Talk:Bullingdon Club

Cameron's membership
Is there any evidence Cameron was a member? It seems to be the sort of thing that people allude to frequently but isn't sourced... MarkRTaylor 02:53, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't know if there's an official list of members or anything that would constitute a primary source, but it's been very well covered in reputable news outlets. There is also, of course, the famous photo of Cameron with fellow members of the club, which was published in the Mail and later "banned" from publication by the copyright holders Gillman and Soame (I don't think they ever gave permission for its publication in the first place). You could probably still find the photo somewhere on the web, though of course it couldn't be added to Wikipedia. There's a story about the photo episode on the BBC News site. Casper Gutman 18:31, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Surely the photograph of Cameron, George (Gideon) Osborne and Boris Johnston should be displayed in this article? It is commonly available (see http://k-punk.abstractdynamics.org/archives/011707.html) and a part of it has been (poorly) recreated on the BBC website which is in the article as an external link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6409757.stm). Is it possible for the rich and corrupt to prevent the people from seeing what they are really like? 217.39.72.123 (talk) 22:52, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Targets for envy by priggish proles, evidently. If it was a workingmans social club in Woking, we would be hearing about its 'authenticity' as oppsed to the hypocrisy of the 'respectability of the ruling classes'; blah blah blah. Still, if the picture in question is in the public domain, it should prob be included in the article. 170.170.59.139 (talk) 05:03, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Verification of Bullingdon Activities
Since the club has become more prominent recently - on the back of Cameron and Johnson's rises - the newspapers have given it increasing attention. Stories of club's activities are retold with an eye to a more sensational story that out of regard for accuracy.

Contributors should be aware that many of these news reports present stories and facts which can not be pinned down to anything concrete. The lack of a date, or of a supporting contemporary journalistic or biographical mention make many of these stories less than reliable.

I write this having seen that a story is constantly recirculated in the press about the Bullingdon having smashed a Stradivarius violin. This was most recently reported on 9 May 2008 in the Guardian."On one occasion the Bullingdon hired a string band to play at a garden party and ended up smashing up all the instruments, including a Stradivarius." I cannot trace this story back beyond an article from the Oxford Student from 12 Jan 2005, in which an anonymous member of the club is said to be the source.

I doubt the story of Stad; because no year is given for the incident; because garden parties seem never to have formed part of the Bullingdon's activities; because it seems unlikely that a Strad would be played in a 'string band' at a university garden party; because one searches in vain for a reference to what would certainly have been a newsworthy incident (given the cost and cultural significance of a Strad) in any of the literature which covers the other excesses of the Bullingdon; because it seems unlikely that some drunk young men would have been able to smash all the instrument of the sober men in the 'band' without a serious fight breaking out - by all account the Bullingdon stay away from fighting with members outside the club.

For those who wish to add stories to this article, I would suggest that they only do so if they can pin down some concrete date or contemporary report. Pppben 10:49, 12 May 2007


 * Yes, I expect you are right, having had a look at the Stradivarius article I think we would have heard more about this incident if it happened. Even a cheaper Stradivarius costs several hundred thousand dollars, so paying compensation for this could stretch even the Bullingdon's resources. PatGallacher (talk) 11:24, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

They apparently insulted Dawn French and her then husband Lenny Henry in a restaurant, then stubbed a cigar out on someone's lapel (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2173628/George-Osborne-Chancellor-high-society-Bullingdon-Club-Oxford-Year-Two--things-looking-.html) - 79.70.225.44 (talk) 21:33, 25 November 2012 (UTC)twl79.70.225.44 (talk) 21:33, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Michael Gove
Not impossible that Michael Gove was a member of the Bullingdon, though it seems unlikely, - but the cited James Delingpole article doesn't say so, only that he, Gove, Boris and David etc., were at Oxford at the same time. Unoquha (talk) 20:20, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I'm glad you are on the ball, Unoquha. My mistake—the article could certainly be clearer. – Toon 20:32, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

WP:FOOD Tagging
This article talk page was automatically added with WikiProject Food and drink banner as it falls under Category:Restaurants or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. You can find the related request for tagging here -- TinucherianBot (talk) 08:02, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Terminology
'The Crest of the Bullingdon Club', 'This foundational sporting purpose is attested to in the Club's crest' - is this actually a crest (and if so, what are their arms?), or is it their badge/logo? In this case, a more correct term should be used. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.11.4.28 (talk) 08:12, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Citation tag
I note that AnomieBOT has inserted a 'citation needed' tag in the lede. Apparently he/it thinks that more support is needed for the claim that the Bullingdon is a popular topic with the public.

