Talk:Buzz Aldrin/Archive 1

claiming or indicating he felt forced to defend himself?
He claimed he punched Sibrel because he felt forced to defend himself. Punching someone does not automatically 'indicate' self defense. For great justice. 21:08, 16 May 2006 (UTC)


 * That misconstrues the new statement: he personally indicated, his punch didn't indicate; he "indicated" rather than "claimed". "Claimed" is a loaded word that connotes "claimed falsely" in this kind of usage; "Kenneth Lay claimed he had no idea Enron was in trouble..." "Indicated" is a neutral substitute. - Reaverdrop 21:16, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I claim that I think that's ok as long as we disambiguate the word 'indicated' from the act of punching. My worry is that we are claiming that the act of punching indicated that he felt the need for self defense! Thanks for discussing it! For great justice. 21:17, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Is Bart 'agressive' or 'assertive'
Agressive has conotations of violence, and Bart was not violent. Assertive implies persistance, which he certainly showed. For great justice. 21:13, 16 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Aggressive doesn't necessarily connote violence. Stalking a total stranger for years, sneaking up on him and his relative on an evening out and insisting that he put his hand on a bible and swear that his Moon landing was not a hoax, is already way beyond justifying "aggressive" and making "assertive" way, way too tame and slanted in his favor to be NPOV. - Reaverdrop 21:18, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
 * In the context of Buzz's violent outburst, it makes it look as if Bart's thorough investigation is somehow unreasonable. How can we make it clear that Bart was in no way physically agressive? For great justice. 21:23, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
 * It already doesn't say he did anything physically aggressive... but, per my comments above, this John Hinckley-esque behavior was already far askew from a mere "thorough investigation", and even merely "aggressive" is almost too gentle a description to keep NPOV. The only surprising thing is that Sibrel hadn't already been apprehended by the police for stalking. - Reaverdrop 21:29, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't see what assassination has to do with it. Trying to get a key member of the hoax to swear his innocence doesn't seem unreasonable to me. For great justice. 21:31, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
 * He tracked him and other astronauts for years, frequently lying to gain access to them, personally confronting them in the midst of their social lives. This is stalking and it is criminal behavior, of a behavioral pattern nearly indistinguishable from John Hinckley's in the years leading up to his encounter with Reagan. Real historical, journalistic and scientific investigators and polemicists do not engage in criminal stalking. Sibrel should already have been in prison, and I have little doubt Aldrin was both legally and morally justified in defending himself and his relative with physical force by that point. But your matter-of-factly referring to the Moon landings as "the hoax" makes your particular point of view clear. - Reaverdrop 22:30, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I presume that if it were criminal behavior, Aldrin would have pressed charges. Your point of view about Aldrin is not relevant. The video is clear, Sibrel does not threaten Aldrin. For great justice. 15:48, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Wrong Arm
Isn't his left arm crooked, not his right? --MosheA 00:34, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Moving Page?
"Buzz Aldrin" is a tad informal. Shouldn't this page more properly be located at "Edwin Aldrin, Jr.", with a "Buzz Aldrin" redirect? Jenolen 10:10, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


 * He apparently had his name officially changed (see article). AnonMoos 16:58, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Problems Aldrin overcame
I'll admit I only skimmed the article, but I didn't see anything about Aldrin's depression and alcoholism - two big parts of his life. If someone can do a little research and add a passage about these problems, the article would be much more complete. 69.210.56.40 00:10, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Flag fell over
I have removed the claim that Aldrin "revealed" on 13-03-2007 the flag fell over. While he did mention it in that lecture, he has been telling it for years. On a sidenote, I though that in that 13-03-07 lecture he said Armstrong saw it falling over, but most sources say Aldrin saw it. They didn't immediately inform NASA about that, because they didn't want to spoil the fun. But it has been kown for years. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.161.74.202 (talk) 13:45, 16 March 2007 (UTC).


 * I see the comment has been placed again into the article. Why? It is incorrect. I will not remove it again, but would like to know the argument supporting placing that claim agin into the article, when that claim can be easily proven wrong. I know it's been on the news, but that doesn't make it right. The fact is known for years, and ALdrin has been telling it for years. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.161.74.202 (talk) 11:06, 19 March 2007 (UTC).


 * I looked it up, it's in Aldrin's 1973 book "Return to Earth", where he states he (Aldin) could see the flag fall over at ascent. I have removed the comment. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nicolas Herdwick (talk • contribs) 11:32, 19 March 2007 (UTC).

Eugene
Only in Wikipedia have I ever seen the name "Buzz Eugene Aldrin" — I've always heard it as "Buzz Aldrin" and believe that he dropped "Eugene" along with "Edwin" when he changed his name.Kevin Forsyth 14:14, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

First on the Moon?
OK, someone go look at the Trivia section and see #9 "Aldrin lobbied very strongly to be the first one out of the lunar module and thus becoming the first man to set foot on the moon on the Apollo 11 mission"

I wasn't alive when this happened, but I think all those books (and wikipedia articles) I've read all correctly state that Armstrong was first on the moon. It seems to be backed up by a source. Yet when I go to the Armstrong page it reads: "...famously known for being the first human ever to set foot on the Moon"

I'm at a loss of words right now. Someone


 * That just say that he really wanted to be first on the moon, not that he actually WAS the first on the moon.. (he failed in his lobbying campaign obviously)


