Talk:Butte, Montana/Archive 1

Butte or Silver Bow?
Talk moved from: User:Maveric149/Images - Cities


 * The Butte, Montana page here has problems as the census data for Butte and Silver Bow County, Montana are mixed in some strange way because the County and City share one government called Butte-Silver Bow. They look like Butte to me, I've driven through there many times on the way to Helena, Montana. The "M" on the mountain in the right one is for Montana Tech, which is in Butte. -- RTC 01:45 16 Jul 2003 (UTC)


 * OK, thanks for the info! Should these photos go on Silver Bow County, Montana then? --mav


 * Copying part of the material I put on User talk:Ram-Man:


 * "Well, I think I may have it, but I am only about 90% sure as there are things that still don't make sense.


 * Butte-Silver Bow, Montana and Butte-Silver Bow (balance), Montana are identical and are probably the data for the town of Butte itself.
 * Silver Bow County, Montana and Butte-Silver Bow (town), Montana are identical and are the data for the combined City/County of Butte-Silver Bow."


 * Confusing, isn't it? I think they belong in a Butte, Montana article, but that will be difficult to write until the above 4 articles (and maybe others) are untangled. -- RTC 21:00 16 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Yes! I have it now. The area data that didn't make sense before now does. Apparently when the Butte City government merged with the Silver Bow County government to form the single entity of Butte-Silver Bow, it appears that Butte annexed ALL of the unincorporated land remaining in the county. So for all practical purposes (except for a few small towns that were already incorporated) the city of Butte now fills Silver Bow County. Somewhat like San Francisco, California completely fills San Francisco County, California, but without containing other separately incorporated towns in the county. -- RTC 17:08, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Suggest moving the Copper Kings section to separate article
I'm not prepared to update the text fully, but I feel the need to copy & paste the section on the three men to a separate article, as they are historically important figures. I've decided to do this, but suspect I may be violating copy/paste rules, even though it's from one Wikipedia page to another. I'll add new content to both as well. Tell me what you think. Astro jpc 23:29, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Butte Rats link
The link to the forum is not an official community link. It's just an online forum, that by Wikipedia standard guidelines really doesn't belong on in this article. Not to mention that there is a link to The Montana Standard allready. I would recomend placing it in Wiki Travel instead. Rsm99833 — Preceding undated comment added 20:37, 13 April 2006

Wikilinks
See WP:MOS-L -- linking years throughout the article is adding noise, not context. And that would be bad enough if they were only Wikilinked once, and not repetitively as was the case in this article. --Walor 16:17, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Open Containers
The copy early on points out that Butte is the 'only city' where open containers of liquor are allowed at any time, which it footnotes FIVE times, but the source is always the same newspaper. In fact, except during Prohibition, the City of New Orleans has never had a closed container law! Further,in the State of Louisiana, you can have an open container in your car, so long as it is in the possession of a passenger and not the driver. I'm not recommending it, merely pointing out that newspaper editors are not necessarily very good sources of information when you're talking about their home town and such words as 'highest, lowest, most, only, least, unique, outstanding,...' Lamabillybob 15:02, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I removed the line once, when the only source was what is now ref. #5, a statement to the reporter by a man on the street. #5 is still not a reliable source. Geologyguy 15:09, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Fire & Brimstone
Tells the tale of The North Butte Mining Disastor, & Manus Duggan. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.159.176.57 (talk) 18:38, 23 February 2007 (UTC).

Great book for any Butteian to read I might add... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seattlehawk94 (talk • contribs) 16:26, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation?
Think of "Beautiful Butte America" Butte is pronounced the same as the first syllable of beautiful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.112.202.19 (talk) 15:44, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Bute? But? Butty? Rothorpe (talk) 23:17, 31 January 2008 (UTC)


 * One syllable, Byut, u as in you, silent e. Rhymes with cute.Geologyguy (talk) 03:14, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll put it in. Rothorpe (talk) 15:43, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Butte Labor History
Any accounting of Butte's history is very incomplete without an account of the poor working conditions in it's mines, the Granite Mountain Mine disaster, and the labor activism and Anaconda company violence that followed - particularly the IWW organizing, and the Frank Little assasination and aftermath. This absence is so glaring that the POV of the article is called into question. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 199.115.9.254 (talk) 20:15, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

I agree, and filled a similar lack regarding Superfund. Someone familiar with labor history needs to fill this gap! EcoRover 19:42, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd be happy to fulfill that goal, and i have the resources and knowledge to do so.


 * However, the idea of including labor history in the Butte article appears to be controversial, at least with one editor:


 * 


 * Consider, the Western Federation of Miners (WFM) was founded in Butte. It is, historically, a very significant organization, not only to Butte, but also to the history of the U.S. and Canada. But this edit deleted all references to the WFM in this article.


