Talk:COVID-19 pandemic in Ontario/Archive 2

WikiProject COVID-19
I've created WikiProject COVID-19 as a temporary or permanent WikiProject and invite editors to use this space for discussing ways to improve coverage of the ongoing 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic. Please bring your ideas to the project/talk page. Stay safe, -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 17:52, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia is Not a Newspaper
Wikipedia is not a newspaper ''While including information on recent developments is sometimes appropriate, breaking news should not be emphasized or otherwise treated differently from other information. Timely news subjects not suitable for Wikipedia may be suitable for our sister project Wikinews, though that is not a particularly active project.''

If wikipedia does not publish news, how useful is this Wiki article? The situation in Ontario is changing daily!! https://www.tvo.org/article/covid-19-what-you-need-to-know-for-march-16?fbclid=IwAR1LAjLWoS5dDrq8Yyl6R9-uyEg99M2j2KFhRk2sK-TUib7dwNCEntuJzso

''There are 177 cases of COVID-19 in Ontario, according to the latest numbers from provincial health officials on Monday morning. That's a jump of 32 cases from Sunday afternoon's official tally. All but nine of those are in the GTA. Five of them have been resolved.'' Are we trying to update the article daily or what? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-covid-19-coronavirus-monday-1.5498849

Peter K Burian (talk) 21:10, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Missing Table
Yesterday, March 16th, there was a table in the style of the one found on the article pertaining to the "2020 coronavirus pandemic in Canada". I cannot find it anywhere in the edit history. Does anyone know why it was removed? .iLlertton (talk) 18:17, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
 * You were probably confusing it with another article. This article never had such a table. Johnny Au  (talk/contributions) 00:07, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Reference for numbers
Toronto Star reported the numbers being used by the government are four days behind, what source other than the Ontario gov't website should we be using? CaffeinAddict (talk) 16:44, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I dont think there are any other sources - the reason the numbers are behind is not that they publish numbers too late but they are behind in testing. If you get tested today, your results are not available until 5-7 days later. --hroest 15:03, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
 * FYI: I added in the summary box three more death counts that are quite different from the lagging official death count: CBC's count, sum of PSU counts (from their official websites) and Toronto Star's count. Ninel (talk) 19:59, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * It should be noted that not all PSUs are reporting the death counts along with the other counts (such as Niagara Region), so adding them all up is border-line original research. -- Earl Andrew - talk 21:13, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Geographical distribution
Do we have any information on the geographical distribution of these cases? Should we add this to the article? It seems individual cities report their cases, such as


 * Toronto: https://www.toronto.ca/home/covid-19/
 * Hamilton: https://www.hamilton.ca/public-health/covid-19/novel-coronavirus-covid-19
 * Ottawa: https://www.ottawapublichealth.ca/en/public-health-topics/novel-coronavirus.aspx
 * Waterloo: https://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/health-and-wellness/confirmed-positive-cases-in-waterloo-region.aspx

But there is no graph or public website where this information is aggregated. --hroest 15:07, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
 * A table could be made, complete with cases per million. Johnny Au  (talk/contributions) 15:25, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