 * The sentence was worded in an ambiguous way. I've fixed it by deleting the word "becoming". Pat Berry 04:56, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Dr. Rendezvous
This article says... "due to his inability to talk about anything other than rendezvous operations". I feel this isn't being very fair to Buzz. He got his nickname because he completed his doctoral thesis on space rendezvous. I don't want to change the page because I've gotten my hand slapped for changing pages without the Wiki gods approval, so I'll simply ask that whoever is keeping up with this page please change the line so it reads a little nicer. The way it reads now makes Buzz sound like a babbling idiot. 67.142.130.14 05:56, 21 January 2007 (UTC)


 * You have correctly identified the source of that nickname. While he might have talked a lot about it indeed, Dr Aldrin got his PhD on rendez-vous, invented strategies for rendez-vous, and practiced them during the Gemini program. So he wasn't called Dr Rendez-Vous as much for talking about it as for being the first astronaut to have a Ph.D and being the reference on the subject. He might have talked a lot about it too, I don't know about that. Will somebody rewrite that point in the article? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nicolas Herdwick (talk • contribs) 11:28, 19 March 2007 (UTC).


 * Done. Pat Berry 05:00, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

'saving the space program' - source?
What's the source for saying that Deke Slayton credited Aldrin with 'saving the space program'? (It's quoted at the end of the first para under Time as an astronaut in the Biography section.) I seem to remember from Deke! that, while not being exactly derogatory about Aldrin, Slayton wasn't his greatest fan either. I just did a quick skim through the pages where Aldrin's mentioned in the book, and it doesn't say anything about it there. Anybody any clues?--Whoosher 17:41, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

vidio clip removed
i've removed the clip of aldin stepping on the moon. i've looked at the page in IE7, Firefox, and Opera, and in all three i get the following error onscreen " : unrecognized shape at line 3, each line must start with one of: default, rect, circle or poly". if it's not happening for anyone else, then by all means restore it - but it's the only page on wikipedia that i've ever visited that generates this error, so it sure doesn't seem like it can only be me.Anastrophe 06:57, 2 October 2007 (UTC)


 * following up on myself - i think this may be an internal wikipedia error, rather than somethign wrong with the video clip itself - going way back in the archives - two years - it shows the same error with it. i'll restore in hopes the problem is fixed. Anastrophe 06:57, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Roles in the arts
Anybody else think this section is getting a bit out of hand? Surely, only the most notable roles should be listed here, but I'm not sure of the criteria for choosing which are the most notable roles. IMDB lists Aldrin participating, either as himself or in an acting or voice role, in nearly 50 projects, so presumably the list on this page could get a whole lot longer if it's not managed.--Whoosher 10:21, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

hansen quote
this is just a general comment on process - i noticed that two editors have added hidden commentary to the article, discussing whether a quote qualifies for inclusion in the article. i would respectfully submit, this is what the talk page is for. please discuss it here, rather than within hidden comments within the article. it's much easier for others to address the issues collaboratively when it's out in 'the open'. Anastrophe 08:22, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry about that "hidden" discussion
I presume I'm one of the editors doing a hidden discussion. Sorry to rile people--nothing nefarious going on. It was just that I had so many queries --which I did mention in the "save" subject line--that it seemed simpler to request that people go to the text itself. There, in the best of all worlds, a record of who edited what (a la MSoft Word) would present itself, or editors would sign their changes. Alas, an idiotic and unworkable thought on my part.

The second is more prosaic: I left a note on the Neal Armstrong entry for help in getting into the Aldrin discussion, which, as a newbie, I had forgotten how I had done it before. Again, I'm fully an open wikihead. Best to all. Shlishke 18:24, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Aldrin "too big ego" either should get massively referenced or be cut
I believe this has not been satisfactorily resolved. The hot-wire passage begins with ...or simply that Aldrin had "too big an ego." which is referenced to Hansen chap. 25, is just too hot a remark to be made w/o a page ref (I know editions change; that can be fixed in the ref list) and a squib there about who said it and on what occasion.

The quote marks in the phrase are weird. They differentiate the text from the other two paraphrases, but all three are presumably from the secondary source Hansen. This muddies the issue. It can be read two ways: Either the author(s) of the Wiki piece are being extra-responsible (or, cya) by quoting exactly from the book for this last bit, and thus need a more particular ref; or, somebody in particular said those exact words, and he or she damn well better have (if only according to Hansen), which requires the exact ref and explanatory squib.

Otherwise it should go. It's a shitty thing to say about anyone, living or dead, and if we're going to be perpetuating a disparagement, we're not in a schoolyard, with a did-you-hear-what-he said mode. Plus it explicitly violates a bunch of Wiki policies.

The sentence appears in the Armstrong entry as well, but the discussion belongs here.

Best to all, Shlishke (talk) 07:35, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Wiki stuff: 1) from WP:CITE

Biographies of living persons should be sourced with particular care, for legal and ethical reasons. All contentious material about living persons must cite a reliable source. Do not wait for another editor to request a source. If you find unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about a living person—whether in an article or on a talk page—remove it immediately. Do not leave it in the article and ask for a source. Do not move it to the talk page. This applies whether the material is in a biography or any other article.

