Talk:COVID-19 pandemic in South Africa/Archive 1

Testing chart.

 * Does anyone know whether NICD reports number of tests broken down by whether the case is suspected import (recently traveled abroad) or suspected local transmission (no recent history of travel abroad)? TruthFearsNoQuestion (talk) 13:21, 15 March 2020 (UTC)


 * I haven't seen that shared publicly. -- Jeandré, 2020-03-27t07:10z


 * Could this chart be rotated so that the date runs horizontally and number of cases are displayed vertically. Its a far more natural way to chart somethingbthat increases over time. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:52, 17 March 2020 (UTC)


 * I think the pure numbers in the "by province" table is enough, so we probably don't need this table. It would be most useful in comparison with the cases, recovered, and deaths chart, but because it's so much higher it would make the low classifications useless to compare. -- Jeandré, 2020-03-27t07:10z


 * a simple line graph with a logarithmic scale could easily deal with numbers, but would "average" readers grok it? Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 08:41, 27 March 2020 (UTC)


 * I think there are enough log scales used in CoViD-19 reporting that it'll be understood. -- Jeandré, 2020-03-27t08:55z


 * Does anyone have proof of this chart Li&#39;l bougee Girl (talk) 17:00, 25 March 2020 (UTC)


 * See http://www.nicd.ac.za/covid-19-update-3/ http://www.nicd.ac.za/covid-19-update-4/ etc.. -- Jeandré, 2020-03-27t07:10z

Privacy concerns
Perhaps the cases table should be limited to just stating which province the patient was diagonised in without including the city as it may contain personal identifiable information. Consider also removing the treatment facility row as well for the same reason. There is a template that most other pages seem to be using giving a breakdown by province Template:2019-20 coronavirus pandemic data/Italy medical cases 196.42.123.165 (talk) 11:34, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree. This will soon need to move to switch to a table of statistics, not a list of individual cases. You could argue that the details of the first case were notable, but not for the 20th or 100th. Zaian (talk) 13:39, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I disagree on privacy concerns. Wikipedia is not censored, however I agree that a list of individual cases will become impossible once we reach larger numbers which is inevitable. For now, I think the table of individual cases stating which town they are in should remain. comrade waddie96 (talk) 16:12, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
 * How about using template:2019–20 coronavirus pandemic data/South Africa medical cases


 * after more than about 25 cases, or after community spread (no known source, local or travel)? -- Jeandré, 2020-03-13t06:57z

Addition of flags
As per MOS:FLAG and specifically WP:WORDPRECEDENCE: "Words as the primary means of communication should be given greater precedence over flags, and flags should not change the expected style or layout of infoboxes or lists to the detriment of words." The flags were very striking and do not convey any more information than the text of the country's name does. The focus of the table is to outline the cases and their individual characteristics, but to not place emphasis on their travel history. comrade waddie96 (talk) 16:15, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

WikiProject COVID-19
I've created WikiProject COVID-19 as a temporary or permanent WikiProject and invite editors to use this space for discussing ways to improve coverage of the ongoing 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic. Please bring your ideas to the project/talk page. Stay safe, --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 17:01, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Chart and Table are contradictory
The chart in the right margin, COVID-19 cases in South Africa, does not align with the total confirmed cases in the table, COVID-19 cases in South Africa by province. The most serious problem is 2020-03-15. The chart doesn't have a clear source - is it self-citing? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samvoigt (talk • contribs) 07:07, 18 March 2020 (UTC)


 * There may be a lag for transcluded items like these, which a browser page refresh should fix.
 * The table was updated at 2020-03-17t22:17:30 but the chart was only updated and then later fixed on 2020-03-18t01:02:34. The chart is a bit more difficult to edit, so it, and the map usually have the biggest lag. Usually the opening paragraph is edited 1st, then the infobox, table, chart, map, and outside tables and maps.
 * The table ends up with the most reliable sources ( and NICD), which is then reused elsewhere, including Template:2019–20 coronavirus pandemic data and Template:COVID-19 testing. -- Jeandré, 2020-03-18t07:39z

Map, reverting when numbers outdated.
If the SVG map hasn't been updated with the latest numbers quickly enough (Inkscape is an easy-to-use open source editor), there are currently 2 versions of the map which can be reverted to temporarily: neither have case numbers, and 1 has no shades of red in case Mpumalanga and/or Limpopo's cases go over 10.

If a case in a new province is announced, then feel free to upload a PNG map, tho updating SVGs are pretty easy. -- Jeandré, 2020-03-19t06:33z


 * There are 2 new numberless maps to revert to, if the SVG can't be updated with new numbers quickly enough: a 402 without numbers (if no provincial magnitudes change), and another numberless map to use if Mpumalanga exceeds 9 cases without any other province changing magnitude. -- Jeandré, 2020-03-24t05:24z

Recovered.
South africa recovered the second case Vhutali charlotte (talk) 07:26, 19 March 2020 (UTC)


 * We need a reliable source (DOH or NICD) before we can add it to the article. -- Jeandré, 2020-03-19t07:49z

Apparently there are no recovered cases yet those people were tested again and the tesults came out positive Li&#39;l bougee Girl (talk) 17:02, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Referencing.
How do we add a news article to the citation without if becoming an error? RoastPrune7 (talk) 02:04, 5 April 2020 (UTC)


 * First make sure the source is reliable - this is especially important for biographies of living people, and for figures about disease cases, deaths, and recoveries. Worldometers for instance is not a reliable source, because they focus on being as quick as possible instead of getting good sources.


 * The best source for important things like number of cases, deaths, and recoveries is the NICD. The 2nd best source is Minister Zweli Mkhize's published speeches. Major news agencies are third best. Avoid click-bait tabloids.
 * Also make sure it's a static source, not pages that are updated so that it differs when someone else looks at it later like the homepage of SAcoronavirus.co.za does.