I would have thought that the existing material on that page about novels, plays, films and TV coverage would represent adequate support.

Perhaps I may delete this tag, if I don't hear back in a week or two. Valetude (talk) 11:18, 22 September 2014 (UTC)


 * AnomieBOT merely dates tags that already have been added. The tag was added by an IP editor here. I would suggest that the statement is WP:SYNTH. Also, being a popular topic with the media and authors doesn't necessarily make it a popular topic "with the public". It would be better to simply say: "It has regularly featured in fiction and drama,..." etc, rest as before. DeCausa (talk) 11:31, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I've changed it. DeCausa (talk) 11:48, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Photographs of club members
I'm adding a new section with info on the photographs of club members as it seems like a notable part of the story; a great deal of the information we know about the club is from the photographs. I'm adding this Talk: section by way of explanation of my reasoning, as it follows a reverted (for reason of WP:TRIVIA) edit, which in retrospect was understandable, as it was probably not best placed in the head of the article. I have attempted to put together a decent representation of notable photographs of the club and to create a new section further down the page to better contextualise the importance of the section. Mcgrubso (talk) 13:52, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

List of members
That list is getting a bit long; would it not make sense to divide them into categories? Perhaps nobility, politicians and other? Splitting them into columns would reduce the height a bit. --ERAGON (talk) 20:21, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Charles Spencer appears on this list but there is no evidence he was indeed part of the group. He claims he was courted by the group but did not join, so I have removed him from this list.

Assessment comment
Substituted at 10:31, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

The name Bullingdon?
Who or what was Bullingdon?

Presumably the club is named after the place Bullingdon Green?

Bullingdon Green the cricket ground in Oxford dates to 1843, long after the club was founded. But is it also Bullingdon Green, part of the Bullingdon hundred, an ancient hundred in the south-east of the county of Oxfordshire?

Did the club first play on this ancient Green and adopt its name?

31.51.227.8 (talk) 22:55, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

'Former'
User:Strolls made a change removing 'former' from phrases like "The club has attracted controversy, due to former members now being part of the British political establishment. These include the former Prime Minister David Cameron, former Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne and former Mayor of London, current Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson." with the edit comment:


 * As per previous edit, I don't think they're "former" because they held these roles at the time of controversy - see "Nixon met with Mao" at WP:WHATPLACE also MOS:DATED. Please the Talk Page (or mine) if you think I'm mistaken.

I think they are mistaken - because no date is given to the controversy, unlike in 'Nixon met with Mao'. If it said "The club attracted controversy in 2012 due to Prime Minister David Cameron having been a member" or similar, it would be correct to omit 'former'; but the only temporal reference in the section is 'now'. In the absence of a specific past date we are talking about, I think readers must assume we are talking about now, in which case David Cameron is former Prime Minister.

Hence, I've reverted - although with one slight edit, because Johnson is not only former London Mayor, he is also current Foreign secretary. TSP (talk) 14:06, 16 September 2016 (UTC)


 * I don't think this makes any difference, just as "President George W. Bush nominated John Roberts as Chief Justice" on that page. Let's imagine we were writing of an earlier PM - "The Wellingbone club has attracted controversy, due to former prime minister Winston Churchill having been a member". It's only because Boris et al recently left these positions that one instinctively prepends the word "former" when thinking of them - that doesn't make it encyclopaedic to write it so. The controversy is not about the "former PM" being a member of a rowdy drinking club, but it was about someone in a position of power having these connections, and that powerful positions are disproportionately filled by those with a background of privilege. It is their roles as PM, mayor etc that make the controversy, not their roles as former-PM, former-mayor. etc. I think the right way to write about Bojo is "Mayor of London and Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson". Hopefully some others will chime in. Stroller (talk) 14:52, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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'Boisterous rituals'
I note that the reference to 'boisterous rituals' has been deleted today (1/9/20) by 213.18.184.64. I would have thought that this was a defining statement of the club's agenda. In fact you could you could even get round 'bad behaviour' with a phrase like 'boisterous rituals, occasionally intrusive'. Valetude (talk) 16:37, 1 September 2020 (UTC)