2) The whole article, essentially, of WP:LIVING

I'm checking out of the "ego" business; I made a change in text
End of my [ personal :) ] "ego" thread with revision 00:09 8 December.  I replaced the explicit phrase with quotes with a more defensible one lifted from Armstrong article. Hasta la vista! Shlishke (talk) 00:17, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

MILHIST class assessment
I assessed at start due to the absence of citations in the honors section, and becuase that section in its current form seems a little too pop culture-ish to assess as B. TomStar81 (Talk) 06:01, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Plastic Surgery?
From the UFO section: When Aldrin appeared on The Howard Stern Show on August 15, 2007, Stern asked him about the supposed UFO sighting. Aldrin confirmed that there was no such sighting of anything deemed extraterrestrial, and said they were and are "99.9 percent" sure that the object was the detached panel.[14][15][16][17] He also said that he had plastic surgery.[18] I am going to remove that last sentence. It has nothing to do with the supposed UFO sighting. JBFrenchhorn (talk) 22:46, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Is Buzz Aldrin Swedish-American?
I saw him in the article Swedish American and he is listed as one in the categories at the bottom. Is he?


 * Aldrin is Swedish name, indeed. I think his family is from Scania (like Charles Lindbergh's), but I am not sure. // JiPe (217.208.136.32 (talk) 00:25, 15 January 2009 (UTC))

Biography and band
The Trivia section currently includes this statement: "Aldrin's 1989 biography Men From Earth was the inspiration for the band of the same name." That's nonsense. First of all, Aldrin's autobiography is Return to Earth. Men From Earth is not a biography and was not published in 1989. And if you actually follow that link and look at the band's website, you'll learn that the band's name was not inspired by Aldrin, but by the TV show Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons.

I'm going to delete this statement from the article. Pat Berry 04:48, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

His name Buz was his pilot name I know this because he was a friend of my Dad who flew with may of these guys and knew Buz. It came from a term of a flyby, "Biz" they would say lets biz tower or base to shake up the brass.

It was fun having a dad that knew all these guys from the X15 progam in plamdale to the cape in Florida. I remember asking him the same question he said thats his pilots name son. Terry Fadden son of late Mr.CJ Fadden North American,Rockwell's "CJ" Retired Decorated "Mr T2 Trainer". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.73.212.235 (talk) 08:06, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Absence of gravity on the Moon?
This is cut and pasted from the article on Bizz Aldrin - And because of the absence of air and gravity on the moon, both Aldrin's and Neil Armstrong's footprints are still there, untouched. Without human interaction or other disturbances the prints will likely be there for an indefinite period of time. [8]

Really - no gravity on the moon? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.70.160.153 (talk) 20:47, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Sibrel punch
Okay, this page now has no mention of anything about the Sibrel punch. This should definitely be mentioned, if not have discussion about the entire incident. Tithonfury (talk) 02:01, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

What's his present full legal name?
Yes, Buzz Aldrin is how most people know him, but since this is an encyclopedic work, why not follow convention and have the lead paragraph start off with his complete legal name, as in:
 * Buzz Eugene Aldrin, Jr., (born Edwin Eugene Aldrin, Jr., January 20, 1930) is an American aviator and astronaut who was the Lunar Module pilot on Apollo 11 etceteras....

Yes, it looks a little unusual, but we really need to know his full present legal name before anything should be done. Did he only change his first name, or did he also eliminate his middle name at the same time?

Also, for those who didn't catch it, an external link has been added to the interview he did with the New York Times in commemoration of the first moon landing's 40th anniversary (repeated here: New York Times interview, June 2009: Questions for Buzz Aldrin -The Man on the Moon)

--Signed: Harry-dotting-the-I's-&-crossing-the-T's-Zilber, a.k.a.HarryZilber (talk) 04:12, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

deep diving astronaut
"Aldrin is the only NASA astronaut that has participated in a deep-submergence dive.[citation needed]"

I believe this is not accurate. cf the work of Malcom Scott Carpenter in the US Navy Sealab experments. I would like to discuss this before making any changes.

I am making a small correction under Personal Life

" He is employed as a car salesman. " to read "He was employed..." Throckmorton Guildersleeve (talk) 12:58, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Page Lock/protection
I was thinking, we should add a page lock (or some sort of protection) for this page--considering the anniversary. It would be a prime target for vandals and trolls--24.210.221.242 (talk) 21:23, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

This article has been vandalised several times claiming that Aldrin is dead which is clearly not true. Definitely needs locking and reverting to its original state - every time I remove the parts about him being dead they go straight back on.

who keeps sayinghe is dead. this is very unpleasant. what is the matter with some people... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.213.97.22 (talk) 22:07, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Criticism of NASA
I've added details about Aldrin's criticism of NASA's vision and objectives. I included it in its own subsection but if another editor feels it could be worked into an already existing section, feel free to have at it. --K10wnsta (talk) 22:01, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Guest Host of 5/17 "Monday Night RAW?"
Aldrin is expected to be announced as the next Guest Host of RAW on the 5/10 edition (when Flava Flav will host). Should we include this once this announcement is made Monday on "RAW"?98.209.57.0 (talk) 00:05, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 70.161.132.64, 18 May 2010

 * He was on dancing with the stars in 2010 he did very well for his age.

70.161.132.64 (talk) 23:12, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The article already mentions this fact in the section Pop culture and media: "ABC announced that he would be a contestant on the 10th season of Dancing with the Stars and ... [o]n Monday March 22, 2010, Buzz and Ashly scored 14 points out of possible 30 points during competition ...". Please replace the editsemiprotected if there is a change you wish to see made, and include the text you wish to see changed and the text to replace it. Thank you.  Intelligent  sium  23:18, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Science Fiction books
Is there a reason the two books Aldrin wrote in collaboration with John Barnes aren't mentioned? I couldn't remember their titles and came to his wikipedia entry thinking it would list them but they aren't there. The books themselves have entries, I think it would be useful to link to them. Encounter_With_Tiber. The_Return_(2000_novel). Ghworg (talk) 18:54, 11 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Supported. 82.163.24.100 (talk) 21:56, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Criticism of Global Warming
Aldrin has been publicly skeptical of the AGW movement. Should this be included on his page? JettaMann (talk) 14:22, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * If a valid news source can be cited, I find nothing wrong with adding it to the article. There are other mentions of him being critical of NASA among other things. 64.138.206.249 (talk) 03:09, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Adding a new external link?
Hi,

I hope this is not too a silly a question to ask here.

