someone should include some information on the first BBS. The history of the computer based Bulletin Board System can be traced back to Chicago, IL in 1978 to Ward Christensen, who wrote the first BBS system —Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.102.133.216 (talk • contribs)


 * ?? This is already in the article... --ozzmosis 14:16, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

It seems to me that the main difference between Cbbs, and Community Memmory( if i'm reading this page correctly) is that Community Memmory was a fixed number of terminals connected together, and that Cbbs was the first BBS to be dialed into by anyone. This may be incorrect, but thats what I got from the information. -Phillip p

deleting for the sake of deleting
well, first, i don't think you can actually remove these links without checking them out.. you obviously havent. in addition, i think you are just making a judgement on the surface about the article. regarding your example, the myspace site is a source of new bbs news and links to various softwares. even though you have no interest in this subject [aside from editing wikipedia], please take into consideration that several people who visit this article will benefit from its content. thank you, Darren palmer 21:24, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, I did check out all the sites before I removed them, and I was unimpressed with their usefulness to readers of an encyclopedia. The MySpace site is exactly that - a MySpace site of questionable importance.  WP:EL clearly states that links to MySpace sites should be avoided, unless necessitated by the article (i.e. the article is about MySpace).  WP is not a web directory - the number of WP:EL should be kept to a minimum, and include only non-commercial links that are of historical importance and are WP:RS.  How is a downloadable file repository any of these things? Finally, please refrain from making assumptions of of my actions/motives/thoughts, and comment on the content, not the contributor. Leuko 21:46, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Apple's role in the 1980's
The word "Apple" doesn't appear in this document, and that's just negligent. The Apple ][ was for many years the premier platform on which the vast majorities of BBSs operated. In 1982 the BBS scene was booming, and each board commonly had text files of BBS's around the nation, a huge percentage of them being Apple user groups of one form or another. The "warez" scene sprouted out of this movement as well. There were even some primative precursors to HTML being developed at that time. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.57.161.254 (talk) 01:00, 3 April 2007 (UTC).
 * escape codes isn't html


 * Bill Blue came up with ABBS - Apple BBS - a clone of my "commands" and -- can something so simple be called a "User Interface" -- so soon after I programmed CBBS, that I thought it of significant enough value / history to put it in the main article.

HOWEVER, if the BBS article attempts to cover every possible variation, so none feel left out, then we'd need a separate article on bbs history, and Jason Scott and textfiles.com and his DVD quite adequately does that already. WardXmodem (talk) 06:02, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Grammar
The un-grammatical writing in parts of this page call for attention. I may try to re-write those parts when I get time.

I added some templates on the last 3 paragraphs of the History section regarding grammar, tone, etc. Some of that material might be useful if moved to other sections of the article, but the last 3 paragraphs of that section are written in a much less encyclopedic tone that the other paragraphs and seem to repeat much of the information. 66.92.232.102 (talk) 03:43, 19 May 2008 (UTC) Robert Lange

TidyBBS spam
whoever is adding this, it's all from the same ISP. If this carries on it might be worth reporting it as abuse, especially given the previous edit summaries. Chris Cunningham 08:13, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

The role of porn in the advancement of technology.
One thing this article neglects is the role of porn in the advancing popularity of BBS's. I know this sounds stupid but as a pubescent teen in the mid 80's my main motivation for learning about computers was porn. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.184.1.216 (talk) 08:41, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

BBSJoey
Why are you removing my and other users contributions, and claiming that you only fixed incorrect information added by 77.102.130.18 ?

Looking at the differnces you made, you have also undone the following contributions made by other users:

June 10 2008: 70.208.195.108 Added Packet Radio (in addition to dialup and telnet connections)

June 16 2008: 75.84.214.21  added the BBS History Library link (run by textfiles.com and bbsdocumentary.com admins

June 29 2008: FatalError    added external links/citations.

I see you responded that there were already adequate external links and citations, yet you created a seperate entry for the BBS Corner and the BBS Corner telnet guide (there is no need to have multiple entries for the same site), and you also added a link to MySpace (which is inappropiate I believe), and you added bbsing.com which is a site filled with random BBS keywords to be found by search engines in an effort to promote the webmasters personal BBS. In my opinion, self-promoting sites, duplicate entries, and myspaces pages do not belong in the external links section.

