Talk:Café 't Mandje

Notability?
Is the bar itself notable? Bet van Beeren seems to have quite a few Google book hits, but the bar itself is pretty sparse and seems to only be notable in reference to her. Thoughts? -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 20:32, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, it is one of the most famous bars in Amsterdam. It was the first gay bar in the Netherlands. Isn't that enough? Vanjagenije (talk) 03:39, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Depends - was it really? The source provided says it was "the first bar in Amsterdam where people could be openly gay," and goes on to discuss whether or not it could be considered "the first gay bar in Amsterdam."  Furthermore, the lack of reliable sources to back up it's notability makes me question the article belonging in the encyclopedia. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 18:48, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I guess there wouldn't be a replica of the café in the Amsterdams Historisch Museum if it wasn't important. Vanjagenije (talk) 19:54, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Hm - so is that in Wikipedia's notability guidelines? -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 22:50, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I removed the tag; a cafe that is worthy of being displayed in the Amsterdam History Museum must be notable for Amsterdam's history. I added a link to the museum's website where the interior can be viewed. Preslav (talk) 11:37, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

The bar is also one of the "windows" of the "Canon of Amsterdam". The bar and its famous first owner Bet van Beeren has become a symbol of tolerance in Amsterdam over the ages. Besides being gay in an era in which this was not accepted she was an advocate of personal freedom. She has some remarkable feats to her name during the second world war. She was involved in the foundation of the COC Amsterdam. Check out the website of Café 't Mandje for the whole story. As to the fact that it is not certain that Café 't Mandje is the first gay bar in Amsterdam, Holland or even the world: indeed there is no evidency of older bars. Not proven even in Berlin - where the oldest gay bar is "around 1920". This shouldn't be a contest for the predicate oldest gay bar. The significance and symbolism of the place are far more important. Even today we are proud to say that we welcome everyone. It was never a strictly gay bar. That's the beauty of it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tmandje (talk • contribs) 08:30, 27 September 2010 (UTC)