Talk:Cambric

ugh
This is a terrible page. WTF is chambray? Shouldn't the opening paragraph tell me that? I know it's a fabric, but what is it? Ridiculous.

Is Batiste the same? Xx236 10:43, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
 * See below.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 10:59, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Cambric shirt
Isn't a Cambric shirt something you get buried in? linas 05:36, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Cambric material
Cambric is much older than Monsieur Cambrai and therefore could not have been invented by him - this derivation must therefore be considered bogus.

The word appears as "cambre" in the online Anglo-Norman Dictionary with several meanings:

♦ hemp ♦ linen ♦ cambric (linen cloth)

The Anglo-Norman dictionary includes citations for its use in literature with these specific meanings, dating from the 12th century onwards. Cambre is derived from the town of Cambrai in France which was a main centre of production ('Webster's Collegiate Dictionary 1928 edition'). As with many terms for fabric, its meaning has changed over the centuries and the term later came to be applied to cotton cloth, which was an extremely rare commodity in the 12th century.

Ranulfus 09:52, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Monsieur Cambrai
Ranulfus, I think the "Jean-Baptiste Cambrai" is from a botched edit from November 14, 2005 (replacing "first used in Cambrai"). Whoever put that in must've meant Jean-Baptiste something-or-other in Cambrai, France.

(Kejo13 (talk) 19:36, 15 January 2008 (UTC))
 * According to the French article his name is Baptiste Cambray, and he was born near Cambrai. Yves-Laurent (talk) 06:28, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Old hoax. RacconishTk 20:08, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Batiste
The French WP article «Batiste» treats batiste and cambric as synonyms. Therefore the two English articles on these topics should probably be merged.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 10:58, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I suggest merging Cambric into Batiste as Batiste is more used than Cambric. Some refs [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ARacconish&diff=575269409&oldid=575260848 here]. Cheers, &mdash;&thinsp;Racconish&thinsp;Tk 11:40, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * For further discussion see here. The consensus is to keep the two articles separate.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 08:22, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The following text is a copy take from the history of the discussion here ...

Editing the article "Batiste" was what led me to the Charvet article as well. There is so much information on the same topic in the Cambric article that a merge may be appropriate.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 07:42, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * There is a little caveat : cambric is always linen, while batiste - specially in modern usage - is not. Cheers, &mdash;&thinsp;Racconish&thinsp;Tk 07:48, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * As there is this difference the best thing would be to copy what is relevant to "batiste" from the "cambric" article so that "batiste" contains information on the usage before 1898.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 08:26, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * It seems I was wrong : neither name implies linen and batiste is always expected to be a fine yarn, althouh the AF encyclopedia motes, p. 254, it has been stated "the greatest thread [of cambric] was not even the size of the smallest hair". It seems I was wrong : neither name implies linen and batiste is always expected to be a fine yarn. I suggest merging cambric into batiste. Cheers, &mdash;&thinsp;Racconish&thinsp;Tk 10:00, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * For the time being I have copied part of the cambric article into batiste. I would rather not do any more on the batiste / cambric articles as textiles and fashion are outside the fields which I am used to working with. My French is rather poor nowadays. Your opinion indicates adding the merge tag to "batiste" again.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 10:44, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * As the French WP article "Batiste" refers to "cambric as the English word for batiste I am in doubt which way it should go. Maybe another member of the Textile Arts wikiproject will express an opinion.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 13:08, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I understand your concern and have asked PKM's opinion. My take is cambric is older than batiste in English, but implies only a geographic origin from Cambrai. Cheers, &mdash;&thinsp;Racconish&thinsp;Tk 16:06, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

This one is tricky. "Cambric" in English goes back to 1530 (as "cameryk", later also "cambric", "cammeraige", "camroche", etc.). The OED says that "batiste" is the French word for "cambric" but is used in English for a "fine, light fabric of similar texture, but differently finished, and made of cotton as well as of linen," with the first citation (as "baptist") in 1697.

So using the French "batiste" as a source for English "cambric" seems right. My first reaction is to keep the two articles separate in EN Wikipedia, and make the distinction. I'd love to do some digging on that concept "differently finished" but I'm not sure I own a reference that specific. - PKM (talk) 16:48, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with PKM here. (I saw the mention on her talk page and this interested me so I'm here). I also share PKM's first reaction in that the two articles should be kept separate, with a distinction made, as they are two distinct fabrics, and are not interchangeable terms for the same textile. Mabalu (talk) 17:18, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanls PKM and Mabalu. I am also fine with that. The second reference I quoted above, the AF Encyclopedia, gives some precisions on the finishing. I guess it implied calendering, which somehow hardens the finish, while batiste is meant to be softer. Cheers, &mdash;&thinsp;Racconish&thinsp;Tk 18:43, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

October 2013
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 * ✅ &mdash;&thinsp;Racconish&thinsp;Tk 13:39, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

cambric tea
A drink for children, made of hot water, milk, sugar, and usually a small amount of tea. [So called because it is thin and white like cambric. ... Earliest reference I could find is from 1882's 'Ting-a-ling', but usage persists to the present, mostly in genre/period fiction. 69.125.59.43 (talk) 04:22, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

To add to article
To add to this article: a photo showing a Chambray shirt. 76.190.213.189 (talk) 01:26, 15 January 2023 (UTC)