Talk:COVID-19 pandemic in Europe/Archive 2

Turkey is not part of Europe
--83.38.50.205 (talk) 12:28, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

I disagree. JamesHSmith6789 (talk) 12:30, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

A definition somewhere in the article of what countries it includes in Europe and why would be helpful, and all the more so given that the countries listed here are contrary to those listed in Wikipedia's article on Europe. 68.96.208.77 (talk) 19:19, 14 April 2020 (UTC) Constructive Feedback

Semi-protected edit request on 14 April 2020
Please change the summary table to have Ireland appear after Iceland when the table is in alphabetical order instead of appearing after Portugal. 68.96.208.77 (talk) 00:38, 14 April 2020 (UTC) Constructive Feedback
 * Pending-protection-unlocked.svg Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. — MRD2014 (talk) 16:06, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Maps incorrectly show Crimea separated from Ukraine
Crimean peninsula is incorrectly shown separately from Ukraine in the maps. In some cases the border between the Crimean peninsula and Ukraine is wrongfully drawn, in others - Crimea is presented in different colour with Ukrainian mainland.

It is absolutely incorrect as Crimean peninsula that includes regions Autonomous Republic of Crimea and city of Sevastopol, is sovereign part of Ukraine. The Crimean peninsula is illegally occupied by Russia since 2014. None of the international organisations, including UN, OSCE, CoE, has never recognised illegal annexation of Crimea by Russia and continue to condemn this aggressive act by Russia. Majority of states in the world further recognize sovereignty of Ukraine over Crimea and condemn Russian aggressive deed. There is no single act of international law recognising annexation of Crimea by Russia. Maps have to be corrected. Euroserhi (talk) 06:41, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 April 2020
Please change the summary table to include columns showing population and cases per million people 68.96.208.77 (talk) 22:25, 11 April 2020 (UTC) Constructive Feedback
 * Pending-protection-unlocked.svg Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. — MRD2014 (talk) 16:06, 15 April 2020 (UTC)


 * I am unable to edit the page correctly myself, so as recommended, I am reopening the request. I see that the table currently takes its data from BNO News.  Where would I find instructions on including additional data? 68.96.208.77 (talk) 20:52, 15 April 2020 (UTC) Constructive Feedback
 * What do you mean "you're unable to edit the page correctly yourself"? Would you mind elaborating? ToThAc (talk) 15:54, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

I meant that as I'm someone inexperienced with Wikipedia, I was unable to edit the article to make the edit correctly, which is why I asked for some guidance. I think I ought not to have, so I'm sorry for the bother. I'll leave it to the experienced users! 68.96.208.77 (talk) 02:15, 22 April 2020 (UTC) Constructive Feedback

Europe or the EU?
It isn't really clear what this article is about... What definition of Europe are we using? Russia is included in the list of countries but it doesn't even fit in the map. The article seems to be a bit of mix on this issue.

We should keep in mind that we also have: European_Union_response_to_the_2019–20_coronavirus_pandemic. -- Gtoffoletto (talk) 12:46, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

"Corona in Europe" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Corona in Europe. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. -- Tavix ( talk ) 13:32, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

EU, EEA & UK totals
This is a follow up of. In the statistics section, we could add a row (or more) to the bottom of the table with partial totals for various European groups of countries. For example, EU/EEA & UK and/or EU. The ECDC is probably a good source for the aggregate figures:. --MarioGom (talk) 19:03, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * +1 -- &#123;{u&#124; Gtoffoletto  &#125;}  talk 20:42, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * That would be EXCELLENT! I second that suggestion! Skeptical Realist (talk) 03:10, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

HUGE ERROR!!! Summary Table's Totals are way off. Please correct!
RE: "Summary table of confirmed cases in Europe

Current as of April 30th sum totals of Confirmed, Deaths, and Recovered for all listed nations should be... 1,431,202	138,406	and 472,629, respectively. I can't figure out how to make the corrections. I'm a newb. Skeptical Realist (talk) 03:17, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

When did WHO declare Europe the centre?
Also, why does the lede start with that? Europe was affected long before that.

