Talk:C-SPAN/Archive 4

Continuing discussion from FAC
Recently, I nominated this article for FA status, however no consensus was reached at FAC. I will submit it again, after doing some more work. The full original discussion can be found here. I've copied portions of the conversation below so that I can continue the now-archived discussion with several editors:

Awardgive's feedback

 * Sorry about taking so long. I've been overwhelmed by schoolwork, but I now have some time. Review continuing:


 * Programming: Most of this section looks good. I made a small tweak in "Senate and House of Representatives", hope that's okay. My one concern in the entire section comes in third paragraph of the "Public affairs" section, where four sources are used to source one statement. I don't know about other people, but I would consider this citation overkill. Is there a way to fix this.


 * More later, - Awardgive. Help out with Project Fillmore County 21:37, 2 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi Awardgive, as soon I read this comment I knew exactly the sentence you meant, and I agree that four citations in a row is usually not a great sign. This was the compromise result based on feedback I received during the Peer review process. Previously, the section (see for the full section) read as follows:


 * After the deaths of Ronald Reagan in 2004, Rosa Parks in 2005 and Gerald Ford in 2006, C-SPAN featured live, uninterrupted coverage of the visitors who came to the Capitol Rotunda to pay their final respects and the funeral services.[41] The network also broadcast Lady Bird Johnson's funeral in Stonewall, Texas.[42]


 * To prevent this section from growing too list-y, as C-SPAN will undoubtedly cover similar events in the future, and to avoid arbitrary decisions about whom to list or not, I agreed to rewrite it as it appears now.


 * In revising this I kept the two original sources, this Iowa State Daily source and this San Diego Union-Tribune (Nexis link) source. However, when looking closely at these two sources a few months ago I noticed that neither one mentioned Rosa Parks or Gerald Ford. For that reason I added in this Spokesman-Review source that discusses Nixon's funeral proceedings and this Fishbowl DC source about Ford's funeral. My thinking was that to justify the use of "former presidents" (plural) we would need sources that mention C-SPAN covering more than one former president's funeral proceedings and I wasn't easily able to find this in one source. Unfortunately, I was never able to find the source where the information about Rosa Parks originally came from, however you'll see that the section does also mention "other notable individuals", again plural. Do you think this is OK, though we just have the source about Lady Bird?


 * Apologies for the lengthy explanation, though I hope that helps. What do you think should be done? Also, I see you mentioned making an edit to the Senate and House of Representatives section. By all means feel free to make edits here, however I don't see this edit in the revision history, perhaps it didn't get saved? Cheers, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 18:12, 5 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I understand the reasoning for this, and I can see where the problem is. The only solution I can think of is to try and find a source which states that C-SPAN covers the funerals of foreign presidents, or to use Ford, Nixon, Reagan's funerals as a "such as" extension to the sentence. Ex: C-SPAN also covers lying in state in the Capitol Rotunda and funerals of former presidents, such as Gerald Ford, Richard Nixon, and Ronald Reagan, as well as other notable individuals (adding in the respective sources). But I'm pretty much stumped. - Awardgive. Help out with Project Fillmore County 23:37, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Continuing my review:
 * The sentence "Newscasts and other broadcasts in foreign languages are dubbed into English." needs a source.
 * As does the statement about C-SPAN's coverage of "the death and state funeral of Pierre Trudeau, and the 2003 North America blackout.
 * I moved a source in the first paragraph of the "Availability online" section to after a comma.
 * I added a comma to a sentence in the "Organization and operation" section.
 * The third bullet point in the "Audience" section needs a source.
 * Is the statement about Eugene, Oregon, and Alexandria, Virginia getting C-SPAN back (in the "Must-carry" section) backed up by footnote 127?
 * Is there a reason some books in the "Other services" section have sources and others don't?