 * Once you have a reliable source, put it between  tags in the article, e.g.
 * Someone else can later format it with a citation template. -- Jeandré, 2020-04-05t03:35z
 * Someone else can later format it with a citation template. -- Jeandré, 2020-04-05t03:35z

Suspension of Parliament, postponement of ANC and DA conferences and additional cases
Good day, everyone. Parliament has suspended all activities as of today due to the virus outbreak. The DA and ANC has postponed elective conferences. The Western Cape minister of health, Nomafrench Mbombo, is self-isolating due to her interaction with the French consul general Laurent Amar. Amar tested positive for Covid-19. Why aren't these things above mentioned in the article? I would, but I don't know where to add it. Kind regards. Lefcentreright Talk  (plz ping) 09:23, 19 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Create a new section and call it something like "Notable Infected Individuals"
 * Rangoane Mogosoane (talk) 13:35, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I have included parliament, ANC and DA under a new section on government and politics. Zaian (talk) 15:10, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Corona festival
On a more ironic note, the 2020 Corona Sunset Festival in Cape Town has been cancelled due to the Coronavirus pandemic. I dont think the event is notable enough to make it to main space but I guess it is worth mentioning as an ironic footnote here. --Discott (talk) 15:57, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Merge Stock Market News and Banking and Retail into new section?
Would it be a good idea to merge these two sections into one called Economic Impact? Aleksandar Bulovic&#39; (talk) 01:48, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think that would be a good idea. If those two topics evolve considerably in their own right in the future we can always break them out into two separate sections again.--Discott (talk) 08:10, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I decided to simply put all of these sections under a new section focusing on the "Economic Impact" of the pandemic instead of a direct merger. That way each section can be expanded greatly in their own right and still remain in the same section.--Discott (talk) 08:37, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Add chart of cases, comparing SA to other countries?
[Old chart overwritten.]-- Jeandré, 2020-03-23t09:05z


 * Why since the 6th confirmed case? Samvoigt —Preceding undated comment added 12:26, 23 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Some countries had very slow initial case confirmations. South Korea probably accurately, the USA probably due to lack of testing. If its not valid to start at case 6, then another chart will be needed. -- Jeandré, 2020-03-23t14:47z


 * Many charts that include China, starts after case 100. Once SA has more cases, 100 could be used for this chart also. -- Jeandré, 2020-03-25t05:05z

-- Jeandré, 2020-03-27t07:00z
 * [[File:CoViD-19 cases chart since 6th confirmed case, SA.png]]

National lockdown
Given that the national lockdown is a very large and notable event in its own right I have created a new section on this page just focusing on that. I have also moved content relevant to the national lockdown from the rest of the page into this new section.--Discott (talk) 10:14, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I am having trouble finding the original and easy to access version of the Government Gazette 25 March 2020 setting out the list of lockdown exemptions and non-exemptions. I would prefer to have the link pointing to an official government source than Politicsweb. Happy to leave the references pointing to Politicsweb though as Wikipedia tends to favour secondary sources over primary sources when referencing.--Discott (talk) 11:07, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * https://www.gov.za/sites/default/files/gcis_document/202003/4314825-3cogta.pdf -- Jeandré, 2020-03-27t13:09z
 * Fantastic, thanks !--Discott (talk) 17:01, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

The R0 section could use a comparison table
For South Africa, the R0 should be calculated from 2020-03-5 (Day 0). On the evening of 2020-03-26 (Day 22) with 927 confirmed cases, the average R0 is 1.3642. With this number, the predicted number of South Africans to be infected by 16 April would amount to 629,930. These calculations are purely based on the calculation of the current cases and do not take any of the actions taken into consideration. Should a 14-day view of the number of cases be considered, the R0 reduced to 1.3364. The awareness of the public and the measures to combat COVID-19 epidemic introduced by Government assisted in bringing this rate down. With an R0 of 1.3364, the predicted number of South Africans to be infected by 16 April would amount to 259,899. The announcement by President Cyril Ramaphosa on 23 March of the lockdown assisted bringing the R0 further down. If a 7-day view of the number of cases is considered, the R0 reduced to 1.2972. With an R0 of 1.2972, the predicted number of South Africans to be infected by 16 April would amount to 72,265. With the lockdown starting midnight 26 March, the R0 can be reduced even further.

This part could be summarised as a table.

There is a claim that R0 is calculated and depends on time. R0 is a dimensionless constant indicating how many additional susceptible individuals an infected transmits the disease to. It is dependent on the pathogen and the opportunity the infected have with susceptible individuals to infect them. It is not a growth rate for the epidemic. It is reasonable to predict future numbers using the current growth rates, but calling them R0 is incorrect and should be stopped. Call it %increase/day if needed, but not R0. Pekkapihlajasaari (talk) 13:40, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Misleading / original research R0 section
I'm going to delete this because a) everything particular to South Africa has no references, and b) it looks like it's based on an invalid model (mainly that the initial returning-traveler numbers represent local transmission). Given the "life and death" gravity of this subject, leaving such "good news" speculation in the article feels dangerous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bernd Jendrissek (talk • contribs) 03:25, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