Regarding the contributions that I made, let's start by looking the first few paragraphs that I cleaned up, which you reverted while claiming you were undoing something else:

= A Bulletin Board System, or BBS, is a computer system running software that allows users to dial into the system over a phone line (or Telnet) or radio and, using a terminal program, perform functions such as downloading software and data, uploading data, reading news, and exchanging messages with other users.

During their heyday from the late 1970s to the mid 1990s, many BBSes were run as a hobby free of charge by the system operator (or "sysop"), while other BBSes charged their users a subscription fee for access, or were operated by a business as a means of supporting their customers. Still others were run by Internet service providers as part of their service to subscribers.

In recent years, the term BBS is sometimes also used to refer to any online forum or message board.

Bulletin Board Systems were in many ways a precursor to the modern form of the World Wide Web and other aspects of the Internet. BBSes were a highly social phenomenon and were used for meeting people and having discussions on message boards, as well as for publishing articles, downloading software, playing games and many more things, all using a single application.

The BBS was also a local phenomenon, as one had to dial into a BBS with a phone line and would have to pay additional long distance charges for a BBS out of the local area, as opposed to less expensive local charges. Thus, many users of a given BBS usually lived in the same area, and activities such as BBS Meets or Get Togethers, where everyone from the board would gather and meet face to face, were common. As the use of the Internet became more widespread in the mid to late 1990s, BBSes rapidly faded in popularity. ==

This read very poorly. I cleaned it up as follows:

= A Bulletin Board System, or BBS, is a computer system running software that allows users to connect and login to the system using a terminal program. Originally BBSes were accessed only over a phone line using a modem, but by the early 1990s some BBSes allowed access via a Telnet or packet radio connection.

Once a user logged in, they could perform functions such as downloading or uploading software and data, reading news, and exchanging messages with other users. Many BBSes also offered on-line games, in which users could compete with each other, and BBSes with multiple phone lines often offered IRC-like chat rooms, allowing users to meet each other.

In recent years, the term BBS is sometimes incorrectly used to refer to any online forum or message board.

During their heyday from the late 1970s to the mid 1990s, most BBSes were run as a hobby free of charge by the system operator (or "sysop"), while other BBSes charged their users a subscription fee for access, or were operated by a business as a means of supporting their customers. Bulletin Board Systems were in many ways a precursor to the modern form of the World Wide Web and other aspects of the Internet.

Early BBSes were often a local phenomenon, as one had to dial into a BBS with a phone line and would have to pay additional long distance charges for a BBS out of the local area, as opposed to less expensive local charges. Thus, many users of a given BBS usually lived in the same area, and activities such as BBS Meets or Get Togethers, where everyone from the board would gather and meet face to face, were common.

As the use of the Internet became more widespread in the mid to late 1990s, BBSes rapidly faded in popularity. ==

You reverted it without any discussion on June 29th, and claimed that you were fixing incorrect information added by 77.102.130.18 which was untrue. Was this vandalizam, or an honest mistake on your part? If you had a problem with my cleanup and rewording, why not offer suggestions on how it could be further improved?

Michael 71.160.39.117 (talk) 07:47, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

I'd also like to point out that you restored the "Quantum Link main menu" image, which in fact was not a BBS, but rather a national online service which competed against BBSes. Quantum link was later renamed AOL (America On Line). Why do you feel this image belongs in an artical about Bulletin Board Systems?

Michael 71.160.39.117 (talk) 07:58, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

i'm not trying to be sneaky here, or create edit wars, i just considered this part of general cleanup because a lot of this did not belong or was incorrect. Bbsjoey (talk) 17:54, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

BBSing.com is not a site filled with random bbs keywords to be found by search engines, etc etc etc. it is a site run by someone very prominent in the bbs scene and it contains a LOT of information(not just link, CONTENT) for people who are new to bbses and it is notable even for that reason.

same for the http://www.myspace.com/bbses page. it's not some vanity page, it's got a lot of bbs information on the page and in the blog regarding bbsing..

pretty much separate entities. bbs corner is a dead site taken over from another operator, telnet bbsguide is actively maintained. both have different content and are notable[if not just the bbs list]
 * none* of this was self promotion. BBS corner and telnet bbs guide http://telnetbbsguide.com are

now, regarding the adequate links and citations, i just removed the TEMPLATE someone had pasted at the top, so don't go 'twisting my words'. Bbsjoey (talk) 17:54, 4 July 2008 (UTC)'''

NO NEED TO PASTE THE PAST ARTICLES IN HERE, PEOPLE CAN VIEW THE HISTORY.

