Talk:Café

What is a café?
Dang, this is a mess for something so short! This seems a lot more like a description of what I (a transplanted New Yorker living in Seattle) would call a "coffeehouse" than a "caf&eacute;". In Connecticutt, a "caf&eacute;" is basically a bar or tavern. In the UK (and, I believe, Australia) a "cafe" (without the accent and with a silent "e") is what we in New york call a "greasy spoon."


 * I'm from Connecticutt [sic] originally, and a café is a café is a café, just like in NYS or NYC (nicely vague there BTW, sir). And coffee is, as expected, the "main event".


 * Incidentally, some of the writing here seems wholly ignorant of common American usage of the term. In the US, the meaning of café is wholly analogous to the continental term, i.e. café=coffee house.  It was different in the 1970s–when café meant a Chock full o'Nuts, for example—but that is massively outdated, now.
 * Unother (talk) 20:23, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

The only reason I'm getting into this at all is that I'm interested in writing about the coffeehouse culture that evolved out of the Italian espresso joints of NY and SF in the Beat era and has resulted in both a continuing, rather similar coffeehouse culture and a slicked-up commercialized equivalent epitomized by Starbucks.
 * Frankly the "NY and SF Beat era" take is also, IMHO, misinformed. Modern café culture in the US is, like it or not, intimately bound up with Starbucks (and Peet's and Coffee Bean et al.; anyone who attempts to separate American Culture from American Commerce is nicely idealistic but woefully prone to mythologizing).  But this culture came from the Pacific coast first and moved to the East Coast in the 1990s.  There are far more independent coffeehouses/cafés on the Pacific coast than the Atlantic coast.


 * And finally, for reference, if—in 1990–you had wanted an Espresso on the East Coast then you would have been confined mostly to going to an Italian neighborhood in a Northeastern city.
 * Unother (talk) 20:23, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Do people really think the definition of café here is right? I don't want to mess with it if I'm in a minority. Jmabel 02:47, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC)


 * Quite. Where is the List of Cafés?  And I'll have to correct you one one thing only: here in Australia a café is a coffeehouse, is spelt with the accent and the 'e' is pronounced.  As far as I know, a 'greasy spoon' is a caff in London, and not at all like the nice places to sit and read and chat. —Sam Wilson (Australia) 04:39, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * In Eric Bogle's song "I Hate Wogs", in the persona of a racist Australian, he refers in passing to a "Chinese caff". Admittedly, he's a transplanted Scotsman, but I would have thought he'd lived in Oz long enough to get it right. Oh, well. - Jmabel | Talk 09:00, 12 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Café is the correct spelling and often the only spelling recognised by dictionaries. The accent is needed otherwise the word is just "Kay-f" not "Kaf-ay". I think the only reason for the 'Cafe' spelling are the recent trends in being lazy with spelling (and in part because of the difficulties computers had in supporting accents). I think the article should be located at Café with Cafe as a redirect. Kyle sb 06:39, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with the redirect, and the article really needs some revision and added material. Photos, anyone?  Some clarifications of what a café is in different regions seems also to be neccessary — we're not all in agreement I think!  :-)  —Sam Wilson (Australia) 00:52, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I've done the redirect, and added a bit; needs more. —Sam Wilson (Australia) 01:34, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It's hardly a "recent trend in being lazy with spelling" or a result of computers. Since accents are uncommon in English, dropping them in loanwords is a longstanding part of the anglicisation of loanwords. For example, the French à propos, once written as such in English, is now universally written apropos.  Similar examples that have completed or nearly completed the accent-removal process include role (formerly rôle), smorgasbord (formerly smörgåsbord), and elite (formerly élite).  Café is midway through the process, with both forms seeing wide use. --Delirium 21:09, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with you. And Kyle sb's comments about "lazy spelling" and "The accent is needed otherwise the word is just "Kay-f" not "Kaf-ay" are way off the mark.  It is just normal anglicization.  There is nothing wrong with using the English alphabet when writing in English.  It isn't an error; it isn't laziness.  We have every bit as much right to use our own alphabet as anyone else does.  Gene Nygaard (talk) 06:21, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Origins
No offence meant to 81.215.118.78, the author of the following paragraph, but I've removed it to here pending referencing and editing. Can anyone oblige? (I'll do it myself in a day or twelve if no-one else steps up.)