District maps?
-- Jeandré, 2020-04-02t16:13z
 * Oooh, nice. Yes, I was also thinking that now would be a good time to start adding a few regional maps. I vote to add them to the article.--Discott (talk) 19:25, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I concur comrade waddie96 (talk) 14:12, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Inserted into lede infobox, collapsed. -- Jeandré, 2020-04-06t08:21z
 * Fantastic, thank you ! --Discott (talk) 13:13, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
 * What happened to theses maps? I cant seem to find them on the main page.--Discott (talk) 07:19, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Moved to 2020 coronavirus pandemic in South Africa. -- Jeandré, 2020-04-28t17:04z
 * Good to know, thanks.--Discott (talk) 09:11, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Line breaks
Jeandré du Toit, I got a notification that you have reverted me. I understand your point. Please fix the lead. The line breaks with one line paragraphs make the article look very awkward. please expand it to have 2-3 lines at least. Thank you. --Cedix (talk) 11:52, 4 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The lockdown sentence is probably the 2nd most important sentence in the article, and I think it should stay as succinct as possible - in fact I'd prefer it shorter by removing the announcement date from the sentence in the lede. I'm not sure how to keep it as prominent if expanded or combined with other sentences into a paragraph. ¿Priority 1. reliable sourced, 2. focus the eye to the most important info, 3. other? -- Jeandré, 2020-04-04t12:07z
 * Jeandré please compare this with other similar articles on COVID on other countries. The lead of SA article needs expansion by including a summary of the entire article. the refs are not needed for  a summary as the refs are there in the article body below. --Cedix (talk) 09:44, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Table of confirmed cases by province.
What happened to the summary table of cases by province? Gregorydavid (talk) 08:58, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
 * collapsed by default comrade waddie96 (talk) 14:12, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Please educate me, how do tables collapse by default? Where can I read more about this? Gregorydavid (talk) 14:52, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Help:Table and Help:Collapsing for technical info. comrade waddie96 (talk) 16:19, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I see there is lots to learn. Gregorydavid (talk) 17:10, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I collapsed it because the recent reporting of provincial increases and reporting of data cleaning is poor, so we can't safely just subtract daily totals to get to the provincial increases. It's also getting long, and while the chart's display can be shortened to show only the last 15 days, I'm not sure how to do the same for the table. Do people prefer uncollapsing the table again? -- Jeandré, 2020-04-06t06:08z
 * I was just going to comment on how scruffy the table has become and noticed your motivation here. I am just wondering if collapsing the table has resulted in it receiving less attention? Gregorydavid (talk) 01:15, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure there are good sources available to fill in the unknown cells. The most reliable national sources are the NICD and DOH, tho they've recently sometimes not reported the numbers of new cases per province, and twice didn't even report the cumulative provincial totals. Media sources are not that reliable, because they may just be subtracting provincial totals, which is unreliable since changes and data cleaning (recently Free State went down with 2 cases in 2 days despite no RS mentioning this) is not reported well. The WC premier has released some detailed reports including subdistrict, hospitalization, and screening numbers, and always as of 00:01, but that sometimes contradicts the NICD and DOH's numbers for the WC which doesn't include a time of day so may be as of any time.
 * The only other African country with a data template for it as far as I know is Nigeria, and they only list current totals per state - not over time. Should we adopt the Nigerian format (will require moving ref parameters out of the template first), the the Australian cumulative format by area (tho there have been days without even provincial totals given by the NICD and DOH), or something else? -- Jeandré, 2020-04-09t07:53z

Rename to "2020 COVID-19 pandemic in South Africa"?
Coronavirus is too vague a name for an encyclopedia article. While some news sources still use that term, many more are now following the specific scientific name COVID-19 instead as people are being better educated about it. This is not a pandemic caused by 1 of the 4 common cold human coronaviruses, SARS, or MERS. -- Jeandré, 2020-04-20t06:02z
 * That sounds reasonable, but there is a whole series of country articles with this naming convention, so it would have to be done at that level, not just for South Africa. Zaian (talk) 09:07, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
 * ... and there's a moratorium on page move proposals at the moment. Zaian (talk) 09:43, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Isn't the moratorium just on 2019%E2%80%9320 coronavirus pandemic? Just because others are using a poor title doesn't mean we should also do it for the SA article. -- Jeandré, 2020-04-20t09:57z
 * Strictly speaking maybe, but it's a precendent, and a discussion about renaming this article would probably apply to other articles in the series as well. Zaian (talk) 11:42, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Jeandré the year 2020 in the title should clear any ambiguity on which Coronavirus this article is about. --Cedix (talk) 10:08, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't always remember the years of the flu and cholera epidemics, and an encyclopedic article should not require people in the future to remember when SARS, MERS, and other possible waves had worldwide outbreaks again. -- Jeandré, 2020-04-20t10:32z
 * For what it is worth, I support a move to using the correct official name for the disease in the title.&middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 20:47, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
 * There is discussion going on at Requested move 26 April 2020. Zaian (talk) 07:57, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
 * ... and it resolved in favour of renaming. Jeandré you called it right! Zaian (talk) 10:53, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

For the record (so it is easier to look up past page view statistics) the previous name of this article was 2020 Coronavirus pandemic in South Africa. Took me a while to look it up so as to track view counts. The term 2020 coronavirus outbreak in South Africa was also used at some stage as well.--Discott (talk) 08:09, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Interesting side note. These pages have collectively been |COVID-19_pandemic_in_South_Africa|2020_coronavirus_outbreak_in_South_Africa|Coronavirus_outbreak_in_South_Africa|2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_South_Africa viewed 2,047,531 times since the 3 March 2020 with over 90,000 views on the 23 March at its peak.--Discott (talk) 08:13, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Corona-stats website.
The link https://corona-stats.co.za/ was added to the External Links section of this article recently, but removed as the site had no information on authorship / ownership. For context, here is an article from UCT about the site: COVID-19 dashboard ‘by and for South Africans’ Zaian (talk) 20:26, 20 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I've put it back.
 * The lockdown line is very useful. Anyone know how we can add that and the school closure date in the wiki charts? -- Jeandré, 2020-04-21t11:18z

Gauteng map?
Hi, all. The Gauteng Health Department has now introduced a map depicting the amount of COVID-19 cases in the respective metros and districts of the province. Can somebody maybe create a freely-licensed map that can be included in the article? See here and here. Kind regards. Lefcentreright Talk  (plz ping) 16:55, 23 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Is there a .gov.za site that regularly gives updates on these numbers? Twitter.com keeps giving me errors, and the EWN site doesn't seem to have a category for this to check. The WC and NW premiers are regularly giving updates at https://www.gov.za/media-statements and there are also maps at https://www.westerncape.gov.za/department-of-health/news -- Jeandré, 2020-04-24t10:49z

