Talk:Caledonia

Poetic Usage Examples
The article notes that the name is often used "poetically", as confirmed by its referenced source and by Webster's New World Dictionary 1986, but I do not know personally of any examples of poetic usage, and this was mainly the information I was looking for in the article. 216.115.11.39 (talk) 00:01, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Map
A map would be nice. The Jade Knight 08:48, 15 February 2006 (UTC)


 * But probably 90% guesswork. On the OS map of Ancient Britain, Caledonii is indeed marked, but apart from the fact that Dunkeld is plausibly derived from their name, I don't think anyone knows exactly where the Caledonians and Caledonia were in relation to other tribes or confederations. Atholl, or maybe just northern Perthshire, are reasonable guesses. Angus McLellan 19:16, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Celtic Women song
There is also a song named Caledonia by Celtic Women 70.121.244.60 (talk) 20:26, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well sort of. They sang it but it's actually the Dougie MacLean song mentioned in the article. Quite a few people have covered it. -- Derek Ross | Talk'' 17:54, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Celtic Thunder covered it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0KZjmiL7xs&feature=related -John in Cinci IP —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.83.23.189 (talk) 05:40, 23 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, as I said above, them and a bunch of other people. Read the Caledonia (song) article if you want to find out who they all were. -- Derek Ross | Talk'' 07:28, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Confusion
Is this really just about "Caledonia as a name for Scotland" because it seems like it's also part disambiguation page? I think someone might have muddled up the pages. I'm going to move all of these links over to the disambig. page and delete them from this page.--France3470 01:07, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Scoti
The Scoti came from Spain, not ireland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.0.200.171 (talk) 17:43, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Not hardly. See Scoti. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 20:03, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * "Scoti" is term the Romans originally used for Gaelic conducting raids on Roman Britain; later the term applied to all the peoples living in present-day Scotland after the Gaels eventually began settling there. Long before this period, early adoption of Celtic culture in Irish populations appeared and may have originally arisen out of interactions and or immigrations between Celtic peoples in Iberia or Britain. (See Celtiberian_language and Celtic_settlement_of_Great_Britain_and_Ireland.) Assuming this is what the original comment meant to address, then in a historical sense the comment is correct, however only indirectly; it would be at best misleading to state that "the Scoti are from Spain," since the Romans specifically applied the term to peoples coming from Ireland. — Dan (talk) 13:21, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Okay, where's the evidence for widespread Gaelic migration from Ireland to Scotland? Where's the evidence for Irish Gaelic colonization/conquest of Scotland? Any other Brittonic speaking parts of Scotland the Gaels did conquer (such as Strathclyde) still retain substantial Brittonic placenames, whereas Pictish areas are overwhelmingly Goidelic in root. Norse areas reclaimed by Gaels centuries later also retain Norse names. There's absolutely no evidence to suggest that north of Antonine Wall Scotland was not always predominantly Gaelic speaking.
 * Rubbish. This is not the place for your WP:FRINGE.50.111.58.135 (talk) 11:54, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Song
Does anyone know the relevance to the Celtic Woman song Caledonia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.223.7.186 (talk) 20:41, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * See above, they covered the Dougie MacLean song. FlagSteward (talk) 14:11, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 10:43, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Arfur's Seat
The Historia Brittonum reference to Coit Celadon looks well enough sourced, but it's pure original research and unrelated speculation to say "Traces of such mythology have endured until today in Midlothian: near the city centre of Edinburgh stands an old volcanic mountain called Arthur's Seat." A good source is needed to show any connection between that and Caledonia. . dave souza, talk 20:04, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Removed First/Oldest Recorded Name
Hello, I added a sentence to the opening paragraph making note of the fact that Caledonia was the first and oldest recorded name for the area that would become Scotland. Any reason why this was removed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.4.16.225 (talk) 20:27, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

I'm going to add it again, your reason for undoing the edit was "source?". Not a single statement in the opening paragraph is sourced. Do you know of another recorded name used for the area that would become Scotland that is older than Caledonia? Are you also going to deny that Calgacus was the first recorded person from the area that would become Scotland in history? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.4.16.225 (talk) 20:31, 10 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Very, very strange, I never saw these talk page edits on my watchlist. Sorry about that, never knew you wrote anything. As for the lead, material is not required to be cited in the lead if it is cited elsewhere in the body. Further, nothing should be added that is unsourced regardless of what else is already in the article, and the onus is on the original editor to back their edits, not all the other editors. If you can source your statement, then do so. — Huntster (t @ c) 01:03, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Umm, yeah I get you but it's kind of common sense dude. Written history begins in Scotland with Roman contact/invasion. There is no recorded history before this point(this is why we don't, for example, know definitively, even if we can assume and estimate, what the Pictish language was like). It sort of is sourced through the rest of the article and their sources. It would be like me adding a sentence about Caledonia starting with a 'C' and you asking me to cite my sources.

There is no written history until Romans show up, when they show up they call the area Caledonia and the inhabitants Caledonians. How can it be anything other than the first and oldest recorded name for the area and its people? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.4.16.225 (talk) 02:08, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

I would totally 100% get you if this was some dubious or controversial statement but its pretty common knowledge and is mentioned in other articles that we have no idea what the inhabitants of Caledonia/Scotland called themselves and their land before the Romans showed up and named them what they did. In fact even hundreds of years after Roman collapse and withdrawal we STILL do not really know what the descendants of the Caledonians, the Picts, called themselves and their land, we can only estimate and guess that perhaps it was always just Alba, which is likely derived from the term Albion anyway. We only know Brittonic used the term Albion due to Greeks/Romans recording it.

Caledonia was an artificial border created by Rome, and they deemed the are Caledonia and the inhabitants Caledonians. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.4.16.225 (talk) 02:19, 11 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Such a claim isn't obvious to the level of the sky is blue, so it needs a verifiable, published source to remain in the article. - BilCat (talk) 23:34, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

How is it not as obvious as this if written/record history of the region BEGINS with Roman interaction/occupation? This is not disputable, so evidently Caledonia/Caledonians would be the first recorded name for the area and its inhabitants. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.4.16.225 (talk) 00:28, 12 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Because another name may have been recorded by the Romans as being used earlier, regardless of what the Romans called it. - BilCat (talk) 00:39, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Yes but it wasn't, is the point. Okay man look going by your same logic/standards I have removed this from the opening section: ", comparable with Hibernia for Ireland and Cambria for Wales.". This is unsourced and not mentioned elsehwere in the article so... we're gonna need a source for that statement too, I assume. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.4.16.225 (talk) 21:10, 12 March 2019 (UTC)