I checked the source and it doesn't say WHO declared Europe the centre. It appears to verify the other information.— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  17:03, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I found a new source but the lede needs fixing.— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  17:52, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Why is Western Europe more badly affected?
The article should state why Western Europe is much more severely affected than Eastern Europe. Jim Michael (talk) 12:07, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Same question for North-America, China and Turkey: Why eastern America? Why Wuhan? Why Istanbul? Various factors might be involved:
 * sooner introduction due to higher level of travels?
 * higher spread due for instance to higher people density and older undergrounds and reduced number of smoker?
 * higher death due to older population?
 * Might be the disease is spreading anyway, and it is just a question of starting later!
 * But source are required... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.67.202.224 (talk) 19:11, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Suggestion: map with sub-national ratio of cases
As cases are not spread throughout the whole country and as every region has a different total population, sub-national data of this the number of cases divided by total population (in the considered sub-national political units) should give a better picture of risk, which is ideally presented by a map.
 * Yes a map by NUTS-region would be very interesting to show in this article. Who can make this? --PJ Geest (talk) 16:18, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

History section
A history section could be added to clarify the virus was yet introduced in Lombardy in January 2020 and spread in France in February 2020? - all signed by anon IP


 * Nov-Dec 2019, there were a few investigated first COVID-19 cases, either came from Chinese travelers in France or Italy, or elsewhere in the world. Currently, 1.5 million cases in Europe (might include the Eurasian countries of Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Russia and Turkey), the majority of them are recovered (some countries like the UK and the Netherlands have no data on recovered patients). And serological antibody studies of 1,000 samples in select sites in 8 European nations (Belgium, England, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands and esp. Spain and non-lockdown Sweden) find 5-15% of locals were exposed to become immune to SARS-CoV-2. 2605:E000:100D:C571:6DCE:ABEA:BC50:DF93 (talk) 07:20, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Not a single word on the European Union?
ECDC data shows that most of the Europe deaths occured in the EU (nearly 75%) or in EU close partner (nearly 96% for the EU/EEA+UK monitored by the EU agency)

In the same time, European Union response to the COVID-19 pandemic does not give those number, because it is focused on the response rather than on the pandemic...

Here, there is not a single word on the EU. Isn't it weird? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.136.155.159 (talk) 09:21, 29 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Yes, an idea could be to add in the section Response and criticism a sentence such as:
 * "Many European countries and organizations developed response to the pandemic, including European Union response to the COVID-19 pandemic."

Inclusion of new determinated date as the arrival date
There is 21 January 2020 as the arrival date of the pandemic in Europe. But it was determined and there have been evidences that the first human-to-human transmission occured on 19 January 2020, and the first case in France has been on 27 December 2019, or possible on the 2 December. So I think the date of 27 December 2019 or 19 January 2020 should be included as arrival date of the pandemic in Euroe. Space2006 (talk), 13:25, 1 June 2020 (UTC)


 * The 2 possible first cases in Dec. 2019 were in France, a country surrounded by higher infected countries by percentage of national population and per capita. France had almost 30,000 deaths out of 160,000 confirmed cases, however the UK, Spain and esp. Italy may had a higher rate of infections and deaths they didn't record at this time (June 2020). An estimated 1% of Belgian, British, German, Italian, Spanish and Swiss populations were non-diagnosed mild symptomatic cases, same with the Austrian, Danish, Dutch, Irish, Portuguese and Swedish populations. On March 2020, Western Europe was the epicenter of the COVID-19 pandemic for that month. France may be the first, but surprisingly not the worst, it happens to be Russia has the most cases per country and Luxembourg in per capita of population. 2605:E000:100D:C571:4C1D:EB7D:B365:D7B4 (talk) 00:44, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Map of Spain
Is there not a way to find another type of map for Spain or the Canary Islands Archipelago would be relatively close to the peninsula to facilitate the reading of the map, the vast majority currently represent a vacuum. This kind of map is currently used for the French one for exemple. - signed by anon IP


 * Spain is thought to have the most diagnosed (and undiagnosed) cases and possibly the most deaths (underestimate of mortality rate is less than 6,000) current death toll at 28k. Italy used to have the most official number of cases and deaths, they were the first European nation to lockdown. Now the UK has the most surpassing Italy, they delayed a lockdown 2 weeks after Italy and a week after Spain. 2605:E000:100D:C571:6DCE:ABEA:BC50:DF93 (talk) 07:23, 23 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Spain, France and the UK had serological samples (of about 1,000 people in select cities) of how many were probably exposed to SARS-CoV-2 and each country came out at about 5% of their populations or 1 out of 10 confirmed positive cases. 2605:E000:100D:C571:4C1D:EB7D:B365:D7B4 (talk) 01:53, 10 June 2020 (UTC)


 * I want to add European countries usually don't test those with mild symptoms and/or asymptomatic. They are urged to stay home, whether or not they have COVID or the flu. Examples of countries not known to test those with mild "cold-like" symptoms because most likely is a cold are Italy, Spain, Netherlands and Switzerland. 2605:E000:100D:C571:4C1D:EB7D:B365:D7B4 (talk) 02:03, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Image
— Preceding unsigned comment added by C.Suthorn (talk • contribs) 07:10, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

Case fatality rate map does not seem very helpful - remove it?
Right now the infobox has a case fatality rate map with the following legend: "Number of deaths per 100 confirmed COVID-19 infected inhabitants in Europe. The numbers are not comparable, as the testing strategy and death reporting differ between countries."