Totals not adding up.
I am having a problem with the statistics provided on website https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_South_Africa#Provinces_and_municipalities on the subject, "COVID-19 confirmed cases in South Africa by province", in that the total cases and new cases per day, doesn't add up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.119.224.156 (talk) 21:09, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Sometimes daily changes in numbers are not reported - we're using the official sources, but there's usually very poor reporting on data cleaning (when it turns out someone didn't actually test postitive, or subsequent tests showed the initial test was wrong), so we can't just subtract figures to add missing numbers. If there's a zero, then that's what the source reported - if the cell is empty then the data wasn't reported.
 * If not missing, but incorrect: which dates?
 * The NICD images, and gov.za/speeches HTML seem to be good about not changing pages without indicating that they've made changed, because they have version numbers in file names and instead point to newer versions of files, but some other sites are a mess. -- Jeandré, 2020-05-16t09:17z

[South Africa daily CoViD-19 medical] cases chart not matching the total number in header.
Hi, Header today is: Total new cases 15,515. that DOES match the Latest tweet, but the daily case graph is missing the latest count form May 17 of 1,160 cases. it stops at yesterdays 831 new cases. as does the total over time chart.

Latest count: https://twitter.com/DrZweliMkhize/status/1262106273128087552?s=20

the SA department of health does terrible maths themselves, so that might cause hassles in your data feed. Thanks! Goldfinger100

Goldfinger100 (talk) 04:58, 18 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Template:COVID-19 pandemic data/South Africa medical cases chart updated manually for 05-17 and 05-18. Anyone know how to do it automatically from verifiable sources? I can't verify anything from Twitter because the domain doesn't load for me. -- Jeandré, 2020-05-19t07:34z


 * Template:COVID-19 pandemic data's ref fixed, someone else updated the data for 05-1 7 8. -- Jeandré, 2020-05-19t07:38z

Map, recoveries, colour mistake.
Eastern Cape has over 1000 recoveries SouthAfricanCitizen (talk) 18:58, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I'll fix it with the 05-23 update which I'm doing now. Feel free to try out free SVG editors like InkScape to edit images like these (use the objects view to select parts in the provincial maps which you can't just click). -- Jeandré, 2020-05-23t19:43z
 * Fixed. -- Jeandré, 2020-05-23t20:32z

Lead: include estimates?
Hello.

Thank you for including the projections:

"Scientific experts and the the Department of Health presented data on 19 May 2020 estimating 475 confirmed COVID-19 deaths by the end of May, and more than $40,000$ deaths by November. There could also be insufficient ICU beds by June or July. "

The projection time horizon of 6 months, until November 2020, is relatively far. Estimates that far into the future are very likely to be inaccurate/wrong. The lead/introduction is not for speculative information which could engender unwarranted panic. I am going to revert your projection introduction section. Ear-phone (talk) 21:11, 21 May 2020 (UTC)


 * I didn't see this section when I reinstated some of the estimates. The information has been released by the DoH tho, and I think it's probably one of the most important things in the article. Manual of Style/Lead section has an example with an estimate: "Others estimate 8,000 died within two weeks and another 8,000 or more have since died from gas-related diseases." -- Jeandré, 2020-05-22t17:21z
 * Yes, but note how the example is based in the past (died, not will die) and (have since died, not would have died). An estimate like the one you are putting forth would make sense if it were to be added somewhere in September or October, not this early in May, and especially not in the lead. •Shawnqual• 📚 • 💭 19:54, 22 May 2020 (UTC)


 * The scientitis who developed the model state, "“There are, however, many factors that could cause deviations from these projections, including individual behavior change and tighter (or looser) restrictions than we currently assume.” “The projections we have made are based on a simplified, and fairly pessimistic, set of assumptions about people's behaviour.”".
 * For a neutral point of view, these caveats would need to be added in the interests of fair and proportionate representation of information. I am going to revert your edit and leave the info. in the body of the article.Ear-phone (talk) 23:27, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I am really not too sure how to proceed on this so I checked for precidence on other similar pages for guidance. The article on the UK has its own "modeling" section on estimates and puts all that content there from what I can currently see. The USA article lead seems to focus more on the Trump administrations eccentricities during the crisis with general warnings about "accelerated transmissions" and also puts the predictions in its own section. The closest the Indian article lead comes to predictions is a mention on grow rates. Judging from this small sample of the better developed COVID 19 country articles I would say the current precedence is to not include predictions but rather put that in its own dedicated section focusing on "modeling" the pandemic's growth.--Discott (talk) 14:40, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I am really not too sure how to proceed on this so I checked for precidence on other similar pages for guidance. The article on the UK has its own "modeling" section on estimates and puts all that content there from what I can currently see. The USA article lead seems to focus more on the Trump administrations eccentricities during the crisis with general warnings about "accelerated transmissions" and also puts the predictions in its own section. The closest the Indian article lead comes to predictions is a mention on grow rates. Judging from this small sample of the better developed COVID 19 country articles I would say the current precedence is to not include predictions but rather put that in its own dedicated section focusing on "modeling" the pandemic's growth.--Discott (talk) 14:40, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Lockdown section
I think that given the length and detail of the "Preparations and response" section, in addition to the high level of public interest in the lockdown, that the section should be broken up a bit. Most specifically that the National lockdown should now have its own dedicated section.--Discott (talk) 14:54, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Maps : No numbers?
Is my wiki somehow acting up or are there no numbers of confirmed cases on provinces? SouthAfricanCitizen (talk) 11:16, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello ., the creator of the daily numbered maps is away. Ear-phone (talk) 12:02, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