Aside from these points, the article looks good in terms of referencing/source usage. I might try to look at specific sources, although I don't think it'll do much, since I'm not so good at it. Tell me when you've come up with solutions to these concerns, and I'll make the changes as soon as possible. Thanks, - Awardgive. Help out with Project Fillmore County 23:37, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Reply from WWB Too—Thanks a bunch, Adwardgive. My replies in the same order:


 * First, in response to our discussion about the heavily linked sentence: Here is what I suggest, followed by relevant markup in case you like it:


 * C-SPAN also covers lying in state in the Capitol Rotunda and funerals of former presidents and other notable individuals.

C-SPAN also covers lying in state in the Capitol Rotunda and funerals of former presidents and other notable individuals.


 * I've removed the link to the article on the Media Bistro website, since it is the most blog-like of the three sources that mention presidential funerals, and really two sources is enough to make this point. I then moved the two citations that discuss presidential funerals to the middle of the sentence so it is clearer which part they support and have left the one citation that mentions Lady Bird's funeral at the end of the sentence to support notable individuals. I know you generally prefer to have citations at the end of a sentence, or following punctuation, but do you think this is OK in this situation? If not, I think all three links could be left at the end of the sentence without looking like link overkill.


 * I've looked into the sentence "Newscasts and other broadcasts in foreign languages are dubbed into English." and cannot readily find a source that states this. I also find this sentence's placement in the paragraph a little curious, since the information before and after this sentence is about events that would be in English to begin with. I assume that this was added some time ago by an editor who is familiar with C-SPAN and probably made more sense in its current placement at the time. I'm guessing that we're not debating its accuracy, just its verifiability, as it is unlikely that C-SPAN would air programs in foreign languages, but still I understand the need to avoid making conclusions, however logical, in this article. Without a clear source perhaps it would make most sense to just remove the sentence. Would that be an OK solution?


 * As for a source for the statement about broadcasting Trudeau's funeral, the best source I have been able to locate is the video of the broadcast in the C-SPAN Video Library, here.


 * I've also looked around for a source about the 2003 blackout. Again, I found a clip in the C-SPAN Video Library from the day of this event, but no independent coverage. You can see that video here. I've also found several videos of C-SPAN's coverage of events in the fall of 2003 discussing the blackout, for example this video.


 * Seeing as these are all primary sources, the argument could be made that these events are not notable enough for inclusion in this article. Also, the only C-SPAN coverage from the day of the blackout that I have been able to find is the 6 minute clip I shared above, which doesn't necessarily indicate that their coverage of the event was significant. What do you think should be done here? If you'd like to remove these facts, I'm OK with that. If you feel that they can be kept with the C-SPAN Video Library clips as supporting sources, let me know and I can prep citations for you.


 * The source that supports the third bullet point in the Audience section is this C-SPAN page. It is currently reference 115 and is at the end of the first paragraph of the Public and media opinion section. The ref tag for this source is:.


 * Yes, reference 127 supports the statement about Eugene and Alexandria. The article begins as follows:


 * Cable systems in 95 cities across the country serving more than four million households have dropped or cut back on broadcasts of C-SPAN and C-SPAN2 since last June, when new cable regulations requiring air time for local stations went into effect.
 * However, in a few of these communities, including Eugene, Ore., Anaheim, Calif., and Alexandria, Va., full C-SPAN broadcasts are now being restored because of public outcry and better technology that opens enough cable channels for both mandatory stations and the two Congressional networks.


 * I think I've figured out part of what is happening here with the missing references. Reference number 137, which is behind Nexis paywall, says:


 * There are also the four books produced from "Booknotes" transcripts.


 * It seems safe to assume, in combination with reference 138, which directs to the Booknotes.org homepage, which lists all four Booknotes books, was intended to support the Booknotes: Life Stories, Booknotes: On American Character and Booknotes: Stories from American History books. Would you prefer removing references 137 and 138, and using regular book citations for the unsupported books? If so, I've gone ahead and prepped the citations for you. Because the Google Books links in markup was making this box go super-wide, I've placed these in collapsed boxes (which are, happily, nestable):