Actually a lot of that information *was* incorrect, i just didn't go into a deep conversation regarding it. i was short on time, so i'm sorry for not dictating a laundry list of why your additions and edits where wrong. not trying to start an edit war here. Bbsjoey (talk) 17:54, 4 July 2008 (UTC)'''

'''quantum link and aol WERE actually bulletin board systems... they used modems and operated in the same fashion as bbses do. from the ground up they were bbses, they just got bigger in popularity just because it was run by a company doesn't change the fact that they were actually bbses. Bbsjoey (talk) 17:54, 4 July 2008 (UTC)'''

'''regarding all this, i find it very juvenile that you ask the page to be protected when you wouldnt discuss things(i was the first ask to discuss btw) and THEN you post all this in here to cover your butt.

I dont believe we have an edit war here, and i'm certainly NOT a vandal. it seems on this article we have had a problem with copyeditors[and people who just like to delete things] that are not knowledgeable about this subject; they are just trying to score brownie points and build up their number of edits.

i for one, do not feel that wikipedia is a mmorpg, but a large population of people here do.

sorry if i was short in my reasons for taking out parts that didnt belong or not factual, i dont devote my entire day to editing wikipedia entries. i am however VERY knowledgeable about bbses and i have been in the bbs scene since the 80's and written my own bbs software. Good day to you, sir, and thank you for the half hour i wasted replying to this. Bbsjoey (talk) 17:54, 4 July 2008 (UTC)'''

edit: btw, i see you blanked your talk page when confronted with your vandalism of an article and immediately came here with vandalism remarks  http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:71.160.39.117&action=history  are you venting your aggression on me? Bbsjoey (talk) 18:00, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your response BBSjoey. For the record, I did not request the page to be protected, it was probally done by the admin's software which detected the edit war. I see that admin has protected it in the past as well. There is no need for name calling here, I am in my 40s - hardly 'juvenile' as you say.

The only issue you addressed here was the Quantim Link (AOL), and while I disagree that this national service is/was a BBS, it is perhaps a debatable subject. I am open to listening to what others have to say about it. But if that was your only issue, then why did you delete all my contributions as well? And you did not explain why you added those questionable links, while removing valid links that others had added.

Regarding your accusation that I am a vandal, you are greatly mistaken. My IP is on a shared wireless router, and I have pre-teenage kids in my house who have wireless access. My 12 year old son is a user of the the Gaia forums community which was vandalized earlier this year. I just found out about it myself this week, and I can assure you I was stern on his punishment.

By the way, I am a software developer by profession, and was a sysop since the 80's. I have written a number of BBS related programs and utilities over the years.

It's intresting that you say I wasted your time, yet you are the one who deleted hours of my (and other peoples) work to the BBS artical, not to mention what you did with the external links!

Michael 71.160.39.117 (talk) 18:53, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok I see now you responded to your links up above in the middle of my previous entry. Please don't add comments in the middle of my entries, and place your replies at the bottom of the page. FYI, I happen to know Dave (BBS Corner), Chris (Kaboom), and I'm willing to bet neither of them are involved in your questionable ethics.

Michael 71.160.39.117 (talk) 19:49, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

yeah, sure. just a coincidence? Bbsjoey (talk) 17:26, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

'old' people can act juvenile, can they not? Bbsjoey (talk) 17:26, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

funny how you said that, but you did the exact same thing, but without Differentiating what is yours and what is mine. Bbsjoey (talk) 17:26, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Ah another personal attack! thanks. btw, how is it that you know "Chris (Kaboom)" and refer to him as chris, and not Craig, his real name? and why did you refer to his site as some google link trap? that's not what it is. it's a good source of bbs information, more than a collection of keywords.

btw, why not make an account so you wont be 'falsely' accused of vandalizing? seems strange to me. also seems strange since that wireless excuse is widely used when confronted with misbehavior on the internet.