👊🏿 SouthAfricanCitizen (talk) 14:07, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Patients
Hello A patient may be defined as, "a person receiving or registered to receive medical treatment.". Not all those who died from COVID-19 were receiving or registered to receive medical care e.g. some in nursing homes. I will change from patients to people for deaths, in the introduction. Ear-phone (talk) 13:54, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Number of deaths on 4 June
The total number of deaths on 4 June 2020 was actually 848. But the page has this number at 858. This is an actual error in Wikipedia and it should be corrected. 163.202.51.19 (talk) 16:05, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Data table deaths split by Province
I see there is a data table in the section on Statistics which splits the cases by Province but there is just a total deaths listed as one number. Is it possible to get the daily deaths data split by Province as well? Anyone know where I can find that? Thanks 163.202.51.15 (talk) 15:27, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

That would be quite redundant as we already have a map, on the infobox showing the provincial data of cases, deaths, and recoveries. Leaderofthewave. (talk) 10:42, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, the table will also contain data of how the deaths distribution progressed over time whereas your infobox solution only shows the breakdown for the latest numbers. 163.202.51.19 (talk) 16:04, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * @163.202.51.19 You could go to the source, https://sacoronavirus.co.za/, where you'll find every day represented by a picture of a map with a date and the essential national figures. When clicking on any of those maps, it'll give you the provincial breakdown of cases, deaths and recoveries for each day; but you'll not find the table that you're looking for. The solution would be to copy and paste those numbers into a spreadsheet until you've created the table yourself - as I have done. With the greater number of Wikipedia editors, arguing about stuff such as tables and graphs and whatnot, will not bring you anywhere. Having futilely spent a lot of time of arguing about a particular thing which I know a lot about, with them clearly being 99% ignorant about it, taught me a simple lesson: on Wikipedia, we unequivocally have, right under our noses, far more genuises happily tapping away on computer keyboards than we've ever expected. Timflamink (talk) 23:02, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Numeric style
Leaderofthewave. why did you restore the numeric style with gaps? This is not standard style for numbers. DIGITS Greenman (talk) 20:10, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

For consistency. As throughout the whole article they are formatted as such. Leaderofthewave. (talk) 23:57, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Leaderofthewave. Any objections to using the standard style? The space is used in numbers in Afrikaans, which is where I think the confusion came from, but it shouldn't be used in English. Greenman (talk) 17:33, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Which "standard style" are you referring to? From my understanding of MOS:NUMBERS gaps, and commas can be used interchangeably to format strings of digits. Leaderofthewave. (talk) 17:40, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Leaderofthewave., thanks for changing! Gaps are also acceptable, but all the COVID-19 articles I've come across use commas, so this seems preferable. Greenman (talk) 23:52, 27 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Can we go back to gaps $1,117,569$ ($479,768$ complete) instead of commas $1,117,569$ ($479,768$ complete)? Commas are ambiguous, whereas reliable scientific sources use gaps instead, e.g. https://www.nicd.ac.za/latest-confirmed-cases-of-covid-19-in-south-africa-2-june-2021/ -- Jeandré, 2021-06-04t03:52z

Numbers on infobox maps
Is it necessary to continue our '"practice" of numbering the maps? As most articles on this subject only make use of colours and a corresponding legend. Furthermore, the provincial breakdown can be found in a template under the Statistics subsection. Leaderofthewave. (talk) 22:09, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Needs updating
Hello, all. Thanks for all the work being done! Some parts of this article are in need of an update, especially these images:
 * File:CoViD-19 pandemic cases in South Africa, Western Cape municipalities.svg
 * File:CoViD-19 pandemic recoveries in South Africa, Western Cape municipalities.svg
 * File:CoViD-19 pandemic map, cases in South Africa, North West municipalities.svg
 * File:CoViD-19 pandemic cases in South Africa, Gauteng districts.svg.

All of them were last updated in May. I would love to do it, but I don't know how. Maybe can help?

Lastly, this template Template:COVID-19 pandemic data/South Africa, Western Cape medical cases was updated a month ago. Is it still necessary to be included in the article or should it be dropped?

Have a nice Sunday. Best, Lefcentreright  Discuss   21:47, 4 July 2020 (UTC)


 * you could try downloading the images in question as SVGs from commons, then make use of an SVG editor, there's plenty but personally I use Inkscape (about 80 MB in size).


 * The template... not sure. Perhaps if you have a source you may update its data, however i do not object in having it removed completely. Leaderofthewave. (talk) 11:57, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

List of notable deaths of South Africa
List of notable deaths of South Africa? Axxter99 (talk) 12:30, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

. Would you consider embedding the list in the article? e.g. some countries have done this for a similar list? e.g. COVID-19_pandemic_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland. Ear-phone (talk) 11:43, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

National infection rate
The infection rate appears to have peaked around 20 July when the confirmed weekly infections reached 89,529 and have been dropping daily since then. This can be seen from and which I monitor daily. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jamieoglethorpe (talk • contribs) 05:46, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

South Africa had very few influenza cases in the 2020 winter season, likely due to Covid restrictions. Archive TGCP (talk) 21:06, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Request for comment - cases change metrics
Please take part in discussion here: Project COVID-19, Medical cases charts - change type — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kohraa Mondel (talk • contribs) 23:01, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Template size too large
It seems the template size for this page has been exceeded. Template_limits. Any preferences on how to proceed? Options that I can see are moving the Western Cape section to its own page, and/or rationalising some of the statistics templates. Greenman (talk) 18:06, 18 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I propose having one national COVID-19 pandemic data template e.g. like COVID-19 pandemic in Brazil, COVID-19 pandemic in New Zealand, COVID-19 pandemic in mainland China, etc. There are several valid ways to present sub-national data e..g at the moment there are maps and line graphs for this page. Rationalising and updating these could be an option. Ear-phone (talk) 18:39, 18 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I only just noticed this now and it is a problem that we should try to fix ASAP. The article has also started becoming too long anyway. I have been meaning to ask this for some time now here but this I think is a good catalyst to make the following proposal. I propose that we split the following subsections off into their own articles: Timeline of COVID 19 in South Africa, Lockdown (as there is always a lot of interest in learning about the lockdowns and how it practically works/effects people), Notable Deaths list. Hopefully that will be enough to get the templates working again and should also make the article more readable/concise. I also agree with the proposal to create a Western Cape article.--Discott (talk) 12:05, 29 December 2020 (UTC)


