Talk:CHOBA B CCCP/Archive 2

Requested move
Снова в СССР → Snova v SSSR — Titles should at least be in the Latin alphabet. Maybe even Back in the USSR (1988 album), but as a first step, let's eliminate the Cyrillic —Biruitorul (talk) 23:14, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Survey
no move. This is a distinct problem, but the policies in question do not govern and were not designed to govern things known in English with a European non-Latin alphabet. Such a matter is not covered, and there is no consensus here to interpret these policies innovatively in this manner. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk ) 02:03, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.


 * What about Choba B CCCP or Snova v CCCP or Back in the USSR (album) ? 70.51.10.113 (talk) 03:34, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The last may be best. The Moscow Album is tempting, but probably not desirable; I see The White Album is a redirect, as nicknames should be. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:36, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I would favor Back in the USSR (album) as a first choice, and Choba B CCCP is preferable over the others. Snova doesn't appear to be widely used at all, garnering only a few hundred hits in google 1, many of which likely aren't English-language sources, which therefore cannot be used to judge English-language usage. Parsecboy (talk) 22:57, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose - Leave it where it is; that's the title McCartney gave it, in Cyrillic characters, even when it was released outside the USSR. Snova v SSSR is an accurate transliteration; "Choba b CCCP", or any other attempt to substitute similar-looking Latin characters, is silly and wrong (as are mish-mashes such as "Snova v CCCP"). Pro hib it O ni o ns  (T) 19:26, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * True, but see WP:UE - "Names not originally in a Latin alphabet, as with Greek, Chinese or Russian, must be transliterated into characters generally intelligible to literate speakers of English". Biruitorul Talk 22:49, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * True enough, although Macca obviously intended it as a sort of decorative title upon worldwide release (hence the spelling mistake, it seems there was no-one to proofread it), and thus a common-sense exception. Otherwise, the transliteration is Snova v SSSR. If Back in the USSR (album) looks better, fine. (I dislike "The Russian album", though - it sounds a little bit too much like dumbing down, in the manner that Celine Dion's album D'eux was entitled The French Album for the U.S. market.) I'll change my vote to Not bothered.  Pro hib it O ni o ns  (T) 06:26, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Strong oppose - translations should be redirects only. Current article name is the actual title of the album as indicated by both the cover and Capitol Records. B.Wind (talk) 01:31, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Not policy nor practice. We use War and Peace, thank you, not Война и мир. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 02:37, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Not a very compelling analogy. In any bookstore in the English-speaking world, you'll find War and Peace, a Russian-language book by a Russian author translated into English. Go to the CD department and you'll find Снова в СССР, an English-language album by an English-speaking British musician. Look a little further and you'll find Концерт, an English-language album by an English-speaking American musician. Again, I'm not sure the policy fully addresses the issue of foreign-alphabet titles chosen for effect, rather than original-language titles that are usually translated; that might be a better place to discuss this issue. Interestingly, all the other Latin-alphabet Wikipedias use "Снова в СССР." Pro hib it O ni o ns  (T) 07:18, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Spelling (and so forth) for effect comes under WP:MOSTRADE; we're against following, because this could be reissued as Back in the USSR next week; but my opinion on the naming question remains unchanged from above: I merely comment that that actual title is not what we do (and there certainly is no rule against translating titles. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:46, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:


 * Comment It definitely would not be SSSR. CCCP is the former USSR. 199.125.109.52 (talk) 05:20, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Not in a transliteration. Pro hib it O ni o ns  (T) 06:28, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

ProhibitOnions is right: either leave the Cyrillic or transliterate, but don't use an arbitrary Anglicization. What does the publisher call it in their catalogues? —Michael Z. 2008-05-23 06:43 z 

Since the discussion overlaps greatly with the one here
can I make reference to what I just posted over there:


 * May I add something: While prohibitions against OR prevent us from divining the intent of the producers on our own, if we knew for sure that the Cyrillic was for decoration, I would say that Kontsert would be a sensible choice. The fact that the Cyrillic is decoration would mean that the actual name (pronounced "Kontsert") would in principle have nothing to do with how it is written down.


 * WRT the discussion of "Nazi" rather than its German name, I think the argument could be attacked on the grounds that "Nazi" is not intended to replace the proper noun for the said party. It is a "corruption" in the sense that it is a contraction or an abbreviation because the word is used in different contexts to the full "Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei".

ProhibitOnions states that this is the title in the form McCartney issued it; even in that case McCartney would have been aware (!) that it is written in Cyrillic rather than Latin characters. But it was for a Cyrillic writing audience! With that in mind I do not see why it should be treated any differently from any other work done originally in Cyrillic (as was pointed out with War and Peace vs Война и мир (Vojna i mir).

To extend B.Wind's argument, if the Cyrillic Снова в СССР is indeed the actual title of the record, Пол Маккартни (Pol Makkartni) rather than Paul McCartney is the correct musician. But we say that the album stars Paul rather than Pol. ... So IMO the article belongs at the transliteration Snova v SSSR or some suitable translation (I would choose the former if forced to). 118.90.89.74 (talk) 04:16, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Un-italicize title?
Now that album titles are italicized by default, the title of this page may be less recognizable to English-speakers than the Cyrillic title "Снова в СССР". In particular, the в character looks different when italicized as в. May I suggest that we use "italic title=no" in the infobox to give English-speaking users a better chance to recognize the title in Russian when they see it? --Metropolitan90 (talk) 16:43, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * If you look at the Russian-language Wikipedia article, it does not use italics. Neither does the album cover. I think the title of this article should be changed.Vesahjr (talk) 19:05, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Titles of books are not usually italicized on the cover of the book, but are usually italicized when the book is referred to elsewhere. AnonMoos (talk) 02:09, 18 August 2012 (UTC)