I am host an amateur astronomy podcaster and would like to include an interview I recorded with Buzz Aldrin during his visit to the UK in 2008. The interview is available at this link http://astrotalkuk.org/2008/04/20/episode12journey-to-the-moon/

I would like to add that link to "External Links" section. How can I do that? Perhaps this page's moderator can do it?

Thanks in advance. Gurbir2704 (talk) 13:57, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
 * It seems comprehensive enough for a valid external link. I'll go ahead and add it.  Them  From  Space  20:16, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Threw out UFO sighting story
I reverted the anonymous edit of 24 July 17:20, which claimed that Aldrin confirmed in an interview that the Apollo 11 crew saw UFOs on the flight. As everyone knows, "UFOlogy" is a deeply unscientific and fact-free discipline and should not be dignified in this way, unless verifiable proof is presented. Apart from this general situation, my problem with the edit in question is that the two sources cited are an entry on www.ufoevidence.org and a Scottish tabloid newspaper printing two-inch-big headlines. In other words, the sources are squarely ridiculous. --Geheimdienst 20:44, 24 July 2006 (UTC)


 * It's all the news today for some reason; not just dubious sources. I guess a documentary came out? — Omegatron 21:04, 24 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Attempts to determine the nature of unidentified flying objects can not honestly be said to be unscientific by nature. It is a field of study that has been plagued by hoaxters and pseudo-scientific characters to be sure, but that does not mean UFOs don't exist (they do - it is their nature which can not be honestly said to have been determined), nor that attempts to determine their cause should be dismissed out of hand (an action that would be dogmatic and unscientific itself).  Either way, the interesting piece is that he has chosen to make the claim after so long and also stated that the space agency covered it up.  Regardless of whether or not the claim is true or whether, if true, it was actually aliens isn't the point.  Him making such controversial statements is noteworthy either way. 208.3.253.171 22:01, 24 July 2006 (UTC) Christopher

The documentary is going to be on the science (Discovery) channel over the next 4 days (according to tvguide). I'll be making an effort to watch for this clip (about 15mins into the show apparently).

Buzz definitely said these things - check out the documentary yourself. It's worth noting that the sighting of an unidentified flying object does not mean there were aliens - only that there was an object that was unidentified. The only language entered here referring to aliens has to do with Buzz not reporting the find directly due to a fear that it would be interpreted as aliens and they would be ordered to turn back. There is nothing pseudo-scientific here. Of most worthy note, IMO, is his claim that the space agency covered it up. 208.3.253.171 22:01, 24 July 2006 (UTC) Christopher


 * The crew of Apollo 11 did actually see a UFO. It was later determined that it was one of the LM garage panels floating about 100 miles off. I'm sure this could be worked into either this article or the Apollo 11 article proper.35.11.183.95 01:35, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * In his 13-03-2007 lecture, Aldrin said that it was a panel, but because they didn't know which of the 4 panels it was, it was indeed undentified. He laughs at the "UFO" status of the sighting himself. And about the agency covering it up: the crew didn't mention it to NASA until after the mission because they didn't want to look like fools seeing UFO's, so if anyone was "covering up", it was the Apollo 11 crew. Instead of notifying ground control of what they saw, they just asked where the rocket stage was. Upon hearing it was over 6000 miles away, they concluded it must have been one of the panels. They didn't inform NASA about the sighting until after the mission, after which it was confirmed that indeed most likely it was one of the panels. I don't know how long it took before that got public though.

This does not belong in Buzz Aldrin's encyclopedia article. What is wrong with you people? Please delete this. 76.170.29.216 (talk) 06:45, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Skepticism of anthropogenic global warming
First line says:

In 2009, Aldrin said he did no believe humans were causing current climate change: "I think the climate has been changing for billions of years.

The "no" should be changed to "not":

In 2009, Aldrin said he did not believe humans were causing current climate change: "I think the climate has been changing for billions of years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.194.54.33 (talk) 20:21, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

- Good catch, if you see anymore, just post it here and someone will fix it.--Navy Blue84 02:15, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

