Talk:CAC Wirraway

Origin
This aircraft was in fact based on the North American NA-16. It was even designated by the CAC as the CA-16. Some quick links:  

Yes, it's true that the Wirraway is a license-built NA-16. However CA-16 is just one of the 7 CAC contract numbers under which the Wirraway was produced. The contract numbers are listed correctly on the main page. Derek B 18:59, 23 March 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Derekbu (talk • contribs)


 * The actual North American designation was NA-32 for the first aircraft imported with 'NA-16-1A' being the designation used by Commonwealth Aircraft. The second aircraft imported was designated NA-33 by NA and NA-16-2K by CAC. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.55.68 (talk) 16:12, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

"eBay Wirraway Case"
I have removed this section again after an IP editor reinstated in. My reason for doing so is that it appears to be a very minor incident which isn't related to the aircraft per-se. The section's only references are primary sources (the court transcript), and as such do not establish notability - third party sources are needed for this (see: Reliable sources). As the section concerns living people, WP:BLP also applies, and this demands high standards for including material on individuals and high standards for sourcing this material - again, primary sources aren't acceptable here. In short, unless it can be proven that this was a significant incident (eg, by providing evidance of extensive press coverage, books or magazine articles about the incident and using this to cite the section) this material has no place on Wikipedia, and I don't see why it belongs in an article on the aircraft anyway. --Nick Dowling (talk) 03:21, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * If notability can be asserted by third party sources, especially if the case has had repercussions concerning how eBay handles bids and their relation to contract law, then I think this would be worthy of a separate article, or perhps inclusion in an article on notable eBay court cases, if such an article exists. A link in the "See also" section would be sufficient here at that point. It's definitley an interesting case, one that I had not heard of before, but it does need to follow WP notability policy and guidelines to be covered anywhere on Wikipedia. Perhaps even a single link to good newspaper article in the EL section would be suficient if the other options don't pan out, but I don't think such a lengthy section belongs here, esp one not based on third party sources. - BillCJ (talk) 03:54, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * If the case is notable (which does not appear to be the case as it is not that uncommon on ebay!) it would be either in an ebay article or an article in its own right as the problem was to do with the way ebay works and contracts of sale. Nothing to do with the aircraft it is only the subject of the sale and should not appear here other than as BillCJ suggested as a see also. MilborneOne (talk) 20:25, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed that the eBay material does not really contribute anything to a reader's understanding of this particular aircraft type; the fact that the item in question was a Wirraway (as opposed to some other aircraft, or a boat, a car, or a house) is pretty much irrelevant to the shenanigans that transpired. In its original form, the section relied on News media reports (secondary sources), rather than court reports (primary sources), which made it more acceptable policy-wise; but just because it's in the news doesn't make it encyclopedic. I agree with BillCJ - if this material has a place, it's not here. --Rlandmann (talk) 02:38, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

A quick seach in Google will provide you with many link to press articles about this aircrafft. Channel 10 also flew out to Parafield Airport to meet the aircraft after its delivery from Albury. I have a copy of the DVD used in the news article, showing over 30 minutes of edited and raw footage. All up Channel 10 spent about 3 hours of their time on this plane.

I think this is an important part of the plane's history. The history doesnt have to be all about its wartime activities, this is just another chapter from the planes history of Service. From wartime to restoration to being restored to flying status (it wasnt when Mr Thomas owned it). 203.13.128.102 (talk) 02:54, 5 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The consensus is against re-adding the e-bay info back to the article, and has not changed since you posted here. Please leave it out until a solution can be agreed on. Thanks. - BillCJ (talk) 09:22, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Wirraway accidents
I saw someone suggested the Wirraway accidents page should be merged into the main Wirraway article. This is too much detail for a Wikipedia article, according to the style guide, so it should not be merged. It appears that the point of the Wirraway accidents page is to say that the safety record of the Wirraway was poor. This could also be debated since the Wirraway served as a training aircraft where accidents would be expected, but the making this point could also be achieved with a comment in the main article and a link to the specialist content page on the ADF-Serials website which is summarised in the Wirraway accidents page. Other aircraft articles on Wikipedia do not have long lists of individual aircraft crashes under their "Accidents and Incidents" heading, but only a brief summary of high-profile or important accidents or incidents. Derek B 15:20, 8 October 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Derekbu (talk • contribs)


 * not merge - The list of accidents is very likely a candidate for deletion, and it would not improve the main article IMHOPetebutt (talk) 06:23, 9 October 2011 (UTC)


 * not merge - My thoughts are that the list of accidents page should remain active as a separate listing page, since the number of incidents is well recorded and significant. Also on the accidents page, incidents outside of WW2 should also be included. This would be then a similar listing such as for List of accidents and incidents involving the Vickers VC.1 Viking - Boylo (talk) 18:03, 31 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Oppose - the suggested merge page is, in fact, a candidate for deletion. - The Bushranger One ping only 23:00, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

UK Allocation
Anybody known why 245 CA-1s were reserved the British serials between HP532 and HP843 ? MilborneOne (talk) 22:24, 5 November 2011 (UTC)


