Talk:Burke's Peerage/Archive 1

It looks like User:Nunh-huh, User:Hansnesse and I all had the same idea
to look at the Burke's Peerage page after reviewing the Earl of Stirling debacle. I know my rewrite is a big change but I hope you will give it a chance. I spent some time getting verifed sources through Lexis/Nexis so I could tell the story of both Burke's Peerage and Gentry (publisher of the real Burke's Peerage) and Burke's Peerage Ltd, publishers of, well, whatever you want to call it. I feel it is important to put both companies in the article since many people who search for Burke's will not know the history and may not even know which they really want. I also think the Brooks-Baker angle with selling titles is an interesting tie-in to the Stirling story and I ran into further newspaper articles about legal issues with selling titles that will have bearing if Mr. Alexander decides to show up again. Hope you find this revision acceptable. Thatcher131 06:56, 4 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Very well done. Kittybrewster 17:24, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Seconded; a fantastic job. --Hansnesse 23:39, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

http://www.armorial-register.com/ @External Links
a) http://www.armorial-register.com/ doesn't have an Impressum;

b) »Burke's Peerage & Gentry International Register of Arms« isn't listed there: www.burkespeerage.com/store/store.aspx

So, how does it work?

--SR-7v (talk) 08:54, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
 * It doesn't. It is rubbish. Kittybrewster  &#9742;  09:46, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Explanation - the relationship between Burke's Peerage & Gentry (UK) Limited and The Armorial Register Limited For a number of years The Armorial Register Limited enjoyed a special relationship with the owners and directors of Burkes Peerage & Gentry (UK) Ltd (the Wills era) and had been pleased to licence the name of Burke’s Peerage & Gentry for use with its International Register of Arms. In September 2011 The directors of The Armorial Register Limited became aware that Burkes Peerage & Gentry (UK) Ltd had been subjected to negotiations towards a private business sale and, as far as the directors of The Armorial Register Limited were aware, this was progressing towards a successful completion. Because the sale of Burkes Peerage & Gentry (UK) Ltd would mean a complete change in ownership and therefore management of the Burke’s company the directors of The Armorial Register Limited and the outgoing board of Burkes Peerage & Gentry (UK) Ltd  decided that it was an appropriate time to end their  agreement. The Armorial Register Limited continues to publish its International Register of Arms and “A Celebration of Scottish Heraldry” but it has returned to the branding of The Armorial Register – International Register of Arms and no longer publishes under the Burke’s brand.

To the best of my knowledge and belief the former owners of Burkes Peerage & Gentry (UK) Ltd could not in fact sell the company because it was not a viable going concern and it was burdened with debt; they instead sold all the rights to the names Burke's Peerage and Burke's Peerage & Gentry along with all copyrights to their publications to a new company along with the legal agreement that Burkes Peerage & Gentry (UK) Ltd would immediately change its name to one not associated with the trading name Burke's and then petition to be wound up (the company is now Jacks Hill Limited).

In effect Burke's Peerage & Gentry (UK) Ltd no longer exists and the company now enjoying the “Burke's” brand (Burke’s Peerage (1826) Limited) is a totally new creation which has simply purchased the brand name and continues to sell the remaindered titles; it has no association with any past ownership or Burke’s Company.

Letter of agreement to use the Burke's name http://heraldryaddict.co.uk/contract-letter.jpg Martin Goldstraw 17th April 2015

Burke's Peerage Limited
I have changed the details of the new company created by William Bortrick. When William Bortrick purchased the rights to use the Burke's brand from Burke's Peerage & Gentry (UK) Limited (now renamed Jacks Hill Limited) he created the company Burke's Peerage (1826) Limited. The company Burke's Peerage Limited is a completely different company and at the time of writing (April 2015) it is under consideration to be struck off).

Martin Goldstraw 17th April 2015

Following detailed analysis and enquiries, we have determined that continuity of Burke’s Peerage has in fact been maintained. All of the intellectual property of Burke’s Peerage resides in a single entity, Burke’s Peerage Limited in the Isle of Man”.

Martin Goldstraw 29th March 2016

Reversal of edits by Mabelina
I am reversing certain changes made by Mabelina. This is why:

Mabelina's change: Burke's Peerage has been changed to Burke's Peerage & Baronetage in several places. My note: This is neither the name of the company or the volumes it published. As an example... The image shown: Burke's Peerage & Baronetage title page (6th edition, 1839), when in fact it title was: A Genealogical and Heraldic Dictionary of the Peerage and Baronetage of the British Empire, Sixth Edition 1839 However, it has always been referred to as Burke's Peerage - in honour of the man who founded the company, wrote and published the volumes.

Mabelina change: Highlighted 'modern culture' as a link My note: when you click on it - it takes you to 'culture' - so why not highlight 'culture' as a link - as it was?

S.A. Malin, President, Burke's Peerage Limited Editor Burke's Peerage 19:27, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Burke's Colonial Gentry
Is anyone here interested in starting an article for Burke's Colonial Gentry ? QuintusPetillius (talk) 19:32, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Article on subsets of the publication series?
I came to this article from the article called "Burke's Landed Gentry" which is a bibliographic article on the books of that title (or variants) published by Burke and "Burke's" since the 19th century. Following a "see also" link from that article I was hoping to find a parallel article with a bibliography of (and hopefully links to) the various editions of Burke's "Genealogical and Heraldic Dictionary of the Peerage and Baronetage" etc. Is there interest in putting into this article a general bibliographic section of all the editions of such books by the Burke family and by the current corporate author known as Burke's Peerage, etc.? Or does this already exist under a different article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.188.130.239 (talk) 02:33, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

lack of any criticism
This article contains no criticism at all, with the possible exception of the Wilde quote, though readers have to make of that what they will. I would suggest many of the published sources about Burkes are critical or concerned in various ways. I also think some of the comments are getting close to advertising, such as saying that Burkes invented the standard format used by all genealogical publications. I think that is nonsense.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 09:12, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
 * This comment seems pointless without specific reliable sourcing of personal opinions. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 09:22, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Two things are clear to me. One is that too much of this article is corporate puff, which I think can probably be removed by any editor, citing WP:SPIP. The other is that, as Oscar Wilde was well aware, publications under the Burke imprint have from the outset been guilty of printing misleading material, to put it very politely.


 * To prove this second point would probably require dreary probing into individual family histories, of little interest to anybody. Even if one found a sound reference for an outright lie, one such case would not invalidate the book in which it appeared or the series as a whole. So at this moment I'm not sure how within Wikipedia's ethos one can flag the fact that Burke material is often unreliable. Clifford Mill (talk) 20:16, 15 March 2018 (UTC)


 * It is not difficult or controversial. It just requires a bit of time to find the sources. Burkes has been the subject of complaints by serious scholars since it first appeared.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 18:45, 18 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Just got round to a bit of cleaning up. Clifford Mill (talk) 17:40, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Foundation of Burke's Peerage Limited
May I respectfully point out that the claim "Burke's Peerage Limited is a British genealogical publisher founded in 1826" is very misleading. Whilst it may be correct to state that the "brand" of Burke's Peerage began when Burke first published a genealogical works in 1826, it is wholly incorrect to suggest that Burke's peerage Limited is as old as 1826. There have been many and various companies who have owned the Burke's brand over the years all of whom no longer exist. The present company using the name Burke's Peerage, the purchaser of the brand, was founded on 21st may 2013 - hardly as old as 1826. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08539019 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.26.123.83 (talk) 16:34, 7 June 2020 (UTC)