 * Here's what the carefully referenced text had said before that deletion:

Labor organizations

Butte was also known as "the Gibraltar of Unionism", with a very active labor union movement that sought to counter the power and influence of the Anaconda company, which was also simply known as "The Company."

By 1885, there were about 1,800 dues-paying members of a general union in Butte. That year the union reorganized as the Butte Miners' Union (BMU), spinning off all non-miners to separate craft unions. Some of these joined the Knights of Labor, and by 1886 the separate organizations came together to form the Silver Bow Trades and Labor Assembly, with 34 separate unions representing nearly all of the 6,000 workers around Butte. The BMU established branch unions in mining towns like Barker, Castle, Champion, Granite, and Neihart, and extended support to other mining camps hundreds of miles away.

In 1892 there was a violent strike in Coeur d'Alene. Although the BMU was experiencing relatively friendly relations with local management, the events in Idaho were disturbing. The BMU not only sent thousands of dollars to support the Idaho miners, they mortgaged their buildings to send more.

There was a growing concern that local unions were vulnerable to the power of Mine Owners' Associations like the one in Coeur d'Alene. In May, 1893, about forty delegates from northern hard rock mining camps met in Butte, and established the Western Federation of Miners (WFM), which sought to organize miners throughout the West. The Butte Miners' Union became Local Number One of the new WFM. The WFM won a strike in Cripple Creek, Colorado the following year, but then in 1896-97 lost another violent strike in Leadville, Colorado, prompting the Montana State Trades and Labor Council to issue a proclamation to organize a new Western labor federation along industrial lines.

End deleted content


 * The edit summary declared, (Revert this is about BUTTE, MONTANA not an advertisment for Communism)


 * This reflects some confusion about the history, the WFM wasn't communist (the Communist Party didn't exist as a viable entity anywhere in North America during the lifetime of the Western Federation of Miners). Indeed, historians have written many books about how the philosophy and politics of the WFM grew out of the miners' western heritage, and their experiences in the mines. But it isn't confusion that prompted this edit; it appears, rather, to be an antagonism toward the actual history of Butte.


 * There likewise wasn't discussion about deleting this material on the talk page, nor any suggestion about off-loading the labor history section to another article and linking to it, or any other possible compromise...


 * But no matter; if this sort of information isn't welcome in the Butte article, i'll edit elsewhere. Richard Myers (talk) 00:52, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Thoughts and Prayers...
If anyone who lost anyone in this horrible event is reading this our hearts in the Butte community go out to you and your families at this time...--seattlehawk94 (talk) 14:03, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Notable People from Butte
Lucille Ball was born in and raised near Jamestown, NY. Jamestown is in Western NYS, which isn't anywhere near NYC. Lucille Ball IMDB Official Site Moggsy 17:23, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * About 3/4 of this list could safely be cut, especially when it comes to the actors/artists, sports figures, and politicians on this list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.201.137.57 (talk) 09:32, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Quit posting "Free Beer" guy and "Chris Michaels. They are small time radio jocks in markets that no one cares about. Someone made the comment about Milt Popovich, well...He played in the NFL which means he is one of only a select few. Radio jocks aren't select company. If you want to list a radio jock who's tie to Butte is being raised there...Then list ALL of Butte's current and past local TV personalities and radio jocks as well and do bios for EACH and EVERY ONE then those two unknowns get on this page., Now if Jim Rome, Howard Stern, Dan Rather, Rick Dees etc were raised or started in Butte they'd be worth listing, a small time jock isn't worth being added to the list.

On a similar note, Dashiell Hammett was born in Maryland. It appears that he spent time in Butte while working for Pinkerton, but calling him a native constitutes misinformation. Also, Hammett is famous for the hard-boiled detective novel&mdash;not for having worked at Pinkerton. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.120.6.56 (talk) 18:32, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Since the airport is named for him, Bert Mooney should be listed. Aviator and aircraft designer. 76.4.243.226 (talk) 16:27, 31 October 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.4.243.226 (talk) 16:23, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Did he live there at any time? If so, he should be; if not, he shouldn't be.  Nyttend (talk) 21:47, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Recent History
I made a more precise and accurate account of Butte-Silver Bow's population. The previous paragraph inaccurately stated that Butte's population had held steady since 1960. Actually the old city limit population between 1960 and 1980 dropped nearly 30%, from 33,251 to 23,368! The county population dropped from 46,454 to 38,092, then on down to 33,941 by 1990. (these figures include Walkerville). I then added the latest 2008 Census estimate of 32,119. ( which is Butte-Silver Bow, which of course does not include Walkerville) All these figures are available on the census website (www.census.gov) where I obtained them on this day, 02/11/2010.