Otherwise all of your other changes look great to me. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 17:51, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
 * One more minor thing about a source. When looking around at some of the sources in this article to try and verify the information about translated foreign broadcasts I noticed that the link in the citation for the T. R. Reid The Washington Post source (currently source 123, located in the Public and media opinion section) now just redirects to The Washington Post homepage, not the specific article. I was able to find this same article in Google News. Would you mind updating this URL?
 * Making the discussion even longer:
 * I made the change to the "lying-in-state" sentence. I think it will work fine in this case.
 * I removed the part about foreign broadcasts. If you ever happen upon a source which backs the statement up, I can easily just add it back in.
 * I think it will be fine to cite the videos themselves. They are proof of C-SPAN broadcasting major Canadian events, and both are notable events, so I belief they could stay.
 * Added the ref to the "Audience" section.
 * I added/replaced the sources for three of the books, but I think that the news article is fine in sourcing Booknotes: Life Stories, so I left that one alone.
 * Updated the url.

I'll be happy to add the appropriate sources once you have them ready. After that, I think sourcing looks good. I might be going through the sources soon, but they seem fine to me. Happy to be able to help, - Awardgive. Help out with Project Fillmore County 05:15, 18 October 2013 (UTC)


 * And here I am making this discussion even longer.


 * Thanks for the recent edits. They all look good. I agree with everything you've done. I've put together the citations for the three videos for you:


 * I believe that these are the only three sources you need from me. Sound right to you? Thank you again for everything. You've been a huge help. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 21:08, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
 * And now, to make a long story short: I added the three video refs, and overall, the sourcing of the article looks great. All sources look reliable, although I can't do spotchecks to check their usefulness. Can't wait for this to be back at FAC (pretty soon). Great job, - Awardgive. Help out with Project Fillmore County 03:33, 30 October 2013 (UTC)


 * All outstanding concerns raised during the FAC review were resolved with Awardgive's help. The above discussion with is ✅. WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 17:44, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Ruhrfisch's feedback
Below is the reply I had intended to post at FAC before it was archived:

Hi again Ruhrfisch. A few comments:
 * I agree with you that "government officials" in the Scope and limitations of coverage section is supported by the following specific examples. Thanks for keeping that phrase.
 * Using the Main article template in the Other services section makes sense to me since that paragraph discusses both the Bus program and the LCV program. Thanks as well for updating the information about the LCVs.

Since you've provided feedback on the final section of the article am I correct in assuming that you've finished your detailed review of the page? Did you have any final thoughts on the introduction?

Also, I know that I still owe you more details about John D. Evans for the Development section and I'm still working on this. I'm trying to get my hands on a book about C-SPAN that I think will better explain who Evans is and what he did. I also am trying to get more specifics on the "other cable-televisions executives" mentioned in the section. Unless you have more feedback, I believe that this is the final loose end I need to tie up for you. Does that sound right to you? Cheers, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 22:18, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Posted by WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 22:18, 10 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Sorry the FAC was closed. As I noted there, I still need to reread the whole article and comment on the Lead. My recollection was that the lead could use some copyediting (and I need to check the talk page archive to see if the suggestions I made about the lead were implemented). Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 19:25, 12 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Ruhrfisch, I forgot to copy this over last week when I moved over the other unresolved parts of the FAC discussion, but here is our original exchange about Evans from the FAC page:


 * Development - I would briefly identify who John D. Evans is in Lamb shared his idea with John D. Evans in 1977... (Telecom executive?)


 * You know, this is not material that I added, so I'd like to take a closer look at it. I feel like "who with a number of others helped to co-found the network" is somewhat vague. I'll follow up on this one soon. WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 19:55, 30 September 2013 (UTC)


 * And here is my reply:


 * I had been trying to track down more information about the other founders of C-SPAN, with the help of C-SPAN's communications director, but for now all we've been able to find are internal documents about other founders, which won't work for Wikipedia.


 * Anyhow, after looking at this all more closely it seems that the last two sentences of the first paragraph in Development both discuss who Lamb approached for help, but they're both a little long and unclear, I think these two sentences could be replaced with:



As it should appear:


 * Lamb shared his idea with several cable executives, who helped him launch the network. Among them were Bob Rosencrans who provided $25,000 of initial funding in 1979 and John D. Evans who provided the wiring and access to the headend needed for the distribution of the C-SPAN signal.