We can aggregate the data based on what cities, RMs, and counties give us in terms of # of cases. Username6892 15:28, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
 * York Region, 27 cases
 * Durham, 18
 * Peel, 26
 * Halton, 11
 * Niagara, 4
 * Souns great, I started a table. Of course a graphic / map would also be great! --hroest 16:12, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
 * A map of census divisions (they include single-tier municipalities, regional municipalities, counties, and districts) can also be made.
 * For example, here's a map of Ontario census divisions:
 * [[File:Ontario_census_divisions_by_type.png]]
 * Here's an example of a COVID-19 case map of New York state by county:
 * [[File:COVID-19 Cases in New York (state) by counties (12.03.2020).svg]]
 * Johnny Au (talk/contributions)
 * Someone would have to throw together an .svg for a Public Health Unit map, as it doesn't look like there are any on hand. For reference (Southern Ontario: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/82-402-x/2015002/maps-cartes/rm-cr07-eng.htm) (Northern Ontario: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/82-402-x/2015002/maps-cartes/rm-cr06-eng.htm) The Verified Cactus 100% 19:39, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
 * looks like there's something similar on the main Canada article:
 * [[File:COVID-19 outbreak Canada per capita cases map.svg]]
 * just needs some adjustment to Ontarian parameters The Verified Cactus 100% 20:19, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
 * The question is which source we would use for this, currently Health Units report numbers but I am not sure if all counties do. Is there a place where Ontario publishes data by county / Health Unit? Or do we have to aggregate these numbers ourselves? --hroest 19:10, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
 * The map from the main Canada article is updated daily by its creator. I added a crop of the Ontario section here along with a crop of the legend. It's not pretty but better than nothing. Maybe. --J S Lundeen (talk) 22:30, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * If the creator of the main Canada map could create separate maps for each province similar to the map of New York state that I included, but as a choropleth map and using public health units (since the Canadian provinces report by health units rather than by census division), it would be great. Johnny Au  (talk/contributions) 01:25, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Would death per million or per thousand, whichever makes sense, be a reasonable addition to the Geographic distribution table? I think cases per million does not tell the full story as it is dependent on the amount of testing each region is performing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:A21F:E27B:58AD:CFDE:5B04:8D06 (talk) 12:52, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Column has been added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:A21F:E27B:5856:4BB3:A3BC:74E0 (talk) 13:07, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Request* I don't know how too, but could we add a column to take cases per region subtract resolved cases so that there is an active case column? Seems like very relevant and useful information that is missing? Thanks and sorry if this is the wrong spot. I would do it if I knew how! ML — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.206.80.165 (talk) 15:15, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Link to main article
User:Vaselineeeeeeee has removed the link to the main article from the article and I would like to discuss whether we want to have such a link or not. All other provincial articles have this and it seems to make sense to have this here as well -- if not for consistency then at least for ease of navigation for users and editors. --hroest 16:26, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Since when does any respectable article have a main template at the top of it? While you're at it, put "main|2019–20 coronavirus pandemic" at the top of the Canada page. It is not there because it is not necessary. Whether or not it makes it "easier to navigate" is irrelevant as the links are given in the lead. Users are also probably more likely to already come to the Ontario page from the Canada page. If your issue is that it is like that on other articles, then those will be fixed, along with the leads. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 16:30, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I am in favour of coming up with a strategy that works for all provincial articles. My main concern is that the lead is linking to many different places including the virus, the disease, the Canadian pandemic article and the worldwide pandemic article. --hroest 17:45, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
 * That really isn't of any concern - leads have links. Perhaps the worldwide article can be done without, however, the Canada article is easily incorporated in the lead, meaning there is no need for the main. Right here: Template:Main This template should also not be used in lead sections. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 17:51, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me!. --hroest 18:08, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Deaths in each public health unit
It would be great if the table mentions the number of deaths in each public health unit. It would help readers know how many deaths each public health unit has. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 13:51, 26 March 2020 (UTC)


 * +1 for adding this. --hroest
 * I concur. After all, each day, there are more deaths in Ontario from COVID-19. Johnny Au  (talk/contributions) 02:33, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ Johnny Au  (talk/contributions) 00:44, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Timeline very different from government report
Why does the medical cases chart (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:2019–20_coronavirus_pandemic_data/Canada/Ontario_medical_cases_chart) look so different from the time plot made reported by the Ontario government (March 29 plot here: https://files.ontario.ca/moh-covid-19-report-en-2020-03-29.pdf)? Is the difference due to the delay involved in reporting the tests (ie. the wiki page gives the report date, and I'm guessing the gov't page gives the sample submission date)? Boardhead (talk) 11:48, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I can answer this myself. Reading the gov't document in detail, the "episode date" is "an approximation of onset date". A bit misleading because I think it makes the gov't plot look overly optimistic. Boardhead (talk) 11:54, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Recoveries in each public health unit
It would be great if the table mentioned recoveries in each public health unit, especially given the large numbers of recoveries in each public health unit. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 01:58, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I added recovery counts for all the PSUs that had such data. Ninel (talk) 19:49, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Health Units
Ontario now also publishes cases of each health unit in Appendix A of its daily report: https://files.ontario.ca/moh-covid-19-report-en-2020-04-02.pdf -- should we use these as official sources and update once per day? (they dont report death and resolved cases by health units). --hroest 15:48, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Since they don't report deaths or resolved cases, there's not much point. Each health unit is going to be more up to date, I think (in most cases). Also, the province seems to be lagging behind in its numbers, as the sum of the deaths from each health unit has been consistently higher than what the province is reporting. -- Earl Andrew - talk 22:30, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 April 2020
The dates of case, recovery and deaths numbers are all off by one day. The province updates the previous day's numbers in the morning. For example, April 15 should have 423 deaths, not 385. TheSandman2008 (talk) 15:43, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
 * It would be great to provide reliable sources to avoid original research. Johnny Au  (talk/contributions) 02:12, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Pending-protection-unlocked.svg Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details.  JTP (talk • contribs) 05:02, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

COVID-19 Testing
I summarized the information that existed in the testing section and expanded on it. It may need some reordering of sections. I will come back and fix the references. Many are duplicates and need to be joined. Some are missing titles.

Comments, suggestions, and additional content are welcome.