LEM pilot
Aldrin is usually cited as the Apollo 11 LEM pilot and yet Armstrong landed the LEM on the moon. Anyone explain? Wessexboy (talk) 14:56, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
 * "Lunar Module Pilot" is the crew title, not the actual job description. The commander actually has the assignment of piloting the lunar module.  I believe that Alan Bean is the only Lunar Module Pilot who actually piloted the lunar module.  If I recall correctly Pete Conrad surreptitiously gave him controls on the far side of the moon, outside of Houston's monitoring and control; I believe this was during the return to the command module. TJRC (talk) 22:02, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Bart Sibrel section
It seems to me that it the Bart Sibrel incident shouldn't be included in the article. This man initiated that situation for the very purpose of generating controversy. Bart Sibrel is a basically a lunatic. I don't like the idea that a lunatic can force their way onto an international hero's article simply by harassing them. In my estimation, that incident, punch or no punch, is completely non-notable in comparison to Buzz's actual life accomplishments. It's kind of a slap in the face to Buzz for us to include it. Jason Quinn (talk) 05:33, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Apollo 11 communion -- secret or not??
In the section about Aldrin's NASA career, it is mentioned that "he gave himself Communion on the surface of the Moon, but he kept it secret" because of previous problems with religion on NASA spacecraft. A link is given to the page about the Apollo 8 Genesis reading so I clicked it. On that page, it says, "on the Apollo 11 mission, Buzz Aldrin received communion on the lunar surface shortly after landing. Although he did not keep his actions secret, he only said a non-religious sentence on the intercom, and read from the scripture off-air." The source quoted on the Apollo 8 Genesis Reading page, http://www.snopes.com/glurge/communion.asp is pretty clear that it was NOT a secret, he just didn't read the scripture on the air. Unless someone can find a better source that tells otherwise, I'm pretty sure the phrase "he kept it secret" is totally incorrect here.

By the way: I'm not going to change this now. I'm leaving that up to others to review, since I know nothing about this topic and just noticed a mismatch between pages. Guypersonson (talk) 19:19, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Article semi-protected for two months
Due to persistent IP vandalism, the article will be protected for the next two months. IP editors with a legitimate edit request may ask for it here. Thanks. Jus da  fax   10:47, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

"Regrettably" isn't NPOV
"[['''Regrettably, Sibrel suffered no permanent injury." - Regrettably? That's not really NPOV, hoping that people suffer injuries I do not know when but he went on Letterman after he punched Sibrel. It was during the section where Dave answers mail from viewers.  One viewer wrote in asking if Dave believed someone has went to the moon.  Dave said he believed so or something.  Then Buzz came out and said no, "We were just trying to beat the damn Ruskies(sp?)" or something like that.

Should Aldrin's appearance on The Simpsons be mentioned twice? Gildir, Jan 17, 2006

I have now been bold and deleted the second reference to The Simpsons. Gildir, Jan 19, 2006


 * This isn't Buzz Aldrin Fan'opedia - an attempt at neutrality when dealing with him punching someone in the face would be nice! 67.40.249.122 05:12, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * And the facts that lead up to it, for instance the slander/libel by Sibrel.    Bubba73 (talk), 17:16, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Are represented - I'm sure you read the passage in question - "In September, 2002, Bart Sibrel's repeated demands (over several years) that Aldrin swear an oath on the Bible that he had walked on the Moon, or admit that it was all a hoax, came to a head. Aldrin had pointedly ignored Sibrel, refusing to swear an oath, and Sibrel was becoming much more aggressive with Aldrin and several other Apollo astronauts. Sibrel often gained access to the astronauts by lying, claiming to represent organizations that he does not, and assuming false identities. When he approached Aldrin in September 2002, he cornered Aldrin and a young female relative, stood in their way as they tried to leave the area and shoving a Bible towards Aldrin several times, called Aldrin a "a coward, a liar, and a thief". Aldrin punched Sibrel in the face, claiming that he felt forced to defend himself and his companion. Sibrel suffered no permanent injury. Although the Beverly Hills police investigated the incident, charges were dismissed. (See here for a video clip of the incident.)" 67.40.249.122 17:54, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Aldrin doesn't have to sweet on the Bible for Sibrel. A person (in the US) only has to do that for a legal court.  Sibrel is at fault here.  And even if Aldin did swear on a stack of Bibles, Sibrel and others like him wouldn't believe it.   Bubba73 (talk), 18:07, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not suggesting that he does, merely reporting what happened. 67.40.249.122 18:09, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Because of the large number of people who believe that the first lunar landing was a hoax, shouldn't the first paragraph of this entry say something like, "...is an American pilot and astronaut who, as believed by many, (or something to that effect) became the second human to set foot on the Moon..." in order to make the entry more neutral?
 * no. Fact is not decided by popular vote.
 * Yes, this should be mentioned. For great justice. 17:02, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Absolutely not. Just because a tiny minority of the population is uneducated doesn't mean we have to mention them. Apollo was real, period. Don't bother arguing. The hoax claims have been debunked repeatedly. Please, give. up. --J. Atkins (talk - contribs) 20:19, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * those debunking attempts are mostly terrible and only the gullible would believe them — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.13.53.93 (talk) 02:12, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Mr Aldrins not swearing on the Bible could have something to do with his Masonic Membership. While Masons swear on the Bible in Court etc. To use the Bible in a 'Stunt' like that may be seen as disrespecting the Deity, as would using any Holy Book. Masons place a high importance on respecting all Faiths.Johnwrd (talk) 02:35, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Edwin Aldrin dedicated and ultimately risked his life many, many times for science, NASA, and the USA. Men such as he can let their accomplishments do the talking. I could see just about any man loosing his temper with a person such as Sibrel especially after being called coward and the rest of the garbage that was spouted.

As for Sibrel, a man who invents lies and feigns falseness simply to gain a position allowing him to put a person on the spot, does the fact that he disseminates lies and feigns indentities to gain position prove that he is dedicated to truth or does his usage of prevarication and its dubious outcomes indicate something far more ?