As markup:


 * Lamb shared his idea with several cable executives, who helped him launch the network. Among them were Bob Rosencrans who provided $25,000 of initial funding in 1979 and John D. Evans who provided the wiring and access to the headend needed for the distribution of the C-SPAN signal.


 * This revision keeps the two sources about Rosencrans, and one of the existing sources about Evans. I have dropped the source because it isn't very clear what this source is, and the likelihood of someone being able to locate it is very small. Instead, I've added a reference to the book The C-SPAN Revolution which provides more specifics about Evans' involvement. The book is also available on Google Books, and you can see the part about Evans here.


 * This revision would both explain who Evans is, a cable executive, and would more succinctly summarize who Lamb approached for help and what they contributed. How does this look to you?


 * Again, sorry about the delay here. And do let me know your final thoughts on the introduction when you've had the chance to complete your final review. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 18:22, 17 October 2013 (UTC)


 * This proposed revision was reviewed by User:Liz and is now ✅. WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 14:56, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

One more minor update
I just noticed that the article lists C-SPAN's XM channel as 119, but it was recently changed to 120. I found this SiriusXM page that mentions the switch, however the C-SPAN website has already been updated to show the new correct channel. This "How to listen to C-SPAN Radio" page is currently in use as a source elsewhere in the Wikipedia article. The following ref tag will link to the reference:

The old channel is currently mentioned in the Development section and the infobox. Would someone be able to quickly update these two sections using the above ref tag? Cheers, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 16:21, 27 October 2013 (UTC)


 * For anyone reading this thread, the minor update to correct the XM channel listed in the article is now ✅. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 20:30, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

At least one major cable company does not provide any of the C Span channels to lower tier subscribers
For over 2 years Time Warner has denied all of the channels to lower tier subscribers in Buffalo, NY. I wonder if any other cable companies have done this. What about Comcast, the company that is slated to absorb Time Warner? 1archie99 (talk) 11:57, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

There should be listing of Cspan employee salaries
Since these folks are 'government' employees, we should be able to see the salaries for those working at CSpan (and all government agencies). Is there a website for this? 223.205.250.110 (talk) 03:09, 2 January 2017 (UTC)


 * C-SPAN is a private, nonprofit corporation that receives no government funds. Their employees aren't government workers. Even if they were, most government workers' salaries are not made public.
 * As a 501(c)3 nonprofit, C-SPAN is required to file IRS documents listing the salaries of their highest paid executives. You can see some of their recent filings on this ProPublica site: . D Monack (talk) 21:25, 4 January 2017 (UTC

Russian interference
There should be mention of Russian interference with C-SPAN coverage. Pawyilee (talk) 03:20, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 13 external links on C-SPAN. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081001185036/http://www.c-span.org/pdf/npelosi.pdf to http://www.c-span.org/pdf/npelosi.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100808142229/http://mashable.com/2008/09/26/don%E2%80%99t-like-twitter%E2%80%99s-election-site-c-span-has-a-way-cooler-alternative-really/ to http://mashable.com/2008/09/26/don%E2%80%99t-like-twitter%E2%80%99s-election-site-c-span-has-a-way-cooler-alternative-really/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130925045216/http://www.c-span.org/About/The-Company/Viewer-FAQ/ to http://www.c-span.org/About/The-Company/Viewer-FAQ/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111017005049/http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2009/02/run_up_to_lincolns_thursday_20.html to http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2009/02/run_up_to_lincolns_thursday_20.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130623022421/http://www.c-span.org/C-SPAN-Radio/How-to-Listen-to-C-SPAN-Radio/ to http://www.c-span.org/C-SPAN-Radio/How-to-Listen-to-C-SPAN-Radio/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110711072211/http://gns.gannettonline.com/article/20100325/COLUMNISTS01/3250301 to http://gns.gannettonline.com/article/20100325/COLUMNISTS01/3250301
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130701064812/http://www.c-spanarchives.org/videoLibrary/blog/?p=1975 to http://www.c-spanarchives.org/videoLibrary/blog/?p=1975
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110810070530/http://nms.com/pressroom/entry/c-span-engages-new-media-strategies-for-innovative-online-convention-covera/ to http://nms.com/pressroom/entry/c-span-engages-new-media-strategies-for-innovative-online-convention-covera/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101221043614/http://www.c-span.org/About/Solving-Video-Problems/ to http://www.c-span.org/About/Solving-Video-Problems/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130124201338/http://www.c-span.org/About/The-Company/Company-and-Mission/ to http://www.c-span.org/About/The-Company/Company-and-Mission/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101128122005/http://www.c-span.org/PDF/C-SPANHouseAccessibilityPollPressRelease.pdf to http://www.c-span.org/PDF/C-SPANHouseAccessibilityPollPressRelease.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110720131511/http://qanda.org/Transcript/?ProgramID=1054 to http://qanda.org/Transcript/?ProgramID=1054
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130610000414/http://www.c-span.org/pdf/BusLCV_060810.pdf to http://www.c-span.org/pdf/BusLCV_060810.pdf