And how are my ethics questionable? if you dont want to have your information edited out, why not get your facts straight?

michael, you seem to be taking this way too seriously. perhaps both of us should obstain from editing this article? you seem very hot headed and seems like you are trying to provoke an edit war.Bbsjoey (talk) 17:26, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

BBSjoey - I see that you continue to add comments in the middle of my entries, and now you have also edited one of my entries. You claimed that I had done 'exactly the same thing', which is untrue - I had not modified any of your entries. However, I agree that at this point it was difficult to differentiate between what is yours and what is mine, so as of this entry I have restored my entries that you edited, and I have moved your comments down to seperate entries in the proper sequence. Let's please not turn this talk page into yet another edit war.

Yes old people can act 'juvenile', and you called me this name based on your assumption that I had asked the page to be protected, which was untrue.

And you continued to make other incorrect assumptions. It's no coinsidence that this IP was used by my 12 yr old son. He is an active member of the Giai Online and other childrens roleplaying game sites. If I was using a 'wireless excuse' I could have simply claimed it was hacked, but instead I confirmed it was done from inside my home, by my own offspring.

I am not the one making personal attacks here.

You ask how your ethics are questionable. From my point of view, I see that you deleted several paragraphs of improvements I have made to the BBS artical in the past weeks, without any explaination of what statements you found to be untrue. And you did this while claiming you were cleaning up mistakes added by someone elses IP. At the same time you added external links which I find questionable in nature (1 duplicate, 1 self-promoting, 1 myspace), and you deleted someone elses external link to the BBSHistory site without any explanation. (Other then mentioning that there are already enough links). When I asked you to offer suggestions on how the first paragraphs I rewrote could be further improved, you declined to do so, and instead you choose to attack me with unsubstanciated claims.

Regarding Kabooms site, it is indeed designed to contain common BBS keywords to be found by search engines, and it does promote his personal BBS on that web site. I have chatted with Kaboom on IRC regularly since he started that site, and he has never attempted to deny it. However, he did deny knowing anyone named BBSjoey when I asked him last week, and I have no reason to believe otherwise.

I still have a question in my mind on what is motivating you to delete my work without explaining what statements you find incorrect, and why you add those particular links while refusing to let the other guy add the BBSHistory link. You have yet to answer those questions. The links are not important to me, but you deleting my contributions is.

Lets try to act as comrades for a change, and see if we can work together on improving the substance of the BBS artical. It would be great if you could start by letting me know what facts you find incorrect in the first few paragraphs, and offer suggestions for improvement. Then we can move forward from there.

Michael 71.160.39.117 (talk) 03:23, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for taking a stand against this abuse Michael. He had deleted my contribution as well. It appears that someone created a single purpose (sockpuppet) account on June 15th "Saketh11th" which attempted to make the identical set of changes as was later made by the BBSjoey account, but XLinkBot immediatly blocked the changes. 75.82.235.89 (talk) 15:49, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Krux-ice-dec94.png
The image Image:Krux-ice-dec94.png is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check


 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

The following images also have this problem:


 * File:Monochrome BBS.png

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --05:25, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Monochrome_BBS.png
Tough one this as it represents a screen shot of that BBS, which can be accessed by Telnet. There is no trademarked information. It's fair use as it's showing what a BBS looks like. If anyone's got a better solution than what I've changed it to, do tell. You people don't make it easy on us ordinary folk!81.178.203.197 (talk) 18:58, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

BBS_Kraftfahrzeugtechnik_AG
How I link to also BBS Wheels company —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.90.176.165 (talk) 21:16, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Not sure why this has "Unfortunately, with Commodore International no longer producing computers", I believe should be deleted since this shows personal opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paradiselost79 (talk • contribs) 15:14, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Access-80 BBS constantly being removed
Does anyone have a reason that Access-80 is being constantly removed from the article? It has had references to back it up lately. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Real Deuce (talk • contribs) 02:26, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Monochrome BBS pics
Any particular reason for having 2 screen shots of Monochrome BBS in the intro? I'm thinking the 2nd is the better of the two. Any thoughts? Jedikaiti (talk) 21:42, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