 * In 1940 Australian Wirraway airframe production exceeded that of Australian production of the Wasp engine and so as not to waste the completed-but-engineless airframes Britain agreed to take 245 of the airframes surplus to RAAF orders on the understanding that they would be fitted with engines from US orders on arrival in the UK, (the Wirraway being similar to the RAF Harvard I), with a further order for 500 in October 1940, with 300 for delivery by 1943. These were later cancelled with the introduction of Lend-Lease, with Britain instead paying for a number of Wirrways for use by the Empire Air Training Scheme. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.55.68 (talk) 16:07, 4 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the reply. makes sense. MilborneOne (talk) 16:34, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Airworthyness
A new 'crash' section. I've noticed in Wikip that it is not customary to list crashes for warbirds. Crashes are listed for ex-military types, when they see widespread commercial use. Wirraways saw commercial use only as crop dusters (Ceres) so a list of crashes is not a requirement. There were a lot of Cere crashs, but no more than for other types of dusters as it's a high-risk activity. The beach crash at Maroochydore (Maroochy air crash) in 1950 gained a lot of bad publicity for the machine. An experienced pilot flying slowly simply lost control and crashed into a group of children.220.244.73.10 (talk) 00:24, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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RAN Wirraways
An earlier edit of the Wirraway entry stated that the RAN deployed Wirraways in combat roles during WWII. But the RAN did not receive its first Wirraway until November 1948, so they could not have deployed them in WWII, and I have removed this from the entry.

An earlier edit of the entry also stated that "Seventeen Wirraways were modified post-war and delivered to the Royal Australian Navy (RAN), the modifications were incorporated under the CAC designation CA-20" which is incorrect on three counts:


 * 1) 24 Wirraways were delivered to the navy, not 17 (see list and references below)
 * 2) They were not modified, they were delivered directly from RAAF storage depots, and
 * 3) The CA-20 contract was not for these modifications, but was for more dive-bomber versions, but the contract was cancelled.

24 Wirraways were issued to the RAN⁠ between November 1948 and November 1953, and an additional 6 airframes were transferred for spare parts." The number is incorrect

From the RAAF Service Cards (NAA: A10297,Block 107; NAA: A10297, Block 488B and NAA: 10297 Block 108), the following transfers can be found:

24/11/1948 A20-145 ex 7AD Toc, where it had been stored under cover.

25/2/1949 A20-479 to RAN ex 2AD Richmond where it had been in storage following an overhaul at Clyde Engineering four years earlier.

20/4/1949 A20-176 to RAN ex 1AD Tocumwal

10/5/1949	 A20-139 to Navy ex 7AD Tocumwal, where it was stored under cover.

22/8/1949	A20-141 to Navy ex 1AD Tocumwal. 18/6/1953 A20-141 crashed at Nowra

A200-752 25/8/1952 released to RAN.

A20-752 19/9/1952

A20-28 30/9/1952 to Nowra ex 2AD. Later sold to Lund Aviation 1/1/57

A20-168 30/9/1952 to Nowra ex 2AD Richmond after major service at 2AD

1/10/1952		A20-133 to Nowra ex 2AD after major service at 2AD.

1/10/1952		A20-238 to Nowa ex 2AD.

1/10/1952		A20-469 to Nowra ex 2AD.

A20-412 22/7/53 to RAN ex 1AD Tocumwal. Unsuitable for RAN, returned to RAAF 11/1/54. Sold to Willsmore 15/7/54.

A20-567 22/7/53 to RAN ex 1AD Tocumwal. Unsuitable for RAN, returned to RAAF 11/1/54. Sold to Willsmore 15/7/54.

A20-579 to RAN ex 1AD Tocumwal (TT aircraft). Unsuitable for RAN, sold to Willsmore 15/7/54.

A20-18 12/10/53 to RAN from Tocumwal. Unsuitable for RAN, returned to RAAF ownership 11/1/54. Sold to Willsmore Aviation Services 15/7/54.

A20-73 12/10/53 to RAN from Tocumwal. Unsuitable for RAN, returned to RAAF ownership 27/11/53. Sold to Willsmore 15/7/54.

A20-190 12/10/53 to RAN from 1AD Uranquinty. Unsuitable for RAN, returned to RAAF ownership 27/11/53. Sold to Willsmore 15/7/54.

A20-209 30/11/53 to Navy ex 1AD Tocumwal, replacing unsuitable aircraft. Sold to Lund Aviation.

A20-211 30/11/53 to Navy ex 1AD Tocumwal, replacing unsuitable aircraft. Sold to Lund Aviation.

A20-214 30/11/53 to Navy ex 1AD Tocumwal, replacing unsuitable aircraft. Sold to Lund Aviation.

A20-225 30/11/53 to Navy ex 1AD Tocumwal, replacing unsuitable aircraft. Sold to Lund Aviation.

A20-250 30/11/53 to RAN ex 1AD Tocumwal. Sold to Lund Aviation.

A20-490 30/11/53 to RAN ex 1AD Tocumwal, replacing unsuitable aircraft Derekbu (talk) 00:31, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Do you have sources for that information? If so, it would be helpful to cite them in the article. -  ZLEA  T \ C 02:22, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, the source is the aircraft history cards, available from the National Archives of Australia, as explained above. I've just added a citation referring to the specific files. Derekbu (talk) 08:06, 16 April 2023 (UTC)