Talk:Caesar salad/Archive 2

On variations and Alex vs. Cesar
At one point there was somewhat more discussion of the issue of who exactly created the salad, along with a reference to one of Diana Kennedy's books in which she attributes the salad to Alex, not Cesar. Now I am personally strongly in the Julia/Cesar camp, but Diana Kennedy is easily as unimpeachable a source as Julia, which leads me to believe that if there isn't an actual controversy over the issue, it at least seems to be the case that Alex and Cesar had two rather divergent recipes for the same salad. Now what do we do about this? Haikupoet (talk) 02:40, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

edit war over ancient Roman recipe
I would ask the user or users who keep adding this content to discuss here before doing it again:"Contrary to popular belief, Caesar Cardini did get his original recipe from an old Roman transcribed text that shared a popular victory dish that gave a seminal recipe to this modern salad." This has been removed from the article about ten times now, for the simple reason that it is a made up lie that is obvious enough to be reverted on sight. If you do not agree with that assessment, please provide reliable sources here on the talk page so that this information can be verified before being added back in to the article. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:14, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * This is pretty clearly the IP editing from an account. Hard not to see it as vandalism. I've warned them on their talk page as well. Dougweller (talk) 17:18, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

While not the originator of this line, it is clear this is common knowledge. This 'editing' war/vandalism initiated by wikipedia undergrad students (or administrators, whatever that means) needs to unplug their computer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by EdNerd (talk • contribs) 19:00, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Ceasar salad invented by Rome? That is funny. -Matt —Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.80.24.2 (talk) 17:56, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism
"Contrary to popular belief, Caesar Cardini did get his original recipe from an old Roman transcribed text that shared a popular victory dish that gave a seminal recipe to this modern salad."

^^ Anyone who adds that line to the article is just a vandal looking for trouble, you don't need sources to disprove it.Mod mmg (talk)

Spelling
Just about everyone agrees that Cesar Cardini's name is spelled Cesar. Yet most everyone spells his namesake salad as Caesar, as if he were a Roman emperor. (Perhaps it is this faction who is attempting to justify their error with a reference to ancient Roman recipes?) The AE (Æ) ligature in Latin which provides the long E sound (written with the A and E sharing a common backbone) does not translate to Italian or Spanish, even though these are known as "Latin" languages, and Mexicans, like Cesar, are referred to as "Latinos". Cesar, sometimes Cesare (pronounced like Desiree), shares roots with the Emperor, but not spelling. This same error has often been applied to the cesarean section, a surgical procedure for delivering a newborn. The medical profession has been diligent in pursuing the Caesarian section (always capitalized, by the way) error and in recent years, it rarely surfaces. The food preparation community has not been so diligent.

This has been a case of "I know something you don't", where people with a modicum of knowledge (how to correctly spell the Roman Caesar's name) are quick to correct anyone stupid enough to forget about A before E. Even in articles such as this Wiki piece, the author, faced with reference materials correctly spelling Cesar's name, changes it to Caesar in his text because he assumes the other authors got it wrong. After all, he KNOWS that Caesar is the correct spelling and has known so ever since his first gladiator movie. The Internet continually compounds the error with misspelt recipes, quotations and stories.

So let's get this straight, once and for all.

Tiberius and Julius CAESAR. Cardini and Chavez CESAR

I attempted to make the corrections to this text, but some lines, like the title piece and the picture captions, are not available to me. By the way, the references in the footnotes were already correct, although the author changed them when bringing them to the text. You would think, in a world that cannot spell to save it's life, and where silent letters and complex consonant blends are abandoned in favor of simple phonemic sound-outs (nife for knife, tek nolidgee for technology, howse for house) that something as obscure as a two thousand year old Roman, Latin vowel blend would never have survived to challenge the simpler and correct form, and yet. . .                                 ~Chris Zizzo 24.46.123.0 (talk) 20:03, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I was leaving a message on your talk at the same time you were writing this. Your spelling contradicts the sources used in the article. All content must be verified, and since we already have verification of the "Caesar" spelling from numerous sources, you're going to need to come up with some pretty compelling proof to the contrary if you want to change it. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:09, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Beeblebrox (talk) 21:27, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, we may have ourselves a problem here. Here is his find-a-grave page which spells is "Cesare" so now we have a third candidate. It's unlikely his name is spelled wrong on his grave. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:28, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * There's something that we need to be clear about here, whatever the proper spelling of Mr. Cardini's name might be, the spelling of the salad, and of the restaurant/hotel where it was invented is/was/will be "Caesar." Note the images.

Beeblebrox (talk) 21:33, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * File:Caesar's 'original' or 'hotel' restaurant - Tijuana c.1930.jpg
 * File:Caesar Cardini Cafe, Tijuana, on opening night c1935.jpg
 * After giving this some more thought, I think we should stick with the "Roman" spelling, not because it is actually his proper name but because it is the name he was known by in the public eye, as evidenced by the images linked above. As a parallel example, we don't have an article on Stanley Kirk Burrell, instead that name is a WP:REDIRECT to MC Hammer, the name the public knows him by. So, in this article, and indeed in Mr. Cardini's own article, we should use "Caesar" and all alternate spellings should be redirects. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:52, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Re: The Above
I beleive that Julius Caesar's full name was in fact Gaius Julius Caesar, not just Julius Caesar. Mod mmg (talk)
 * Since he had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with this salad that's not really relevant here. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:48, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Mexico?
A cookbook I have says it originated in California. jc iindyysgvxc  (my contributions) 02:27, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Sort of, Tijuana is in Baja California, which is part of Mexico. Beeblebrox (talk) 03:06, 14 January 2010 (UTC)