 * "But the origin of cafes are appeared in Istanbul at Ottoman Era in 1554. Hundreds of them was opened continiously. Most of them are a social club statues. Every guild was own cafe. And those names was 'yenichery cafe, 'sailors cafe', 'meddah(stand-up comadians) cafe, 'karagoz(shadow theatre) cafe'... etc. And specially public cafes turn on a 'singing cafe' at every nights."

—Sam Wilson (Australia) 09:57, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Re cafés being "more commonly known as cafeterias"
Is this true in UK and/or Commonwealth usage? This is definitely not true in U.S. usage. Here, the two words have different connotations. Most people use the word "cafeteria" to refer to a rather utility-grade (if you will) place to get some (utility-grade) food, such as the large room where schoolkids eat, or a restaurant that is set up in similar fashion (sometimes referred to as a "public cafeteria"; almost extinct nowadays). In the U.S., a stylish coffeeshop with good coffee and baked goods would almost never be called a "cafeteria", except as a rather idiolectic or ecolectic usage.

Obviously these words (café, cafeteria, coffeeshop) are used slightly differently in different English-speaking regions. The article ought to state this explicitly and neutrally, and briefly describe the usages in each region, e.g., Britain, Canada, Australia, U.S., etc. Right now I think people in each region have been overwriting each others' usages with a "that's incorrect!" kind of slant. We need to realize that there are regional differences, and list them.

— Lumbercutter 18:15, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Suggest merging this article into coffeehouse
Given that this article contains little content (most of it is etymology of the word), I suggest merging this article into coffeehouse. There is no real difference between a café and a coffeehouse, at least in my part of the English-speaking world. Comments? hajhouse 00:01, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I strongly agree with this proposal. I came here looking for the content that I ended up finding on the page coffeehouse; this page has "coffee shop" in bold and claims that that's distinct from "coffeehouse", but Coffee shop (disambiguation) includes entries for both "coffee shop" and "coffee house". Combine the two and have done with it. --AlexChurchill 23:26, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * "...but Coffee shop (disambiguation) includes entries for both "coffee shop" and "coffee house"." - It does? I don't see it.  Besides, what does that have to do with a café, or the fact cafés and coffee shops are different concepts? These should remain separate articles. Torc2 00:27, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That term is used in very few countries, the articles should remain separate. The attempts to mutineer this article to become a discussion purely of US cafés has already made it bad enough. Owen214 (talk) 14:34, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

The European meaning of café?
I am a European myself, and I am quite sure that nowhere in Europe people think of a café as a place to drink coffee and eat cake or a sandwhich. Although most European cafés do serve coffee, and sometimes also sandwiches and small meals, that is not what we think of when we talk about café. When we say café, we think of beer, wine or liquor. A café is a place where we go to drink alcohol. Much like a pub in Brittain, or a bar in the US. A place where you dink coffee may be called different names in different countries, in different regions even. Sometimes it's called a coffeeshop or coffeebar, sometimes it's called a snackbar. But then, in some European countries a snackbar is a fastfood restaurant. But a café is always a place where alcohol is served. Cfdemoor (talk) 16:06, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Except in Britain. Where a café would very rarely be serving alcohol. If you exclude Britain from your "in Europe" statement, no argument here. Arrrgh, forgot to sign in. 19:26, 5 July 2010 (UTC)95.59.80.190 (talk) AntiSceptic

Korean Cafe
If the "Korean Cafe" section is to remain, it needs a tremendous amount of rewriting. It has grammar issues and has the tone of a promo piece. Also, there is no need to list every cafe in Korea and mention what's on their menu (note, I'm being partially sarcastic here). — al-Shimoni  (talk) 05:24, 17 July 2011 (UTC)