Talk:Butyl rubber

Variois polyisobutylene references
Waters, P.F. 2000. Global warming reduction by polymers in automobile fuels. American Chemical Society 220th national meeting. August 22-24. Washington, D.C.

Waters, P.F., and J.C. Trippe. 2000. New concepts in octane boosting of fuels for internal combustion engines. American Chemical Society 220th national meeting. August 22-24. Washington, D.C.

Graham Swift G.S. Polymer Consultants 215 Winged Foot Drive Blue Bell, PA 19422

Paul F. Waters Department of Chemistry American University 4400 Massachusetts Avenue, N.W. Washington, DC 20016

http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/members/1994/Suppl-4/hammerle-full.html

http://deq.mt.gov/CleanSnowmobile/solutions/fuels/summareynp.pdf

EPA GE Case Studies. Polyisobutylene...in automobile emissions and improvements in gas mileage were observed as a result of using lightweight ... For straight oil fluids, polyisobutylene (PIB) can be added to control mist ...www.epa.gov/opptintr/greenengineering/case_studies.html

Polyisobutylene in fuel
While researching the claims made by an individual who sells polyisobutylene as a fuel mileage enhancer, I found that PIB is used as a detergent additive in gasoline and diesel fuel and has some interesting properties related to oil dispersion. The material I added is easily verifiable; just read the articles I linked to. I am somewhat concerned that posting this limited factual information could lead to exploitation by certain persons, however, I don't think that's a good reason to ignore the information.

However, continue to beware claims of miraculous gas mileage increases. The studies cited above do not support claims of improved fuel mileage. They report that PIB as an additive to fuel reduces some emissions and reduces fuel injector build-up, but none of the reports say anything about fuel mileage. Furthermore, as BASF has been marketing polyisobutylene as a gasoline additive since before 2000, it's probably already in your gas, so why buy it by the bottle on top of what you already pay? Plus the fact that it is already in use proves that it doesn't extend mileage. Finally, I was alerted to the BASF connection by a radio talk show host's web site who alleged that the government was blocking BASF from importing PIB as part of a vast conspiracy of some kind. I actually did find the lawsuit; it is is a tarriff dispute. BASF says the PIB formula it manufactures overseas and imports should be classified as polyisobutylene (6.5% tarriff) but the US customs dept says it should be classified as a fuel additive (9.3% tarriff). That's the big conspiracy. Thatcher131 05:04, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Confusion between polyisobutylene and butyl rubber
In my opinion this article mixes up the two different materials mentioned above. Butyl rubber (IIR) is a copolymer and an elastomer, Polyisobutylene (also called Polyisobutene (PIB)) however is a homopolymer and thermoplastic. I think the information given in this article concerning PIB should be moved to the already existing text Polyisobutene. How do you feel about this?

Regards NickFr 15:55, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree, there is a lot of confusion here. As you say, butyl rubber is a copolymer of isobutylene and isoprene, and is an elastomter, whilst polyisobutylene (e.g. Exxon "Vistanex" or BASF "Oppanol") is a homopolymer of isobutylene only, and is thermoplastic. To add further complexity, there is also the issue of "polybutenes" (e.g. the old Amoco "Indopol" or BP "Napvis" grades) which are copolymers of n-butylene and isobutylene (with a minor amount of n-paraffins), which are liquids of various viscosities. Simon Moore 24.9.08 (20 years experience of formulating and blending with PB and PIBs) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.198.33.252 (talk) 12:51, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Merge
Seen the above discussion, it looks like the articles have to be merged, but I am not a polymer chemist. Could someone have a look into this? --Dirk Beetstra T C 09:57, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

It is correct that butyl rubber is polyisobutylene containing a third (unsaturated) monomer, in order to make the material crosslinkable. Otherwise polyisobutylene cannot be reacted into a network. However, polyisobutylene itself is NOT a thermoplastic; it is a rubber. Sometimes rubber after crosslinking is called an elastomer. So by this terminology, both butyl rubber and polyisobutylene are rubbers, but only the former could be an elastomer.