In other words, the map is misleading. The data it shows is only useful if you take the time to look up the procedures for each country (which ruins the advantage of having a quick visual representation), and if you do not, you might form an incorrect opinion of what it shows. While some map of a normalized measurement of case fatality rate could be useful, I am not sure this can be produced with current data, and a misleading map is in my opinion worse than no map at all. Should it be removed? Tigraan Click here to contact me 11:23, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Image??
What exactly does File:COVID-19 outbreak Europe per capita cases map.svg (used in the infobox) really measure? Per capita cumulative or current (i.e. as of 1 month ago) cases? In the latter case, this cant be used since some countries don't publish updates on recoveries. --Soman (talk) 16:52, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Comparison of death figures
How many people died in the last years in Europe between January, 1st and today? Are such information available? It would be good to compare this year with the last years to see if this virus is really a danger. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.222.184.161 (talk) 14:39, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Definition of first wave and second wave of Covid 19
There is some debate as to what we should consider to be the first wave and what we should consider the second wave. It has been suggested that we are still going up the first wave and that we will reach the very top of the first wave in January - February 2021 and the second wave will reach it's peak in January - February 2022 if there even is a second wave at all. Come to think of it these new definitions seem very likely to play out. If these new definitions become accepted lets just hope that there is no second wave at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vic20usa (talk • contribs) 22:23, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

death rate (vs population)
Could you provide the death rate? thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.206.161.165 (talk) 06:31, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:20, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Good Friday in St. Peter’s Square, Rome.jpg

Country comparison
For a week now, this page has been featuring a graph comparing weekly diagnosed cases per million inhabitants in a number of European countries. The graph does not tally with the data that can actually be seen at the ECDC site itself(*), which is cited as the source of the data. Indeed, while the shape of each country's curve is correct, the actual scale of the data is not - p.ex. the ECDC site shows Sweden to have the highest rate in June and July, and Spain since then. It very much looks as if, in producing the graph on this page, absolute case numbers were normalized to erroneous population figures. I previously raised this issue directly on Wikimedia, but to no avail. -- 91.168.109.20 (talk) 09:10, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

(*) choosing "Country Comparison", then "14-day cumulative incidence" - while the graph shown on Wikipedia uses three-week averages, a rather unusual measure, this does not significantly alter the outcome.


 * This misleading graph has now been on display for a whole week. Having raised this issue in multiple places to no avail, I'm removing it. -- 91.168.109.20 (talk) 13:04, 10 October 2020 (UTC)


 * The graph you have removed showed NEW cases not the cumulative incidence. The comparison is therefore erroneous. Chris55 (talk) 13:49, 11 October 2020 (UTC)


 * No, it isn't, whatever the name may suggest. The ECDC site also shows NEW cases, cumulated over a gliding 14-day window. Check it out for yourself. -- 91.168.109.20 (talk) 14:54, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Ok, I've now tracked it down. You're quite right: the population row in my spreadsheet got mixed up. I'll post a better graph. Chris55 (talk) 15:07, 11 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Thank you for fixing the graph. -- 91.168.109.20 (talk) 17:20, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

wave 2?
how about a paragraph "statistics"? Wikistallion (talk) 05:42, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

box news seemingly has the Europe data. Wikistallion (talk) 05:59, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

vox Wikistallion (talk) 05:59, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Updating
The table giving numbers for the countries, and the total, has not been updated in over a week. I'm not up to updating each country's information from the individual sources so unless there's an objection, I plan on updating all of the countries from the WHO site.

The daily progression has not been updated in over a month. I don't even know where to begin on updating for days between when it stopped and the current date; any suggestions?

Note, I'm not volunteering to update the page on a daily basis, only when I happen to need the data. Warren Dew (talk) 03:55, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Infobox and the First outbreak
I think that the section First outbreak should have info about the first outbreak in Europa, and not China. This infobox is headlined "COVID-19 pandemic in Europe", not the world.--Ezzex (talk) 22:06, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , please see item 3 of the General section of Current COVID-19 consensuses above. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 )  22:32, 22 November 2020 (UTC)\

Maps in the infobox
As the disclaimer says, the cases per capita statistic is not comparable between countries (for various reasons). Putting a non-comparable statistic on a map, and having that map on the very top of the article no less, invites the reader to do exactly what we caution them not to. I propose we switch the positions of the cases per capita and deaths per capita map on the infobox, or we remove the cases per capita map completely from the infobox. --Antondimak (talk) 08:17, 4 December 2020 (UTC)