Talk:Business process modeling/Archives/2012

Business model category
Why is this article in the Business model category ?


 * Because it is related. If the category is intended only for 'models' and not 'modeling', then state that in the category description and we can create a separate category for 'business modeling' and move this article, and others like it - e.g. business process design.  If there is a more appropriate modeling category, please suggest it, or update it. RayGates 03:21, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

There is a difference between a Business Model and the concept of Business Modeling. The term Business Process Modeling (BPM) as currently used, centers around a set of simple techniques derived from traditional Process Modeling. Basic flowcharting symbols and tools such as PowerPoint, Visio and IBM Websphere Modeler are used to create Work Flow Diagrams and Process Models for analysis and reference. Organizations hope to use BPM to reveal areas of inefficiency within their current business processes and to document business knowledge that will be lost when the Baby Boomers begin to retire within the next 5 years. I agree that the current text on the BPM page needs to be reworked. Thadmanning 04:17, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

BPM
BPM seems to have 3 very similar meanings. Mathiastck 19:40, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Apparently, in the business context BPM can refer to Business Process Modeling,  Business Process Management and  Business Performance Management. We have to avoid the usage of different meanings in the same article. I think BPM is mostly used for Business Process Management. In that case we should remove the abbreviation for Business Process Modeling from this page, and for clarity, note that Business Process Modeling should not be confused with Business Process Management (BPM). Alternatively, we can avoid the abbreviation and include a note about the ambiguity in all three articles. dingenis 12:25, 23 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I have removed the abbreviation at Business Process Management (BPM). In this article it is clear that BPM means Business Process Modeling.
 * Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 14:57, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Business process and data modelling
The " Business process and data modelling" has recently been rewritten from:


 * Graphical representation of the current state of information provides a very effective means for presenting information to both users and system developers. A business model illustrates the functions associated with a process that are performance and the organizations that perform these functions. By depicting activities and information flows, a foundation is created to visualize, define, understand, and validate the nature of a process. A data model provides the details of information to be stored, and is of primary use when the final product is the generation of computer software code for an application or the preparation of a functional specification to aid a computer software make-or-buy decision. See the figure on the right for an example of the interaction between business process and data models. 


 * Usually, a model is created after conducting an interview, referred to as business analysis. The interview consists of a facilitator asking a series of questions designed to extract required information that describes a process. The interviewer is called a facilitator to emphasize that it is the participants who provide the information. The facilitator should have some knowledge of the process of interest, but this is not as important as having a structured methodology by which the questions are asked of the process expert. The methodology is important because usually a team of facilitators is collecting information cross the facility and the results of the information from all the interviewers must fit together once completed. 


 * The models are developed as defining either the current state of the process, in which case the final product is called the "as-is" snapshot model, or a collection of ideas of what the process should contain, resulting in a "what-can-be" model. Generation of process and data models can be used to determine if the existing processes and information systems are sound and only need minor modifications or enhancements, or if reengineering is required as corrective action. The creation of business models is more than a way to view or automate your information process analysis can be used to fundamentally reshape the way your business or organization conducts its operations. 

To:


 * The graphical representation of business process information has proven effective for presenting it to business stakeholders, including business analysts and system developers. Visual modeling languages used to represent business processes include Business Process Modeling Notation (BPMN) and the Unified Modeling Language (UML). A business model, which may be considered an elaboration of a business process model, typically shows business data and business organizations as well as business processes. By showing business processes and their information flows a business model allows business stakeholders to define, understand, and validate their business enterprise. The data model part of the business model shows how business information is stored, which is useful for developing software code. See the figure on the right for an example of the interaction between business process models and data models. 