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External links modified
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I have just modified one external link on C-SPAN. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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C-SPAN 2, 3
In contrast to ESPN2, the logo of which is often typeset as ESPN 2, C-SPAN 2’s logo is typeset as C-SPAN2 while the channel itself refers to that feed as C-SPAN 2 (i.e. with a space).

Of course, secondary sources are what matter here, and that usage is mixed as well. —Wiki Wikardo 14:31, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Subscriber affiliate fee
On the page "C-SPAN is a private, nonprofit organization, funded by a 6¢ per subscriber affiliate fee paid by its cable and satellite affiliates, and does not have advertisements on any of its networks, radio stations, or websites, nor does it ever solicit donations or pledges" Is the six cents per subscriber have any references that we could use? That way we could learn Is that per year or month? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.48.113.58 (talk) 18:20, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

What is CSpan's agenda?
It would be nice to see something added about how CSpan and its Washington Journal pic their guests. Most of their guests are repeat guests appearing multiple times throughout the year. By choosing the same organizations over and over again, they seem to be pushing certain ideas. There are literally hundreds or thousands of organizations and of course millions of potential guests for their shows yet the same faces come on again and again, not really representing the true American picture. For example, you have the Heritage Society coming in on different topics throughout the year. It comes on under other slightly different organization names but it is the same main organaization, The Heritage Society. Cato institute is another common guest. And then there are individuals who come on again and again like Sebastian Gorka, Arnie Arneson, etc. Why is there such a limited collection of guests? This points to an agenda. Please explain what is driving this narrow selection of voices from a country of 350 million people.113.53.156.143 (talk) 00:17, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

"Political TV" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Political TV. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 November 11 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Hog Farm Bacon 20:31, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Poor phrasing?
We say Washington Journal premiered on January 4, 1995 and has been broadcast every morning since then, ..., which I find surprising (Thanksgiving, Christmas Day?) and contradictory with the subsequent statement that the weekend is dedicated to 48 hours of stuff based on books. Can someone please check/resolve? - Sitush (talk) 15:28, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

"no advertisements" is technically wrong.
the article says: "it [C-SPAN] does not have advertisements on any of its networks, radio stations, or websites, nor does it solicit donations or pledges."

But when I go on the website https://www.c-span.org/, and I watch an archived livestream, it plays an ad! Albeit, it's normally an ad about C-SPAN, or something about covid vaccinations, and I haven't seen any ads for products yet, but the video literally says "loading ad" and "This ad will end in 5..4..", etc. Maybe it meant to say no ads for products, but the way it's worded is definitely incorrect right now.--IAmADroid (talk) 10:50, 22 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Yep, they say themselves they have ads on their digital platforms, it should be changed https://www.c-span.org/about/faq/ Bb49 (talk) 06:25, 24 October 2022 (UTC)