Longnskinny (talk) 08:54, 12 February 2010 (UTC)Longnskinny

Why was my change deleted in recent history? Longnskinny (talk) 14:13, 13 February 2010 (UTC)longnskinny
 * You didn't cite any reliable sources for the edits; if you want to use something from the Census Bureau's website, you'll have to add a link to that to show where you got it. I don't know how to go from census.gov to estimates pages, so without a link to the right page, I can't verify that what you wrote is accurate.  Nyttend (talk) 05:48, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

The previous statement that the population had held steady didn't have ANY references at all and was not even close to being accurate or truthful. Anyone smart enough to edit these pages should not have difficulty finding population figures or estimates on the very well used U.S. Census Bureau website. Obtained on this day: 02/15/2010Longnskinny (talk) 23:26, 15 February 2010 (UTC)longnskinny

Why was my info deleted again? Longnskinny (talk) 20:24, 23 February 2010 (UTC)longnskinny
 * You didn't cite any sources. Nyttend (talk) 20:27, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes I did cite sources. You deleted them.Longnskinny (talk) 20:38, 23 February 2010 (UTC)longnskinny
 * No, there were never any sources that I deleted. Nyttend (talk) 01:07, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

There were indeed. Quit deleting my contributions for no reason, please.Longnskinny (talk) 23:40, 26 February 2010 (UTC)longnskinny
 * I can't delete something that wasn't there in the first place. Find me some sources, please?  Nyttend (talk) 04:18, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Quit deleting my material. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Longnskinny (talk • contribs) 05:15, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

I am trying to find some info on my great grandfathers mineing accident some time in the 50's. His last name was Giecek.He was in and explsion in the copper mine and was blinded. Any info would be helpfull. You can contact me at cgiecek@twincitytrailer.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.145.210.197 (talk) 16:18, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Largest Superfund Site
Can the reference to the largest superfund site be verified, deleted or qualified. Tar Creek in Oklahoma also claims itself as the largest superfund site, encompassing 50 sq miles. The closest I've found is :http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2002/March/02_enrd_180.htm which indicates it is the superfund site with the largest body of contaminated water in the United States. Bangfrog 21:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Check the EPA records on this being the largest Superfund site. It is THE megasite, being so large that it was split into three smaller sites, each a megasite in itself: (1) Butte (including the Butte hill, Berkeley Pit, Silver-Bow Creek, and several smaller associated Operable Units); (2) Anaconda (including smelter hill, Old Works smelter, community soils, and several smaller associated Operable Units); and (3) Milltown (including the dam, towns of Milltown and Bonner, and Clark Fork River). The total length of this upper Clark Fork River basin megasite is about 120 miles, and the Superfund corridor along this length ranges from a few to over 20 miles wide. See map. EcoRover 19:41, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I eliminated numerous redundancies in this section and changed the corporate name from Arco to the preferred ARCO. It had stated that "agency personnel" were concerned about the problems on the site in the '70s so I changed that to "environmental agency personnel," in lieu of doing detailed research to identify which specific agency or agencies might have been involved. The EPA was created in December 1970, consolidating the functions of other agencies. Thanks to Bangfrog and EcoRover for the question and detailed answer regarding the size of the site. Activist (talk) 00:12, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Butte is not the capital of Montana - Helena is
The opening sentence of the page lists Butte as the capital of Montana. The capital of Montana is Helena, and I know this to be true from the Animaniacs "Wakko's America" 50 states and capitals song, which I may add is very catchy and helpful for learning all the states and their capitals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.25.39.160 (talk) 02:02, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Time to re-organise the article name?
The official name is Butte-Silver Bow according to the official website. Would it be time to migrate this page to this new one? Mattximus (talk) 19:49, 17 June 2016 (UTC)


 * No. The government is a consolidated entity, but the community has not been renamed.   Montanabw (talk)  04:54, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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City-county
The city of Butte is not the entire county; there is a consolidated city-county government, but there is an Urban Boundary, shown by this image from the Butte-Silver Bow government page. the 2010 version of this map may be more readable. The boundaries need to be fixed; only a small portion of the county is urban. Montanabw (talk) 03:49, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The rest of the information in the box is based on the full area, though, not just the "urban" portion. If there's going to be a map showing the boundary, it should be the boundary on which the other figures are based, which is the red area on the current map. It might be better to just avoid the boundary altogether, as in the Anaconda article.-- Ibagli ( Talk ) 08:47, 8 June 2017 (UTC)