Should the layperson need proof of the landing simpy view the footage of the astronauts as they move across the surface of the moon. Look closely at both the horizontal and vertical componenents of the image. You will find the horizontal component to be very quick as if the man in focus was feeling the effects of 1/6th gravity. A 180 lb man with a 100 lb suit now only weighs 40 lbs, is used to carrying a 180lb load. feels a bit like like superman, and bolts across the landscape with alacrity. Now look at the vertical componenent and focus on the belt area. Notice how slow the up and down motion is and how wide the belt area traces a parabolic arc. It is as though the person in focus is feeling the effects of a much weaker gravitational force. If this footage was spoofed by simply speeding-up the camera, both vectors would be appear rapid. How does one spoof only one vector? Redstone Engr.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.127.181.211 (talk) 20:34, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Now buzz aldrin is on dancing with the stars!!go buzz —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jalc12 (talk • contribs) 23:57, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

I removed a section of this article that alleged Aldrin was a freemason.
The source used to back this outlandish claim was a conspiracy theory website of extremely questionable veracity. I would like to request that this page be locked from edits contributing to such claims. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.108.77.245 (talk) 01:51, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Year of HS graduation?
I don't have the cited source available to me right now, but did Aldrin graduate high school in 1946 or 1947? Since he was born in January 1930, if he graduated in 1946, he was only 16. Did he skip a grade, or did the school system allow early admission? Hard to tell if this mini-"edit war" is based on vandalism or not. JustinTime55 (talk) 20:57, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Place of Birth?
I'm not sure what the rules are for Place of Birth...although Aldrin may have been born at a hospital in Glen Ridge, it is well-known that he lived, grew up and graduated from high school in the town of Montclair, NJ not Glen Ridge. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.215.33.194 (talk) 19:02, 15 June 2012 (UTC)


 * The hospital now known as Mountainside Hospital straddles Glen Ridge and Montclair. Most of it is in Montclair. The hospital says they are in Montclair, and list the address as; "HackensackUMC Mountainside
 * One Bay Avenue Montclair, NJ 07042", but you can also find the address listed as: 1 Bay Ave, Glen Ridge, NJ. My daughter was born there and the birth certificate says Glen Ridge. DavidRavenMoon (talk) 17:51, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Place of birth (II)
Problem, Grew up in Montclair NJ  Not Glen Ridge  nj  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.92.108.125 (talk) 18:23, 27 August 2013 (UTC)


 * We have two citation footnotes in the text which verify that he was actually born in a hospital bordering the town, and that his birth certificate says Glen Ridge. That does not contradict that he grew up in Montclair, and is what we have to go with. Please stop changing it. JustinTime55 (talk) 20:05, 18 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, people born at Mountainside Hospital have Glen Ridge on their birth certificates, even though the hospital lists itself as being 1 Bay Ave, Montclair, NJ. DavidRavenMoon (talk) 17:56, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Archiving talk
This talk page has 42 43 sections, and goes back almost a decade, and old dead conversations no longer being monitored are getting noncontemporaneous responses. Unless someone objects, I will turn on auto-archiving to clean it up. TJRC (talk) 23:31, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * No objections in almost a week, so I'm turning on archiving. TJRC (talk) 00:29, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 June 2014
Please edit the "Military Career" section of this article. It states that "[Buzz Aldrin] once flew a F117 on an experimental flight at Groom Lake."

Aldrin retired from active duty in 1972 and the F-117 Nighthawk (commonly known as the "Stealth fighter") did not fly until 1981. If there is any evidence for this it should be cited.

Herocydides (talk) 03:25, 19 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Yup - unsourced, and implausible. I've removed it. AndyTheGrump (talk) 03:53, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

I would like to see the Bart Sibrel quote changed
I noticed that this page isn't editable by me, so I figured I'd come to that talk page. I would like to see the Bart Sibrel quote amended to include the full accusation he made at Aldrin. Currently, it reads that Sibrel called him "a liar and a thief", but I think the article would benefit from the full (and more accurate) quote "You're a coward, and a liar, and a thief." I feel that omission of the the accusation of cowardice doesn't accurately describe the gravity of the situation, considering the risks he had taken. Thanks 50.174.135.49 (talk) 04:17, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

What day did Armstrong and Aldrin step onto the Moon?
If you, like me, are one of millions of older Americans living in the Eastern time zone, you probably remember watching this late on July 20, the same day they landed. President Nixon's White House phone log records he spoke to the astronauts just before going to bed, ~11:00 PM.

Watch out, trick question! The WP:WikiProject Spaceflight community has established a consensus (somewhere, it might have been on another talk page) that we should use UTC for off-world events, since no extraterrestrial time zones have yet been established, and of course we wish to avoid regional bias. Since it was after 3 AM London time, it qualifies as July 21 in UTC. Please don't "correct" it to July 20. JustinTime55 (talk) 19:39, 22 July 2014 (UTC)


 * The consensus in question can be found here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spaceflight/Archive_5 JustinTime55 (talk) 21:06, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 July 2014
Under section 4 Personal life… the last comment reads “Aldrin is a Freemason, a member of Montclair Lodge # 144 of New Jersey.” I would like the comment to read as “Aldrin is a 50 year Freemason, a member of Montclair Lodge # 144 of New Jersey and Clear Lake Lodge # 1417 of Texas.”

Reference 40 (page 5) already details this information.