 * If no one objects I think I am going to go ahead and move some content from this article into one or two new articles.--Discott (talk) 08:52, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Deaths more than the weekly average?
[Can] we include the related deaths not from covid the same [...] timeframe -- 197.95.177.213, 2020-04-23T18:19:22


 * I think this is related to 2020 coronavirus pandemic in South Africa, and asking for average deaths over the same time in previous years. Anyone know if StatsSA does this, the way ONS in the UK does: https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/16645/production/_111871719_mortality_01-nc.png -- Jeandré, 2020-04-23t18:47z


 * The South African Medical Research Council does this. Please help keep an eye on their news page for reports like https://www.samrc.ac.za/news/report-weekly-deaths-south-africa https://www.samrc.ac.za/sites/default/files/files/2020-04-29/WeeklyDeaths21April2020.pdf -- Jeandré, 2020-05-04t09:50z


 * Not broken down by disease though. And where are the details from previous years to see how accurate their forecasts typically are?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 102.65.54.41 (talk) 13:26, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Diagram of recoveries by age?
Is it possible to include a CoViD-19 recoveries by age in South Africa diagram similar to the CoViD-19 deaths by age in South Africa diagram? I don't know if recoveries-by-age data exists. Thanks. —Bruce1eetalk 09:58, 20 May 2020 (UTC)


 * I don't know of recoveries- or cases-by-age stats. Recent Mkhize releases like https://www.gov.za/speeches/minister-zweli-mkhize-confirms-total-17-200-cases-coronavirus-covid-19-20-may-2020-0000 only split deaths by age. -- Jeandré, 2020-05-20t10:33z


 * Pity, I think that would be a very useful statistic. Anyway thanks, and for all your hard work on this page. —Bruce1eetalk 11:35, 20 May 2020 (UTC)


 * The Western Cape provides some indication on their dashboard. https://coronavirus.westerncape.gov.za/covid-19-dashboard.  Bottom right corner has deaths and cases by age group.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 102.65.54.41 (talk) 13:30, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Graph comparing deaths in other countries.
Re. Which countries should be in this graph? I initially chose
 * the USA as the country with the highest number of cases, a good percentage of testing, and a terrible "lockdown".
 * Italy for being the 1st country to pass China, and a similar semi stay-at-home situation to SA.
 * China for being an example of an actual lockdown, and for a country without any warning.
 * South Korea and Taiwan as examples of no lockdown, but excellent testing, tracing, and isolation. Also because SK's initial arc was so similar to SA's.
 * Iceland and New Zealand because of their proactive nature and actually stopping their outbreaks, instead of choosing short term financial gain by sacrificing some of their older citizens.

Should the chosen countries instead be the top few, and/or other African countries similar to SA?

I'd really like SK, NZ, Iceland, and/or Taiwan in there to show what a good approach can do tho. -- Jeandré, 2020-05-21t09:57z


 * Such a graph isn't actually necessary within the scope of this article. No other country's articles have one to my knowledge. However, that isn't a strong enough reason for this article to not have such a graph. An important thing in statistical standards is to plot elements with an objective, clear and strong relationship between them or ones with a clear base. For such a graph, the most objective elements (countries) directly in relationship with South Africa are other African countries (as they are in the same continent = good base level). The countries you have listed above with your reasoning for choosing them are very subjective and hence not according to statistical standards. In a nutshell, we cannot choose elements which we think are good, they must be ones which establish a coherent relationship with the main element. I have thought of other base levels but none of them are as strong as other African countries. •Shawnqual• 📚  • 💭 02:22, 22 May 2020 (UTC)


 * South Africa is very different from other African countries historically, economically, and in terms of medical capacity - I think Brazil is probably closer. Shouldn't the countries with the extremes also be included for comparison? -- Jeandré, 2020-05-22t17:28z


 * South Africa is very different from other African countries historically, economically, and in terms of medical capacity. By this logic, all the countries chosen above (Iceland, Taiwan, China etc....) are just as different if not more or less from South Africa as well. Brazil is probably closer Again, very, very subjective! I repeat, there needs to be an objective relationship to the elements chosen. African countries are all in the same continent, does not matter how different their situations are, they are in the same continent, which can be used as an objective base level. Using countries with extremes makes little sense, it is bound to make the main element (South Africa in the graph) look minuscule in comparison! That is not how graphs are made. •Shawnqual• 📚  • 💭 19:50, 22 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Good is relative. There is no way South Africa could have sustained the method used by New Zealand.  Even the few weeks of closing everything caused extensive damage to South Africa's already floundering economy.  About an eighth of jobs were wiped out.  It is as yet undetermined how many people were killed by the interventions.  There will be serious repercussions for years for a country that was already desperately short of money due to more than a decade of gross mismanagement.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 102.65.54.41 (talk) 13:42, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Ivermectin
Just make sure not to talk about the elephant in the room. Just 50 publications, of clinical RCT quality or better, all showing that ivermectin stops covid-19, like [Hellwig et al., International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents, doi:10.1016/j.ijantimicag.2020.106248, A COVID-19 Prophylaxis? Lower incidence associated with prophylactic administration of Ivermectin, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920304684 = no evidence and thus must be kept out of the article. We don't want to allow the information to get out and save lives. The graph therein showing 90% lower death rates where ivermectin is taken must be censored. The Lancet is not a reliable source. The Lancet. --50.201.195.170 (talk) 07:10, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Moved list of notable deaths
This is just an FYI that I have moved the list of notable South African deaths to its own page. The list was getting too long for the page and it should help reduce the overall size of the page which has been an issue for some time now.--Discott (talk) 11:38, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

COVID-19 vaccination in South Africa
Hello. Some of the content in the Vaccination section seems to be more suited for the main article COVID-19 vaccination in South Africa.

