Talk:Burro de Miranda

Coat Color
My "good faith" comment that the coat is initially black, even with a verifiable reference, was taken out. "It just looked black," was the comment. If it looks black, it is black, genetics notwithstanding. Is there support to revert the revert.Mwinog2777 (talk) 06:26, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, black is a colour, not a gene (yes, OK, I know, technically it is not a colour but the absence of any colour). I know less than nothing about donkey genes, but I've already suggested to (damned if I can remember where) that the lead of Black (horse) needs modification to make clear that not all black horses are genetically "true" black (horse people instinctively know that, that's why they talk about "black bay" and so on). I thought this might be a translation error, so I checked this source; it definitely reads "nascerem com o pêlo preto", and is directly quoting a donkey expert.
 * The article as a whole needs a good deal of work and much better sources. Rather than blogs and the like (though Monteiro does appear to be an expert on the topic, so WP:RS), I suggest starting from pages such as these. In particular, this source seems to be fundamental to the topic. Is the breed standard not published? Where are the official decrees or whatever of the recognition of the breed? And a nit-pick: it is really extremely unlikely that Portugal, which uses the euro, gives subsidies in US$! Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 11:08, 24 February 2015 (UTC)


 * If the article said the baby coat "appears" black but sheds out brown, that would be fine. But it is NOT "black" in the legal sense unless genetics say otherwise (I suppose donkeys with some sort of silver dilution or smoky cream could be black but look brown)  But I'm not going to rewrite things for people.   It's very clear from the most superficial glance at these images that these donkeys are a dark brown and also carry pangare on top of whatever else.  Now, if genetic studies exist, great, that will help us all!  However, the lead image shows a donkey foal that clearly has a light belly indicative of pangare and however dark its baby coat is, if there exists root-brown hair, particularly where a baby coat sheds out to brown, the animal is not "black"; a lot of people fail to observe brown hairs around the eyes, flanks, elbows and other areas. Odder yet, many true blacks - horses at least-- are born a rather mousy dun, but at their hair roots their color is black and when their baby coat sheds, they remain true black.  The technical language matters, "looks to me" is not - coat color is more than superficial appearence, it is genetic - a gray horse might be born black-colored as a foal, perhaps without even a single visible white hair - but it is "legally" a gray and anyone calling it a "black" could be sued for false advertising or be accused of trying to cheat people.  Similarly, one could as well say the same gray horse is a "white" horse at the age of 10 because its hair coat turned completely white. But again, it isn't white, it's gray.  Genetics and solid science trump opinions.  But bottom line is this article would benefit from better sources.    Montanabw (talk)  20:30, 24 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Agree, better references would be great. Several of those listed above are pdf's and my internet couldn't translate.  Also, many are generic scientific articles about donkeys in general.  As far as as using U.S. dollars for subsidies: I tried again, but, couldn't find any link that listed the amount in euro's.Mwinog2777 (talk) 14:35, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

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