About OS usage
> By 1995, many of the DOS-based BBSes had begun switching to modern multitasking operating systems, such as OS/2, Windows 95, and Linux. These operating systems also provided built-in TCP/IP networking, which allowed most of the remaining BBSes to evolve and include Internet hosting capabilities. Recent BBS software, such as Synchronet, EleBBS, DOC or Wildcat! BBS provide access using the Telnet protocol rather than dialup, or by using legacy MS-DOS based BBS software with a FOSSIL-to-Telnet redirector such as NetFoss. I think this is BS, what is your reference? I did try to run my 4 node BBS with both Windows 95 (PCBoard) and Warp, it just did not work. Lines were disconnecting all the time and all sorts of other problems. Another thing is that Windows 95 did not have TCP/IP built in. I used DOS based multitasker (don't remember the name anymore) from -94 to -99 and I doubt that many other SysOps used Windows 95 or OS/2 Warp, at least any of the many I knew did not.

Cheers,
 * P —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.156.24.3 (talk) 00:05, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

I took out the win95 claim for reasons you outlined - they are common knowledge, and documented in the wikipedia article on "microsoft windows".

For now, I didn't remove the claim about OS/2 warp. I don't know a lot about it, but it doesn't have the 2 strikes that the win95 claim did afaik - it did have TCP/IP.

We probably should really consider removing that entire unsourced paragraph...68.126.148.134 (talk) 08:32, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, I found at least one BBS sysop speaking as though OS/2 was a normal system to run a BBS on.

http://www.fidonews.org/prev/2002/articles.html#2

"Both Corby and the BBS were with me until 2001, although I could see their decline. When Corby died, so little activity was left in Net 106 that keeping the BBS up on an aging OS/2 machine seemed futile."69.105.118.211 (talk) 09:13, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * We need to find sources; there were at lesat two OS/2 hosted BBSes in my neck of the woods which was hardly a leading-edge hotbed of computerdom; this was back in the days when Linux users used to swap stories about how much uptime they'd had between crashes. It was a different era...--Wtshymanski (talk) 13:10, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Most used siftware in Bulgaria (1995- to the end) was Maximus+Fossil driver under DOS. Some systems use DESQview or openDOS' task switcher. Most old modem doesn't use MNP buildin driver and use software MNP/v42 error corrections.


 * I have removed the first mention of OS/2. It is mentioned only a few lines later, and clearly should not be part of that paragraph, which is about events circa 1980. Maury Markowitz (talk) 13:38, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Austin Arts BBS claims
I have removed a section on Austin Arts BBS. It makes several highly questionable claims, among them being that it was the first Mac BBS, that it started in 1983 (the Mac was released in 1984), that it ran on CBBS (which is S-100 based) and that it was the first to do internet radio (sort of). All of these claims are referenced to articles that simply do not support any of it; one is simply a listing of web systems with audio downloads, the other is a BBS list. The reference to 'net audio being used to claim priority not only makes no such claim, but actually lists an earlier example in the same paragraph. The entire Austin Arts BBS article was written by the person who ran it, and earlier versions do not make the same claims of priority. I have removed the text from this article pending further research, but I strongly suspect all of the claims are simply untrue, and will likely take the main article to AfD at some point. Maury Markowitz (talk) 13:37, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Access-80
I have noticed over the years that references to Access-80 come and go from the Wikipedia. I (Charles Oropallo) am the original creator of Access-80. I developed and placed Access-80 online in November 1977 on a very much hacked up TRS-80. It was officially called the "Access-80 BBS" (Bulletin Board System) and was dialed into using a 300 baud modem. It was a very simple compared to the BBS Ward Christiansen placed online a short time later. Access-80 was online for nearly 10 years until the system finally died in 1987. I have kept http://access-80.com online as an informational site devoted to the original Access-80 BBS. CharlesWorks (talk) 19:34, 9 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Note: Above comment moved from a relevant section near the top of this page from 2008, where it's unlikely anyone would see it. &mdash;  Rhododendrites talk  \\ 21:11, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't have any comment on the subject, but we might as well ping who opened the 2008 section about Access-80 (though it doesn't look like he/she has edited since 2011). &mdash;  Rhododendrites  talk  \\ 21:14, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Confusing references to microcomputers and expansion slots
Under "The first BBSes," it says:

"With the introduction of microcomputers with expansion slots, like the S-100 bus machines and Apple II, it became possible for the modem to communicate instructions and data on separate lines."