Ear-phone (talk) 21:04, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Masks?
I am confused about mask policy. Probably because I don't follow any South African news. Masks appear to still be compulsory in shops, but are they for outdoor walks? --StephanNaro (talk) 07:29, 19 April 2021 (UTC)


 * You have to look at the most recent version of the Disaster management act, because a lot of articles and undated official FAQs are quickly out of date and not updated. The rules for level 1 is unfortunately being changed, instead of increasing the level we're at, making it difficult to know what the law is currently.
 * The 2021-02-28 amendment states:
 * Mandatory protocols when in a public place
 * 70. [...] (3) No person will be allowed to- [...]
 * (c) be in any public open space, if he or she is not wearing a face mask.
 * [unless they] (4) undertake[] vigorous exercise in a public place, provided that the person maintains a distance of at least one and a half metres from any other person.
 * That's the law currently, as far as I know.
 * (However, 2 days ago the CDC updated their guidance: Scientific Brief: SARS-CoV-2 Transmission, CDC acknowledges airborne transmission "Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from inhalation of virus in the air farther than six feet from an infectious source can occur" "and in some cases to people who have passed through that space soon after the infectious person left."
 * That's definite for enclosed spaces, so being outside without a mask but 1.5m away from others should still be relatively safe, but if there's very little wind or the wind is blowing from a shedding (even if not symptomatic) person to another, then infecting and killing others can still happen even when people are more than 1.8m away.) -- Jeandré, 2021-05-09t11:39z
 * (However, 2 days ago the CDC updated their guidance: Scientific Brief: SARS-CoV-2 Transmission, CDC acknowledges airborne transmission "Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from inhalation of virus in the air farther than six feet from an infectious source can occur" "and in some cases to people who have passed through that space soon after the infectious person left."
 * That's definite for enclosed spaces, so being outside without a mask but 1.5m away from others should still be relatively safe, but if there's very little wind or the wind is blowing from a shedding (even if not symptomatic) person to another, then infecting and killing others can still happen even when people are more than 1.8m away.) -- Jeandré, 2021-05-09t11:39z

B.1.617.2 and B.1.1.7 in lede?
Hello. Would you consider this appearing in the timeline and not also in the lead?

''On 8 May 2021 local cases of confirmed variants of concern B.1.617.2 (first detected in India) and B.1.1.7 (first detected in the UK, which has a higher transmissibility and is more lethal than South Africa's dominant B.1.351) were reported. ''

Ear-phone (talk) 12:50, 10 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Feel free to remove it. I put it there because B.1.351 is thought to be the reason for the 2nd wave. Since B.1.1.7 has a higher transmissibility and is more lethal than B.1.351, it seems like important enough to be in the lede to me. Not enough is known about B.1.617.2's transmissibility, lethality, or antigenicity to say how important it will be, but considering what it's doing in India now it may be important enough. -- Jeandré, 2021-05-10t13:02z


 * A solid rationale . Thank you. Ear-phone (talk) 20:06, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Color scheme C?
I'm uploading the maps using color scheme C. Shall we use it also for the charts?

Confirmed cases: {{legend|#d5d5ff|table background}} {{legend|#aaaaff|1-9}} {{legend|#5555ff|10-99}} {{legend|#0000ff|100-999}} {{legend|#0000aa|$1,000$-9999}} {{legend|#000055|$10,000$-$99,999$}} {{legend|#00002b|$100,000$+}}

Active cases (eventually only stay in charts and historical or timelapse maps): {{legend|#ffd5d5|table background}} {{legend|#ffaaaa|1-9}} {{legend|#ff5555|10-99}} {{legend|#ff0000|100-999}} {{legend|#aa0000|$1,000$-9999}} {{legend|#550000|$10,000$-$99,999$}} {{legend|#2b0000|$100,000$+}}

Recoveries (vaccinated?): {{legend|#d5ffd5|table background}} {{legend|#aaffaa|1-9}} {{legend|#55ff55|10-99}} {{legend|#00d400|100-999}} {{legend|#00aa00|$1,000$-9999}} {{legend|#005500|$10,000$-$99,999$}} {{legend|#002b00|$100,000$+}}

Deaths: {{legend|#f6d5ff|table background}} {{legend|#eeaaff|1-9}} {{legend|#dd55ff|10-99}} {{legend|#cc00ff|100-999}} {{legend|#8800aa|$1,000$-9999}} {{legend|#440055|$10,000$-$99,999$}} {{legend|#22002b|$100,000$+}} -- Jeandré, 2020-05-15t18:17z
 * Darkened recoveries 100-999. -- Jeandré, 2020-05-17t11:09z
 * Table background colors. -- Jeandré, 2020-05-17t12:28z

I Updated the map and used the color scheme, vaccination data by province is currently not available, but should be in the next few weeks. Should I add the vaccination map to this page as it may not fit? TapticInfo (talk) 16:01, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Map changes.
Hello, I have recently made some changes to the following maps on the page. I used mostly the color scheme posted above and a little redesign, I should be able to update the maps weekly from now on, just wanted to see if they looked fine? TapticInfo (talk) 18:54, 24 May 2021 (UTC)




 * These scales that more actively use all 3 colors are more useful than the previous ones where everything happened to fall within only 2 groups. The first 2 maps end up just showing population (or testing prevalence), so per capita would be better, but that's more work to generate. -- Jeandré, 2021-06-30t07:59z

Dates without year
I have found the tendency to omit the year can be quite annoying, as it often requires far more reading to establish when things happened, and to work out whether an event is current or happened last year. This will get worse over time. I recommend using full dates as default whenever the year is not immediately obvious from paragraph context. Cheers, &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 06:47, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Excess deaths, can someone make a graph?
https://www.samrc.ac.za/reports/report-weekly-deaths-south-africa

Latest spreadsheet: https://www.samrc.ac.za/sites/default/files/files/2021-03-10/Estimated%20deaths%201%2B%20yrs%20for%20SA%206%20Mar2021%20with%20adj2.xlsx

It looks like only the WC's reporting is close to the actual deaths, with MP being the most inaccurate. -- Jeandré, 2021-03-16t04:18z


 * Done:
 * South Africa, deaths, CoViD-19 and excess.png
 * I think this under counting of the number of deaths is very important. Should it go into the article? -- Jeandré, 2021-03-20t11:24z
 * Unless someone comes up with a good reason not to, I would say go ahead. &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 07:10, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Broken references :19 and :25.
Excuse me you have added here  a few odd references named ":19" and ":25" which are not defined anywhere.

