Talk:Cadbury Castle, Somerset

Untitled
The South Cadbury article really needs to stay, but only for information concerning the village. All archaeological information concerning the hillfort site should be transferred here. Walgamanus 23:19, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

location: northeast of Yeovil?
Should the line "Cadbury Castle is located five miles north west of Yeovil . . ." be changed to Cadbury Castle is located five miles northeast of Yeovil. . . "? http://maps.google.com/ shows the 'Castle' northeast of Yeovil. Fdrcomehome (talk) 19:39, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I've just taken a look & you are quite right - probably my error. The great thing about wikipedia is you can go right ahead & correct it.&mdash; Rod talk 20:52, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Cave?
The Ganarew article says this: "The cave has a parallel with Cadbury Castle in that it is a cave within a hillfort. It was first inhabited in the Old Stone Age and is thus older than any other Arthurian site. ref:"Arthur's Cave near Little Doward, Ganarew", by Joe Boyles and Jake Livingston, at vortigernstudies.org.uk" So is there a cave here? That source says that it's open only on Christmas Eve. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:24, 4 April 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't have any books on Cadbury Castle but Heritage Gateway and Pastscape don't say anything about a cave, and a search of Jstor didn't turn anything up. Google books only has a snippet view and I can't see the context, but Alcock, Stevenson & Musson's Cadbury Castle, Somerset: the early medieval archaeology does contain at least one reference to a cave
 * "The presence of an Early Medieval settlement was originally deduced from the recognition of sherds of A- and B-ware among the finds from nineteenth-century excavations in a cave below the promontory."


 * As I can't see the text either side of that I can't be certain whether it refers to Cadbury Castle. But Barrett, Freeman & Woodward's Cadbury Castle, Somerset: the later prehistoric and early historic archaeology doesn't seem to mention any caves. Nev1 (talk) 19:00, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
 * My word that was quick. That's very considerate of you Nev1, to go to such trouble. I was tempted to trim the reference at Ganarew since Joe and Jake seem to be pretty "immersed" in myth amd legend. But their semi-blog site is intelligent and quite well-written. The fact that this site is limestone gave me second thoughts. Your snippet may be enough to provide a lead to more. Even to Christmas Eve opening, perhaps, which itself seems quite bizarre. Many thanks for the info, which I hope may prove useful here. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:05, 4 April 2012 (UTC)


 * This extract from Geoffrey Ashe's The Traveller's Guide To Arthurian Britain gives details of the Arthur myth and popular link with Cadbury Castle. The penultimate paragraph looks useful. Nev1 (talk) 20:14, 4 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, that must have been Chistmas Eve quite a long time ago! A very good article, though. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:20, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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C.H.Bothamley
I believe the first name of the photographer C.H.Bothamley is Charles H. Bothamley, based on an article on negative-making he contributed to the "Barnet Book of Photography" (1898).

The contents page also gives him post-nominals "F.C.S." and "F.I.C.", which I couldn't find at List of post-nominal letters (United Kingdom).

It seems his address was "The Yorkshire College, Leeds" when he submitted entries for exhibition at the Royal Photographic Society in 1887 and 1888.

Searching FreeBMD for deaths for "Bothamley" from 1930, a "Charles H. Bothamley" died at Lincoln in 1939, aged 79. This presumably matches "Charles Herbert Bothamley" whose birth was registered in Gainsborough in Q1 1860, and who married in Leeds in Q4 1891.

FreeBMD also finds some "Charles Henry Bothamley"s -- one died King's Lynn 1926, aged 67, presumably born Holbeach Q2 1858; one died 1935 in Chorley aged 67, presumably born Holbeach Q4 1867; also one born in Peterborough, Q2 1888 -- but presumably it is Charles Herbert who was the photographer.

There is also a "Cautley Holmes Bothamley" in Alumni Oxonienses who matriculated in 1878 and became a barrister; but who I couldn't find in the FreeBMD records.

I don't know if this is enough to establish a likely date of death for "C.H. Bothamley" -- the FreeBMD indexes are now generally well over 99% complete, at least for UK citizens in the UK, and whose birth marriage or death was registered.

A different line of thought would be that although "C.H. Bothamley" is identified as the author of the chapter in the VCH, the map appears to be professionally drawn, perhaps from the Ordnance Survey. If that is the case, it would more properly be considered an anonymous published work, which would now be out of copyright under the rules for anonymous or corporately authored works in the E.U.

It would be good to take this further, as I believe the map would definitely add to the article. Jheald (talk) 13:06, 14 August 2017 (UTC)


 * This report from the "Committee on Ancient Earthworks and Fortified Enclosures" (1911) identifies C.H. Bothamley as an F.I.C. (and also not an M.A. of Oxford or Cambridge), so presumably he is the photographer.


 * Is this enough to declare case closed, and the map out of copyright as either an anonymous work; or as the work of Charles Herbert Bothamley (d. 1939) ? Jheald (talk) 13:16, 14 August 2017 (UTC)


 * btw F.I.C. = Fellow of the Institute of Chemistry, I think; and F.C.S. = Fellow of the Chemical Society. Jheald (talk) 13:26, 14 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Googling "Charles Herbert Bothamley" confirms he is indeed the one:, ,


 * In 1901, in the census, he was living at 2 St Georges Terrace, Taunton, Somerset, England -- confirming the Somerset connection. Jheald (talk) 13:44, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for all this detective work. File:Cadbury Castle Somerset Map.jpg is on commons so presumably this information should be added somehow (at least the date of death and first names) to the record there along with his other plans (many of which are used on List of hill forts and ancient settlements in Somerset. If he did die in 1939 that would mean 78 years ago.&mdash; Rod talk 19:43, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Agree - nice work! Hchc2009 (talk) 19:51, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Camalet
I have removed the claim that "Camalet" was the historical name for Cadbury Castle. The claim is based on a book of dubious academic quality, published in 1839, in which the author is clearly under the impression that Arthurian legends were historical fact (see pages 46-47). It is clearly not safe to consider this book a reliable source. ŞůṜīΣĻ ¹98¹ Speak 14:00, 6 April 2018 (UTC)