Thank you, Travis M. Major Clear Lake Masonic Lodge No. 1417 travismmajor@gmail.com

76.30.2.8 (talk) 04:59, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. The reference you directed me to stated nothing about being a Freemason for 50 years. — cyberpower ChatOnline 10:22, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Notable appearance?
Voice-acting the epilogue (as "Stargazer") in Mass Effect 3... -- megA (talk) 21:35, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

EDIT: Sorry, it's in a different section than I had expected... -- megA (talk) 21:47, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Birth Place
In the Biography section of the article it mentions that Buzz Aldrin was born in Montclair, NJ. However the right column of summary information states his birth place as Glen Ridge, NJ. I believe this is due to the confusion as to where the hospital in which he was born, Mountainside, exists. I can't answer if the hospital is part of Montclair or Glen Ridge, and therefore can't answer where Buzz Aldrin was born, but the Wikipedia article should at least be consistent.209.137.140.218 (talk) 20:07, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Bringing the following back from archive 1: (looks like another FAQ) JustinTime55 (talk) 20:23, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Place of Birth?
I'm not sure what the rules are for Place of Birth...although Aldrin may have been born at a hospital in Glen Ridge, it is well-known that he lived, grew up and graduated from high school in the town of Montclair, NJ not Glen Ridge. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.215.33.194 (talk) 19:02, 15 June 2012 (UTC)


 * The hospital now known as Mountainside Hospital straddles Glen Ridge and Montclair. Most of it is in Montclair. The hospital says they are in Montclair, and list the address as; "HackensackUMC Mountainside
 * One Bay Avenue Montclair, NJ 07042", but you can also find the address listed as: 1 Bay Ave, Glen Ridge, NJ. My daughter was born there and the birth certificate says Glen Ridge. DavidRavenMoon (talk) 17:51, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Place of birth (II)
Problem, Grew up in Montclair NJ  Not Glen Ridge  nj  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.92.108.125 (talk) 18:23, 27 August 2013 (UTC)


 * We have two citation footnotes in the text which verify that he was actually born in a hospital bordering the town, and that his birth certificate says Glen Ridge. That does not contradict that he grew up in Montclair, and is what we have to go with. Please stop changing it. JustinTime55 (talk) 20:05, 18 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, people born at Mountainside Hospital have Glen Ridge on their birth certificates, even though the hospital lists itself as being 1 Bay Ave, Montclair, NJ. DavidRavenMoon (talk) 17:56, 28 March 2014 (UTC)


 * I just rewrote the paragraph to make the dual location of the hospital and the town where he grew up explicitly clear. I don't know what more we can do. JustinTime55 (talk) 20:35, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I've just added a FAQ to this page, so it will remain even when the discussions roll off to the archives again. TJRC (talk) 03:16, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

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Depression and alcoholism
It would be instructive to hear an opinion -  either from Aldrin or his therapists  -  as to whether these problems stemmed directly from the effects of space-travel, or just from reactions to overnight fame. Valetude (talk) 12:29, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

First Person to Pee on the Moon
I propose removal of this post. It is obviously fictitious, and I will remove it in June 2016. LorenzoB (talk) 05:15, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * It's sourced to National Geographic, which in turn bases the statement on Aldrin's own statement, and another source. Doesn't seem fictitious to me. One can argue that it's not appropriate for a Wikipedia article, but the veracity doesn't seem to be in question. TJRC (talk) 21:52, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Source for "freemason" category?
Usually categories must be reflected by sourced article content. This doesn't seem to be the case, because this article is in Category:American freemasons, but there's no content in the article saying this. Can we get a source and put it in the article? Or am I looking through it too quickly? --BurritoBazooka (talk) 02:29, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

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Talking in article
“…US DoD regulations clearly state however all US military/uniformed service* awards take precedence over civilian awards or those from non-uniformed services... *Note the US military/uniformed services include: the US Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard, NOAA, and PHHS not, for instance, the USPS, FBI, CIA, CAP, NASA, or the Office of the President, etc.”

Earlier I posted the previously statements however I now stand corrected based on other/newer regulations I have since found in the course of more research. Subsequently I have italicized the two key words which make these statement untrue.

For further clarity note the confusion, for some, may lie in the fact US military awards do come before civilian awards MOST times but not ALL the time. For example US military personal decorations (e.g. Medal of Honor, Navy Cross, Purple Heart, etc.) do indeed come first then US military unit awards THEN civilian personal decorations (e.g. Presidential Medal of Freedom, Congressional Space Medal of Honor, NASA Distinguish Service Medal, etc.) then civilian unit citations, then US military awards (e.g. National Defense Medal, Korea Service Medal, Global War on Terrorism Medal, etc.) and then foreign personal decoration, unit citations, international awards, state honors, etc. Doctordrew (talk) 04:00, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

Mother's Name
It is given as "Marion (Moon) Gaddys". To me, that suggests a nick-name of "Moon". Or a birth surname of "Moon" changed by marriage to "Gaddys".

