Talk:Butler–FitzGerald dispute

2006 posts
Wikipedia is not a dictionary. Also, as an origin for the phrase, this story sounds pretty apocryphal. Joestynes 11:20, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * And the point is? A dictionary defines words. This is about a historic incident that produced a term. So it belongs on wikipedia. As to the story, it is widely sourced. The term did not exist before the period where the historic incident happened. Its first appearance occured less than one year afterwards. So the timescale of the term's appearance matches exactly the incident that historians credit with the origins of the term. It is also accepted as a term that emerged in Hiberno-English. So the timescale matches. So does the location and language. Fear ÉIREANN  20:33, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * A dictionary also gives the etymologies of words, of which this is purportedly an example. If it describes a historic incident the title of the article should be something like Butler-Fitzgerald dispute (1492).  Since all the links are currently red, it is merely a tourist titbit devoid of any context.  If and when Garret Óg et al. have proper articles, it would be appropriate to move the "chancing one's arm" definition to Wiktionary and link to the relevant Wikipedia article as an etymology (perhaps meriting a parenthetic note from the article back to the term).
 * As regards the reliability of the stated theory of origin, WorldWideWords rejects it on the grounds that the term is not recorded before the Victorian period, and offers several alternative theories. If there is indeed evidence of usage from 1493 as you state, it's worth stating exactly what it is; I doubt I'm the only one who will be dubious of the existing article.  Joestynes 03:57, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Adding note on factual dispute for that same reason. 63.245.189.168


 * The story is sourced. By all means, add a note, sourced to WorldWideWords, that it is disputed there, but I don't think that that alone merits disfiguring the article. James James 05:57, 26 December 2005 (UTC)


 * The story is not sourced in the article. I have offered contrary sources and moved it to a more appropriate name. If the historical dispute is so famous, please add more details and sources about its causes and other events leading up to the Hollywood resolution. Joestynes 00:45, 8 February 2006 (UTC)