 * Usually a business model is created after conducting an interview, which is part of the business analysis process. The interview consists of a facilitator asking a series of questions to extract information about the subject business process. The interviewer is referred to as a facilitator to emphasize that it is the participants, not the facilitator, who provide the business process information. Although the facilitator should have some knowledge of the subject business process, but this is not as important as her mastery of a pragmatic and rigorous method interviewing business experts. The method is important because for most enterprises a team of facilitators is needed to collect information across the enterprise, and the findings of all the interviewers must be compliled and integrated once completed. 


 * Business models are developed as defining either the current state of the process, in which case the final product is called the "as is" snapshot model, or a concept of what the process should become, resulting in a "to be" model. By comparing and contrasting "as is" and "to be" models the business analysts can determine if the existing business processes and information systems are sound and only need minor modifications, or if reengineering is required to correct problems or improve efficiency. Consequently, business process modeling and subsequent analysis can be used to fundamentally reshape the way an enterprise conducts its operations. 

Now I question if this really was an improvement. In the new version the original intention, why I put this text here in the first place, got kind of lost. In the beginning text is added which was allready in the precious section of the article. Now I don't really want to turn this back yet. I will first explain.
 * I my opinion the new text has been rewritten to explain the business model
 * But the text was added to (only) explain process modelling and data modelling in software development process.

Now I do think this article should have a section focussing business models, but this should be a new section. This article is just beeing redeveloped and I only starting to realize right now that it is missing several sections. Now I am thinking about a new (expanded) lay out here: Now the section above could be in the data modelling section on the end of the article. The article itselve should explain first about the elementary building blocks. If not, all is becoming to complex and a bad introduction.
 * Overview
 * History
 * Business process modelling topics
 * Business
 * Business process
 * Business model
 * Businss process modelling
 * Types of business process modelling
 * Related types of modelling
 * Process modelling
 * Enterprise modelling
 * Data modelling
 * Meta-process modelling
 * Related fields

So if you ask me, I think this article needes more work that just a rewrite to make more sense.

-- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 16:26, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Pasted in the wrong article
The following text was pasted in the wrong article.
 * There are different styles for representing processes: "scripts," "programs," and "hypertext." Process scripts are interactively used by humans as against process programs which are enacted by a machine. They support non determinism whereas process programs can, at best, support process deviation under pre-defined constraints. The hypertext style of process representation is a network of links between the different aspects of a process, such as product parts, decisions, arguments, issues, etc. Scripts and programs are two styles which may be applicable to prescriptive purposes whereas hypertext is well suited to descriptive and explanatory purposes. Strict enforcement of the prescriptive purpose can clearly be represented in process programs whereas flexible guidance requires the process model to be represented in process scripts. Descriptive and explanatory purposes require the establishment of relationships between different elements of a process trace. These relationships are well articulated as hypertext links.


 * {| class="wikitable"

!Perspective !Scripts !Programs !Hypertext
 * + Process Representation style
 * Usage
 * Interactively used by humans
 * Enacted by a machine
 * rowspan=2 | Network of links between the different aspects of a process, such as product parts, decisions, arguments, issues, etc.
 * Character
 * Support non determinism
 * Support, at best, process deviation under pre-defined constraints
 * Applicability
 * Applicable to prescriptive purposes (flexible guidance)
 * Applicable to prescriptive purposes (strict enforcement)
 * Applicable to descriptive and explanatory purposes
 * }
 * Applicable to prescriptive purposes (strict enforcement)
 * Applicable to descriptive and explanatory purposes
 * }


 * Traditionally, informal notations such as natural languages or diagrams with informal semantics have been used as process models underlying information systems. In software engineering, more formal process models have been used.

User:donector —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.23.162.212 (talk) 13:26, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I think removing this text here is a good idea. It doesn't seems really connected. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 14:49, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Virus infection on external link
Link removed to talk page (reported to domain holder GoDaddy.com) as Kaspersky reports it has a trojan "The requested object is INFECTED with the following viruses: Trojan-Clicker.JS.Agent.ma"


 * Business Process Modeling Forum A web community dedicated to Business Process Modeling topics. CAUTION - Currently infected with trojan virus Trojan-Clicker.JS.Agent.ma 11 June 2010

Further information on Kaspersky forums indicates it as an issue with out of date apache servers allowing the script on the home page to become infected with a click-jacking frame (an invisible frame that leads to another site that will typically try to download malware). ComplyAnt (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:18, 11 June 2010 (UTC).