--J S Lundeen (talk) 23:06, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Looking great. Johnny Au  (talk/contributions) 01:23, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Long-Term Care Facilities Update
It would be great if the statistics for long-term care facilities were updated. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 01:34, 1 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Also stats for Amazon warehouses and meat packing plants. It is not just about number. Perhaps this entry could reflect different perspectives on the crisis - for example cuts to Public Health in Ontario, almost complete elimination of FULL nursing home inspections. See for example: https://trentresearchgrouponthepandemic.wordpress.com/2020/04/26/doug-fords-health-care-cuts-havoc-in-long-term-care-homes/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.50.38.17 (talk) 20:53, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Pinging, , and  Johnny Au  (talk/contributions) 00:08, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I just updated with data from cp24.com source that keeps GTA long-term care homes counts up to date. Someone should look up additional non-GTA sources to complement the cp24 data.Ninel (talk) 13:46, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

COVID-19 pandemic in Toronto
Hello Wikipedians, So the largest city in the Canadian province of Ontario is Toronto and also the provincial capital of Ontario, and the largest city in Canada, I hope anyone will create article titled COVID-19 pandemic in Toronto, The proposed article will be titled as title COVID-19 pandemic in Toronto will be focused on the pandemic within the city of Toronto, Ontario. The propose article will include how many active cases, how many deaths, how many recoveries and how many overall cases within the city of Toronto, Ontario, including the former cities of Etobicoke, North York and Scarborough. I will by happy for anyone's reply for the requested article to created and will be only focused on the city of Toronto, Ontario. Thanks for your time. Come back if the propose article is created. See you later. 2001:569:74D2:A800:BD02:776F:F499:1826 (talk) 08:30, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I am in favour of the creation of the COVID-19 pandemic in Toronto article. After all, there's an article for the pandemic in Montreal. What do you think,, , and ? Johnny Au  (talk/contributions) 16:05, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not opposed; but I won't work on it much, as an Ottawan.-- Earl Andrew - talk 22:53, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi Johnny Au, I support the propose article to be created as COVID-19 pandemic in Toronto. Anyone who support the Toronto article, now's the time! 2001:569:74D2:A800:7C6D:1BA4:51BB:DB05 (talk) 01:13, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I noticed there's a draftspace page for the pandemic in Peel Region. Should that article be merged with the Toronto one or not? Username6892 01:31, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
 * We could create an article on the Greater Toronto Area first and if it becomes large, it can be split again. Johnny Au  (talk/contributions) 14:00, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * After all, there's also the COVID-19 pandemic in the San Francisco Bay Area article for a metropolitan region. We can create either one for the Greater Toronto Area or be slightly broader to create one for the Golden Horseshoe. What do you think, ? Johnny Au  (talk/contributions) 17:36, 22 May 2020 (UTC)


 * I agree! It would be useful. CaffeinAddict (talk) 17:45, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I think it should just be for Toronto proper though, it gets too messy if you argue what is and isn't the GTA. If no one takes the initiative I might just start the article so people can fill it out. It's entirely warranted. CaffeinAddict (talk) 17:16, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
 * That would be a better idea, as the San Francisco Bay Area article is the only one for a metropolitan region (all others are for countries, administrative divisions, and cities proper (though there are a few for military bases and international conveyances)). I would love to take part in the COVID-19 pandemic in Toronto article. Johnny Au  (talk/contributions) 00:29, 27 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Done, created, thanks to the hard work by many editors. CaffeinAddict (talk) 17:33, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Johnny Au  (talk/contributions) 00:38, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Institutional Outbreak Graph
I added a graph showing institutional vs community spread to the statistics section. The other possible location would be the Long-term care home outbreak section but this graph is for all institutional outbreaks (e.g. hospitals, jails, etc) so it isn't directly relevant. The formatting isn't great. It is too large. Feel free to fix that. This is a remade copy of the graph at homepage as of June 3rd 2020. If you go to the source image it points to the .xlsx source file. J S Lundeen (talk) 22:30, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Looking great. Johnny Au  (talk/contributions) 00:59, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Blank Legend for the Cases per Capita Map
Apparently, the legend for colour-scale for the Cases per Capita map is blank. I would like to know who made the map and legend. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 01:22, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Dunno who had set it up like that. I removed the CSS crop and changed the tag to an Image and it displays OK now. // sikander { talk } 🦖 03:26, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Compromises have to be made, like it or not. Johnny Au  (talk/contributions) 00:37, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Total question of bias
Am I biased for wanting this viral pandemic/epidemic in Ontario to go down? I update the numbers frequently and sometimes I joke on the update page. I think it's not a bad thing for wanting people not to die. Right? CaffeinAddict (talk) 17:20, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
 * The edit summary is where we can express ourselves! (with valuable contextual information, of course) // sikander { talk } 🦖 15:51, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh, and it has to be accurate. Johnny Au  (talk/contributions) 01:06, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

"Talk:COVID-19 pandemic in Ontario/Archive 7" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Talk:COVID-19 pandemic in Ontario/Archive 7. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 December 7 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 14:49, 7 December 2020 (UTC)