Talk:Butovo firing range

Poor quality source
The source for the sentence "The youngest person executed was 13-year-old Misha Shamonin, an orphan street boy, for the theft of two loaves of bread." is written by Russian artist Lena Hades in a short piece about her art. This piece is in turn unsourced. Is there a better source for the claim? Jamesthewarlock (talk) 09:11, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
 * BBC in 2007 writes of Shamonin,, his mugshot is featured in posters.Pikavoom (talk) 09:18, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

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 * Bela Kun NKVD.jpg
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Burial only?
A great number of sites throughout the length and breadth of Russia can be accurately described as Execution and Burial sites (see [Russia's Necropolis]. They are the classic killing fields of the Great Terror in the USSR.

It is important, therefore, to note that many other sites were for burial only. The victims were shot elsewhere, e.g. the local or regional NKVD headquarters, and then transported to the already prepared burial site. This distinction is confused by the popular euphemistic term adopted in the late 1930s for such areas: after setting aside such large plots and surrounding them with fencing, sentries and barbed wire the NKVD would tell locals that these were new "firing ranges".

The most accurate source about the Butovo memorial complex is the Russia's Necropolis website, and it states that only anecdotal evidence unconfirmed by documentary proof exists to support the claim that Butovo was itself a killing field, i.e. a place of execution.

Something, therefore, should be done with the title of this piece -- and that of the companion item about Kommunarka Rustat99 (talk) 04:17, 5 December 2021 (UTC) Anadyn Amar and the rest of the Mongolian leadership should be exhumed and reburied in Mongolia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.108.115.229 (talk) 03:19, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

Shot in one place, buried in another
A clear and well-documented example of what is mentioned in the previous section is provided by the fate of Polish internees in the Tver Region.

They were shot in the cellars of the NKVD regional headquarters in Tver (["NKVD regional HQ, Tver", Russia's Necropolis]) in April-May 1940 and then their bodies were transported 20 miles from the city to a wooded site near Yarmok village and buried there in unmarked graves: today those burials form part of the Mednoe complex.

Rustat99 (talk) 05:13, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Errors in materials due to an unreliable source of information.
The statement that 13-year-old Misha Shamonin was convicted of "stealing two loaves of bread" does not correspond to reality. According to the materials of the investigative case, he was shot for killing a woman with a knife while intoxicated, as well as because of a knife attack on another woman and a pensioner, he also belonged to a gang of juvenile delinquents, had two criminal records and escaped from prison 8 times. That's why this guy is not rehabilitated in Russia. Also, the documents state that he was born in 1922, so he is not 13, but 14-15 years old (the source of all the information above: "Butovsky landfill. 1937-1938 . The Book of Memory of the victims of political repression. Issue 8. In his native land. Documents, testimonies, destinies." Moscow.: "Alzo", 2004. p. 206). Also, about a month ago, Russia published a scan of the full archival version of the investigative case of this guy on more than 100 sheets, from which it is clear that this is just a juvenile delinquent, and not any "innocently repressed for two loaves of bread." 188.234.228.54 (talk) 11:15, 11 December 2023 (UTC)