I think this wording is confusing. The main problems that folks had with the original acoustic modems were the interconnections to the telephone system. Back then, you needed a DAA to connect to the telephone system, and for the longest time, Ma Bell just didn't want to allow that. So, connections were manual, using acoustic coupling.

The problems, as I recall from working on computers in the 70s, had nothing to do with expansion slots or separate "instructions and data." RS-232 had modem control lines going back to the 1960s. I suspect that the original author might possibly be referring to the Apple-CAT II modem, which was an internal modem for Apple II computers, but it's unclear. In any event, internal modems weren't required to in order to get on/off hook control -- a licensed DAA was necessary. (And I'm still unsure what the original author meant, which is why I'm posting this on the Talk page.)

I suggest that this paragraph be recast with reference to the difficulties of using the then-common acoustically-coupled modems for dial-in systems, and the eventual availability of directly connected modems using DAAs, including that particular Apple internal modem.

James.d.carlson (talk) 18:05, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Role of TI "Silent" 700?
Did the availability of the TI Silent 700 play any role in the widespread BBS use and, if so, should the article mention it? 12:38, 27 September 2020 (UTC)Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk)

Missing Reference to "eBBS" and "Electronic Bulletin Board System"
The sysops and co-sysops who established and maintained the systems referred to them as an "electronic bulletin board system," an "eBBS," or just "BBS." The admins and mods (administrators and moderators) of the message forums which allowed users to easily communicate with others used the same terminology. This terminology was also used in countless reputable magazines/periodicals referenced the "eBBS," including Popular Electronics (1954-1985), Creative Computing (1974-1985), Byte (1974-1998), InfoWord (1978-2007), Compute! (1979-1994), 80/Microcomputing (1980-1988), Computer Shopper, and PC Magazine. They ALL used either "BBS" or "eBBS." And yet, here we are 40 years later, but there's no mention of either "eBBS" or "electronic bulletin board system" in this article. Why? Do you not want to refer to them using the same terminology used by literally hundreds of millions of users who are now in our 40s, 50s, and higher? I think it's very important we include the common vernacular. You don't attempt to rewrite history and refer to nuclear weapons as SAFFDs (sub-atomic fission-fusion devices), do you? No, of course not. You refer to them as either nuclear weapons, atomic bombs, atom bombs, a-bombs, nukes, etc. using the vernacular of the day. While BBSes were indeed called BBSes through the 70s, 80s and 90s, the were only slightly more formally but ubiquitously called "electronic bulletin board systems." And yet, there's only one mention of the word, "electronic" in the article, and not even in conjunction with bulletin boards. As a sysop throughout the 1980s, I can definitively and rather authoritatively state this article needs to be re-written by someone who actually, hands-on, worked the systems themselves. There are many times where Wikipedia's "no original research" (WP:NOR) runs afoul of reality. Sometimes, the requisite "reliable, published sources" no longer exist," or rather, have never existed in electronic format. While you can find 1934 copy of a National Geographic online, I think you would be hard-pressed to find any of the many outstanding articles in Computer Shopper online.  Something to consider... Clepsydrae (talk) 13:41, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Darn, probably my fat copies of Computer Shoppers are long gone but my storage must have some of my copies of BYTE from the 1990s when I operated The Double Helix BBS. Maybe even Creative Computing. The term eBBS faintly tinkles a bell but it keeps being drowned out by "Here I sit, in a tizzy. All my favorite boards are busy." Boo-hoo, so long ago we were young and cute, passionate and smart. Or at least we thought we were smart. And no, I won't rely on my own fond memories as a reference. Jim.henderson (talk) 18:44, 22 August 2020 (UTC)


 * User above has failed to acknowledge NASA systems of traditional cork bulletin board system used in teaching institutions worldwide. LED BodyBuilding (talk) 09:28, 28 January 2021 (UTC)