What was it you meant to do? Are these new references or old ones you wished to use? (Asking as a gnome who wants to fix the error) Horsesizedduck (talk) 00:52, 30 June 2021 (UTC)


 * It looks like referenced additional text using :19 and :25 which wasn't defined at that time and isn't currently.
 * The edit I made added the "2021-06-27ramaphosa" ref, and named an unnamed invoked ref "2021-02-02kobedi".


 * I suggest we use human readable ref names, to make editing easier. -- Jeandré, 2021-06-30t07:45z


 * Sorry, I think that was an issue on my side TapticInfo (talk) 12:32, 30 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Sweet Jesus, that's a lot of errors
 * Folks, all that's necessary is to determine what connects to where:
 * Problem1: Right now, "sac2020-04-23ramaphosa", ":19" and ":25" don't connect anywhere. Personally, I am against this.
 * Solution: Whoever added them has to clear up where they came from and what they were trying to cite
 * Problem2: ":9", ":0", ":7" connect to too many places. I don't mind it, because:
 * Solution: Leave it to me, I've done this before
 * Let's fix this! Horsesizedduck (talk) 16:59, 30 June 2021 (UTC)


 * sac2020-04-23ramaphosa is only used in the commented out Levels section, so it's not showing up as an error in the References section anymore. -- Jeandré, 2021-07-02t09:18z

Alright, after some work of mine that should possibly be revised by someone, only 2 undefined references seem to be present - ":19" and ":25"

as the one who introduced them, perhaps you know what they were meant to cite?

I've found these links for ":19" (I believe):
 * https://www.news24.com/news24/southafrica/news/covid-19-second-batch-of-johnson-johnson-vaccine-arrives-on-saa-flight-from-belgium-20210227 (This one is probably not the one, because it dates to February 27(!), but seems to contain a lot of the same words...);
 * https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/south-africa-tighten-covid-19-restrictions-14-days-2021-06-27/ (This one might be a more likely candidate)

Does this seem familiar? In any case, the error messages are gone but the tags are still there, just commented out; also, this isn't that big of a deal, no need to worry about it if you aren't understanding the situation. Horsesizedduck (talk) 14:13, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes, those are correct TapticInfo (talk) 16:52, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

Test positivity rate.
Hi. Would you know where data to plot the test positivity rate, from the beginning of the pandemic, can be found? Thank you in advance. Ear-phone (talk) 23:55, 13 September 2021 (UTC)


 * See if https://mediahack.co.za/datastories/coronavirus/data/ "Case data", "perc_positive" is what you're looking for. -- Jeandré, 2021-09-14t08:08z


 * You're the best . Thank you so much. That's it exactly. Ear-phone (talk) 08:56, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Figures captured for 23 November 2021.
Item 1: The increase in infections for the day does not correspond with the following reference: (https://www.nicd.ac.za/latest-confirmed-cases-of-covid-19-in-south-africa-23-november-2021/) Dirk J Loots (talk) 07:42, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Item 2: The daily values given for 23 November on the righthand side near the top of the page seems to be the values for 22 November listed in the table further down.

Dirk J Loots (talk) 07:31, 24 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Template:COVID-19 pandemic data/South Africa medical cases chart seems to be correct per, , and ; but the "Infobox outbreak" at the top of the page seems to be wrong because of the retrospective antigen test results added on 2021-11-23.
 * Whoever is updating the "Infobox outbreak" at the top of the page, please use the chart to calculate daily changes. -- Jeandré, 2021-11-25t07:08z

Move graph of active cases/capita to top of article?
I think it's the best way to indicate the state of the disease in South Africa. Should we put it at the top of the Infobox? -- Jeandré, 2020-12-17t08:25z


 * It would be much more useful to display the current mortality rate so that the reasons for ending restrictions become clear.
 * Omicron has lower mortality than the flu and 20 times less than Delta, this is the real news.
 * Idyllic press (talk) 07:51, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Timeline, move to a new page?
I think the Timeline section of the article has become too large and should now be moved to an article of its own.--Discott (talk) 10:19, 17 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Agreed. It's great as a timeline, but not summarized enough for a general encyclopedia article. -- Jeandré, 2022-01-20t09:02z


 * Great, then I will make the move. I suppose we can work on banging it into shape after the move. As they say, better to be bold. :-) --Discott (talk) 12:59, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Confirmed CoViD-19 deaths, daily or weekly on a Saturday?
The data for excess deaths is for weeks ending on Saturdays.

Unfortunately my sources for confirmed daily CoViD-19 deaths, stopped providing daily data for weekends:
 * https://www.nicd.ac.za/media/alerts/
 * https://sacoronavirus.co.za/category/daily-cases/
 * https://mediahack.co.za/datastories/coronavirus/data/ Case data

Anyone know of a good data source for daily or week-ending-on-a-Saturday confirmed deaths? -- Jeandré, 2022-07-12t07:12z


 * you could simply state that such detailed tracking has ended (at ). It's inevitable as the pandemic winds down that the level of attention it recieves will also be reduced. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 07:48, 12 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Yeah, seems like I'll have to stop updating the excess deaths chart, despite excess deaths still being above 2014-2019 averages, and excess deaths being about 10 times more than the officially confirmed number of CoViD-19 deaths. -- Jeandré, 2022-07-12t08:18z