Details about IDEF program removed
I removed the mentioning of Dennis E. Wisnosky in the history section for two reasons:


 * 1) That info related to IDEF and is already mentioned in the Integrated Computer-Aided Manufacturing article
 * 2) This info doesn't directly related to Business process modeling, and is irrelevant here, or at least to detailled.

-- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 20:41, 22 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Now I have improved the Dennis E. Wisnosky article, and understand some more about the background here. Wisnosky was the (first) projectleader of the ICAM project, that defined the IDEF requirements. In the series of IDEF modeling languages two related to BPM: IDEF0 and IDEF3. IDEF0 was derived from the established graphic modeling language Structured Analysis and Design Technique (SADT) developed by Douglas T. Ross and SofTech, Inc.. And IDEF3 is developed by Richard J. Mayer and others in the 1980/1990s. It seems to me Ross and Mayer are just as important as Wisnosky to mention.


 * And if you start listing the designers and project managers of this one modelling languages, shouldn't we also consider adding the other designers and project managers as well. I don't think so. Better not to mention any person here. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 00:30, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Hey, that's fine. You make a good point about other involved in their respective fields also. I was only responding to someone having removed a reference to him saying that it wasn't proven (maybe because his name was misspelt as Wiznosky); so I attached evidence and re-added him with the correct spelling. If that person had made the comment you did I would not have bothered. Thanks. Greyskinnedboy (talk) 08:24, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh, that was you too. Never mind. Your new points were well made and sound, so he remains (unattached). Greyskinnedboy (talk) 08:26, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

New image with better resolution
Hi, sorry if this is not the right place, but I created a high-resolution, non-JPEG version of the image shown in the article, but I don't have the rights/know how to upload it. It's here, if anyone wants to replace it... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jesjimenez (talk • contribs) 07:07, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi, this is the code to add the image in the center. If you remove the "center" text in the code, the image automatically is placed on the right side.



Now I noticed your image could/should be improved. It seems to me the lines are to thin. Good luck. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 12:03, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Done, I uploaded a new version of the image with thicker lines, it's definitely more readable.--Jesjimher (talk) 16:52, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Copied and pasted from various Wikipedia articles
This article or section appears to have been copied and pasted from various Wikipedia articles, possibly in violation of a copyright. This has occurred starting last year Nov 11, 2008 untill Jan 2009, when I have expanded this article.

I apologize for all inconvenience I have caused here, see also here. If you would like to assist in improving this article, please let me know. I can use all the help I can get. Thank you.

-- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 00:00, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Copy-paste registration
-- Mdd (talk) 20:16, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * In this edit text is copy/pasted from the process modeling article.
 * In this edit text is copy/pasted from the data modelling article.
 * In this edit text is copy/pasted from the workflow article.
 * In this edit text is copy/pasted from the business process article.
 * In this edit text is copy/pasted from the Business Process Management article.
 * In this edit text is copy/pasted from the Business reference model article.

BPMN as Programming Language?
As the acronym BPML tells it is a modeling notation. Modeling is on a differnet conceptual level than implementing (prgramming). A comparable difference exists between an Entity Relationship Diagram (Model) and the Data Definition Language (DDL) that can be generated from the model.

Of course it is possible to derive implemetation artefacts (like BPEL) from a model, nevertheless this aspect should not be central to this article since it is about the modeling.

Therefore I suggest to rewrite the chapter "Programming language tools for BPM" making a clear distinction between modeling and implementing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.134.210.252 (talk) 13:53, 3 October 2011 (UTC)