Several sources on the web, eg http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Marion_Gaddys_Moon_(1903-1968)and https://www.geni.com/people/Marion-Aldrin/6000000004906445002 and http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/magazine/21fob-q4-t.html state that her family name is "Moon", with her father being named "Faye Arnold Moon". And none that I found lists a marriage to a "Gaddys", just one marriage to Edwin Eugene Aldrin Sr. RobertMartinAyers (talk) 18:22, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Unverified, but I'd guess Gaddys was her middle name. Since she was the daughter of a chaplain, I don't think it likely she was previously married. I changed the name to conform to MOS recommendation using "nee", and removed "Gaddys" pending verification. JustinTime55 (talk) 19:40, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Neil Armstrong's bio, First Man, calls her "Marion Gaddys Moon Aldrin". TJRC (talk) 23:30, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
 * And Aldrin's Return to Earth uses "Marion Gaddys Moon" as her name prior to marriage. TJRC (talk) 23:35, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 July 2017
'''Delete this. Reason: People feel sad at deaths of friends, family. But that is not a "significant" –like in this article– part of personal life.''' "Aldrin commented on the death of his Apollo 11 colleague, Neil Armstrong, saying that he was "deeply saddened by the passing. I know I am joined by millions of others in mourning the passing of a true American hero and the best pilot I ever knew. I had truly hoped that on July 20th, 2019, Neil, Mike and I would be standing together to commemorate the 50th Anniversary of our Moon landing...Regrettably, this is not to be."[71][72] Fellow Apollo astronaut Edgar Mitchell died on the eve of the 45th anniversary of Mitchell's lunar landing.[73] His death was widely reported, and fellow Apollo astronaut Buzz Aldrin tweeted the following morning, "It's the 45th Anniv of the #Apollo14 landing on the moon & yesterday we lost another Lunar Pioneer Edgar Mitchell."[73] 2405:205:1006:ED2:607A:5308:AA91:8EC7 (talk) 10:36, 11 July 2017 (UTC)"
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: as per WP:CENSOR. regards,  DRAGON BOOSTER   ★  13:43, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

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Category
How come someone removed this article from Category:Apollo 11? This article most definitely belongs there.--Solomonfromfinland (talk) 23:49, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

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Depression and alcoholism
''His autobiographies... both provide accounts of his struggles with clinical depression and alcoholism in the years following his NASA career.''
 * Were these problems caused by the pressures of fame, or by the physical or psychological effects of the space journey itself? We ought to know. Valetude (talk) 23:14, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Buzz
It might be worth mentioning that Aldrin legally changed his name to Buzz. Patrick Moore is a source for this, but I don't have reference details. --Peter Ells (talk) 00:25, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestion, but it is already in the first paragraph of the article.  Kees08  (Talk)   22:50, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

Work list
Anyone can work on any of these points if they wish.


 * Expand intro | We need more from the past few decades especially about Mars. We might need to trim what I wrote as well.---  Coffee  and crumbs  23:13, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Replace IMDB references | ✅ --- Coffee  and crumbs  10:25, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Expand early life section
 * Finish converting to sfn references | ✅ --- Coffee  and crumbs  08:44, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Not sure what to do with the Hacker citation; the links are directly to the pages. I suppose leave out of sfn and keep as a 'normal' citation? | ✅ --- Coffee  and crumbs  23:17, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Write about astronaut selection, move to a different section
 * Apollo 11 section needs major expansion, should be somewhat similar to Armstrong's (a comment from FAC was to include training for Apollo 11, for example)
 * Awards and honors needs prosified
 * Trim external links down
 * ✅  Kees08  (Talk)   05:07, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Finish citing filmography
 * ✅  Kees08  (Talk)   05:04, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Decide if he did two or three spacewalks on Gemini 12. Starting to lean towards three, seems like a lot of sources are counting his standup as an EVA. Incorporate into the article as necessary
 * Verify his ancestry (Armstrong's was wrong)

This list will be expanded as I scrub the article.  Kees08  (Talk)   03:20, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Do you mind if I use harvnb instead of sfn? The output is identical but sfn is not editable in WP:VE. With VE, it would take me almost no time to convert the whole article. --- Coffee  and crumbs  04:39, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I have no preference either way. Fire away!  Kees08  (Talk)   06:17, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
 * As for a secondary source for his alcoholism/depression, I believe both Collins' book and A Man on the Moon talk about it with some degree of detail. I will try to take a look later today on that. Thanks for all the help thus far!  Kees08  (Talk)   18:59, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

No mention of Freemasonry
Why is there no mention of his involvement in Freemasonry? He was raised to the sublime degree of Master Mason and was a longtime member of Montclair Lodge No. 144 in Montclair, New Jersey which is now known as Essex Lodge No. 7 in Caldwell, New Jersey. He eventually demitted from New Jersey and joined a lodge in his new home town in Texas. I think this is very important to mention. YborCityJohn (talk) 08:07, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

Gemini crew rotation
I have a problem with the way something is worded:

This comes off as sounding a bit like original research, that the Gemini 10 backup assignment "lined them up to be the prime crew of Gemini 13". (Does Hansen actually use that wording in First Man?) Deke Slayton's rule of thumb about backup crews being promoted to prime three missions later was just that, a default rule-of-thumb which didn't guarantee any of the astronauts anything; he could and did override it as he saw fit based on various factors such as the astronaut's performances, and falling off the end of the program. I'm sure Slayton was smart enough to know there was no Gemini 13 when he gave them the backup assignment.

How about rewording it to something like this?
 * Jim Lovell and Aldrin were selected as the backup commander and pilot respectively of Gemini 10. Backup crews were frequently promoted to the prime crew on the third following mission, but in this case was a dead end, as that would be Gemini 13 which did not exist; the last mission in the program was Gemini 12.[Hansen] But the February 28, 1966 deaths of the Gemini 9 prime crew, Elliot See and Charles Bassett, in an air crash, led to Lovell's and Aldrin's being moved up one mission on March 21 to backup for Gemini 9,[Hacker and Grimwood] which put them in position as prime crew for Gemini 12.[Chaikin] JustinTime55 (talk) 22:40, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I've adopted your wording. The term "dead-end" is lifted from Chaikin. Hansen quotes Aldrin, who says: "under prevailing custom I would skip two flights and be on the prime crew of Gemini XIIl", a mission he knew would not be flown.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  18:50, 7 November 2018 (UTC)