Talk:Camael

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 January 2019 and 6 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): CharlottePovey, Mmcdade57.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 16:35, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Redirection and other matters
It is unfathomable to me why Chamuel redirects here instead of the other way around, especially since it's evident you replaced the entire content of that page with the redirect. The new-agey and esoteric stuff is at least as relevant as the stub that replaced it since it's fairly common usage -- perhaps the most common. But why on earth make the Latinized version of the name the main article? Transliterated more directly from the Hebrew it's "Chamuel". That should have been left as the main title.

We have the same thing here as at Haniel (archangel) with the References section, with a large number of works cited that weren't actually used. And again as at Haniel, there's this assertion of Christian veneration in the passive voice. Most sources are fairly clear that the Catholics have no official cult of any archangels but Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael, and I know that Orthodox Christianity doesn't venerate this archangel either. Who associates this archangel with Christianity? If you can't answer that question, please don't throw this "Judaeo-Christian" label around, since it can't be justified. TCC (talk) (contribs) 19:55, 22 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree, see edithistories. Zanaq 23:30, 22 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Satanael's change from "References" to "Further reading" was based on my complaint at Haniel (archangel) that such a short stub couldn't possibly be based on such a long list of sources. He(?) admitted that he actually has only one of those books and that the article was in fact not based on all of them.


 * By the way, why are these articles Haniel (archangel) and Camael (archangel) instead of just Hamiel and Camael? There's no reason for the longer title that I can see. TCC (talk) (contribs) 09:15, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Chamuel is one of the two chiefs of the Dominions, along with Zadkiel. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.107.189.163 (talk • contribs) 07:05, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 03:29, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

The meaning of the name
If Camael is supposed to mean "who sees God" then the Aramaic/Hebrew should read Haziel or Chaziel (from חזא, "haza"). I am wondering whether there is a different etymology to the name. Eliyyahu (talk) 19:01, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Material from Dutch source
I could only find this in dutch. I will start translating this right away and post the translated version seperate from dutch explanation within two weeks. Today: 03-27-2011 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.251.142.78 (talk • contribs) (Material removed for potential copyright reasons)
 * What is the source of that information you posted? Ian.thomson (talk) 17:46, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Garden of Eden Link
I just thought this was worth pointing out: the link that says "Garden of Eden" redirects to a page about saki --184.79.227.97 (talk) 18:33, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Camael as a demon
Gustav Davidson claims in his Dictionary of Angels that Camael was expelled from heaven and now is a Count Palatine in hell, who appears in the shape of a leopard. Anyone has some idea about the source of that claim? Davidson provides none. I would add this info to the article, but not if the original source can't be found. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.57.61.212 (talk) 21:07, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Sources to establish common name

 * Tertiary sources:


 * Gustav Davidson, Dictionary of Angels, Facts on File, p. 80, Camael (Camiel, Camiul, Chamuel, Kemuel, Khamael, Camniel, Cancel–"He who sees God")
 * Rosemary Ellen Guiley, Encyclopedia of Angels, Simon & Schuster, p. 75, Camael (Camiel, Camiul, Chamuel, Kemuel, Khamael, Camniel, Cancel)
 * Vinita Wright, A Catalogue of Angels, the Heavenly, the Fallen, and the Holy Ones Among Us, Paraclete Press, p. 141, Chamuel [Christianity]: sometimes spelled Camael;

These are tertiary sources, so the matter should be settled. But for completeness sake, here's a few non-tertiary sources:


 * Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa, Three Books of Occult Philosophy, Book two, Chapter 10, Camael. This could be considered both a primary source on Agrippa and a secondary source on magical works of that era.  This is carried over in Francis Barret's The Magus
 * Johann Baptist Grossschedel, Calendarium Naturale Magicum Perpetuum, (entry on the powers of Mars), Camael.
 * Trithemius, Steganographia, Camuel
 * SEMIPHORAS and SCHEMHAMPHORAS in The Sixth and Seventh Books of Moses, entry on "ELOHIM GIBOR", Camael.
 * Appendix to the Liber Juratus Honorii, Camael
 * Ars Notoria, Camael
 * The Mathers version of the Key of Solomon does note Khamael, but that version is as sloppy as it is popular.

Ian.thomson (talk) 08:21, 17 May 2017 (UTC)