 * The article presently states "Polyisobutylene is produced by polymerization of about 98% of isobutylene with about 2% of isoprene". That sounds a bit...off. Looks like the merge conflated two related but different things rather than giving a unified discussion of both of them:( DMacks (talk) 16:33, 20 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree. Though I am not expert in this field I think two different materials are mixed up in this article. NickFr (talk) 22:30, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Split request declined
There has been a split request, then a merge, then another split request. The article as it stands appears to work as it says  "Polyisobutylene ... was later developed into butyl rubber" - it is clear that one has to be discussed in relation to the other, and butyl rubber is the primary topic. There doesn't appear to be enough material for a standalone article about polyisobutylene, though if enough material is collected, and a section on polyisobutylene within this article become large enough, then it can be split out per WP:Summary style.  SilkTork  *YES! 23:01, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Use in deodorant
Reading the article I am not sure what does in the Nivea Balance deodorant I bought the other day. Any suggestions? Benkeboy 19:00, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Isoprene content
Is the isoprene serve as cross-linking unit, does it merely polymerize at one of its olefins (giving a linear polyethylene with vinyl sidechains), or does it polymerize as the diene unit (giving an linear unsaturated chain)? Everything I know about polymerization and such says "cross-linking", but a question on the Science Reference Desk asked about "hydrogenated polyisobutene" (listed as an ingredient in hand lotion). DMacks (talk) 10:59, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Butyl rubber sheet
There is an important omission in the uses section.

Butyl Rubber sheet is used to line reservoirs to stop them leaking. This is possible bacause sheets can be welded together on-site. Butyl rubber is extremely resistent to weather including ultra violet light. Butyl rubber can be used for waterproofing flat roofs, after which, if secured properly, it should not need maintenance. Why people continue to use tar based products for flat roofs I really don't understand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.67.149.60 (talk) 07:20, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Proposed revision of the History of Butly rubber.
I came into posession of the papers of Lewis Bannon, a participant in the development of butyl rubber starting in 1933 and including its mass production in Baton Rouge, Louisiana during WWII. I am not a researcher so I will post the document as written by Lewis Bannon.

"History of Butyl Rubber

In the early 1930's the research laboratories located at Bayway received a sample of viscous liquid isobutylene polymer from the I. G. Farbindustry in Germany, with whom Exxon had a cartel agreement to exchange inventions. This polymer was found to be an excellent V.I. improver in motor oil. A plant was built to make this product called Paratone. Dr. H.G. Schneider and his assistant Lewis Bannon the two chemists who had worked on producing this material to be used in motor oil found that by purifying the isobutylene further a more viscous (higher molecular weight) polymer could be produced if the temperature which rose rapidly during the reaction could be controlled. Whereas this could be done in producing the low molecular weight Paratone by conventional methods it was very difficult in efforts to make the higher molecular weight material due to the speed of the reaction. As a result powdered dry ice(carbon dioxide) was resorted to and worked very well as long as moisture, which killed the reaction, could be excluded from the open reactor vessel. The low temperature of the dry ice caused moisture condensation from the atmosphere. Over a period of a couple of years higher and higher molecular weight, solid material, was made as the purity of isobutylene was increased. Isobutylene which was plentiful in the refinery C-4 cut (butylenes and butanes) was burned in the boiler house because it is a gas and too light to include in gasoline. Finally a solid rubber like product was being made. It was called Vistanex. Because the material was saturated it could not be vulcanized( cross linked) like rubber to make a tough product. A small pilot plant was built using liquid ethylene mixed with the isobutyle in a batch reactor. The purpose of the pilot plant was to produce small quantities of Vistanex to ship to the trade in an effort to develop a use for it. This was done for a year or so without a need being developed. While making a batch one day the reaction was so violent the head was blown off of the steel reactor. The operator( Bannon) started experimenting with different methods to find a way to control the reaction so that the product could be made in a continuous process. He was able to do this before the unit was shut down but because no use had been found for the product it was not used. However, a patent was applied for in October 1936 and finally granted. The following year Thomas and Sparks found a way to make the polymer with a small amount of di-olefin in it which made it vulcanizable. Under normal conditions by which the polymer was made a diolefin would have poisoned the reaction."

Mr. Bannon does indeed posess three butyl rubber related patents, two of which are 2,317,878 and 2,281,911.

I also have the life story of Mr. Bannon in my possession which is very interesting should anybody wish to read it. Much of the history of butyl rubber appears to come from text books on the subject. Because of the secrecy involved with synthetic rubber production during WWII some of its history has been deliberately obscured. I hope this information clarifies the subject. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.203.148.22 (talk) 20:47, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

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