Talk:Camel (band)/Archive 1

Untitled
can someone upload an image of the band?

I trust that suits - although it might be a bit too large - perhaps someone can help with that --KevinALewis 16:15, 16 November 2005 (GMT)

Smoking
Hi:

The article states that Paul Gallico loathed smoking, hence the modification of the Snow Goose title, but the snap of Gallico http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Gallico in the Wiki article shows him with a pipe. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.157.182.189 (talk) 20:29, 1 January 2007 (UTC).

So it does! I note the photograph of Gallico is dated 1937 so I can only think that by the time Camel released their album 38 years later, his opinion of smoking had changed. 80.47.106.120 00:23, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes this is true, he was a hater of the weed, and so wouldn't allow his work 'The Snow Goose' to be associated with the band because he believed they were advocating smoking. His legal team threatened action and eventually after talks Camel changed it to music 'inspired by', you can't sue someone for being inspired. Taken from the DVD, Camel - Curriculum Vitae. Sandra Richards, Prog fan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.151.93.48 (talk) 10:40, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

David Paton
In the "Line-ups timeline" section, it says that David Paton was in the band until 1983. However, he also played and sang on several songs in the Stationary Traveler album (see album page), which was released in 1984.

In addition, he played and sang on one or two songs on the "Dust & Dreams" and "Harbour of Tears" albums (although I don't know if this should count as being in the band).

I'm not sure how to update the timeline, so if someone knows it would be great. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.139.148.235 (talk) 07:54, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Jimmy Hastings
I don't think that Jimmy Hastings played flute on "Mirage". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.232.70.193 (talk) 11:31, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * He is not credited in the album, that's for sure. I'll remove him until someone comes up with a creditable source.--Gorpik (talk) 17:13, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

I have a press cutting which says that Jimmy Hastings played flute on 'The Procession' from 'Mirage', but was not credited. As soon as I locate it, I'll re-instate the entry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pbeas (talk • contribs) 11:33, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Maybe there's a confusion with a lineup called "Mirage" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirage_%28band%29), in which Hastings played, together with other Camel & Caravan personnel. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.179.118.150 (talk) 13:02, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Canterbury Scene?
Does anyone know for a fact that Camel is/was part of the Canterbury scene? If not, no mention should be made of it. C1k3 (talk) 06:01, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * That is curious. They are certainly listed within the article about the Canterbury scene.  Three former members of Camel have also been members of leading Canterbury bands, Richard Sinclair, Dave Sinclair and Andy Ward.  But All Music does not include Camel amongst the top Canterbury sound bands.  The Canterbury sound is an alternate title to the article and perhaps since the band itself is not from Canterbury, their sound puts them squarely in the associated column. Trackinfo (talk) 07:22, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Camel were formed in Guildford, Surrey, 71 miles (114km) from Canterbury. I followed the British music press closely in the 1970s and there was never a mention of them being part of the Canterbury Scene until Richard Sinclair joined in 1977, by which time Camel had already been in existence for over 5 years. In my opinion this doesn't qualify them as being an "important group in the Canterbury Scene" as described in the introduction paragraph, although Sinclair undoubtably brought a Canterbury component into the band with his compositions during his brief, two album stay. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pbeas (talk • contribs) 11:28, 22 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Camel have been quite closely related to Caravan at various times during their histories, with members collaborating and even, in the case of Richard Sinclair, belonging to both bands at different times. But I cannot find any real relation between Camel and the rest of the Canterbury scene.--Gorpik (talk) 16:45, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Timeline
This article says that Camel began in 1971, while their website states it was 1964. Also it says that Camel is "presently active", while the website states: "Camel's 2003 Farewell Tour has concluded. No performances are scheduled for the forseeable future." Someone should sort this out. Joefromrandb (talk) 07:30, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
 * In fact, Camel's website states that The embryonic origin of CAMEL was conceived circa 1964, but it also says that it was not Camel until 1971 (CAMEL played their first gig at Waltham Forest Technical College supporting Wishbone Ash on 4th Dec 1971). I think the changes you've made to the article are correct, though.--Gorpik (talk) 10:48, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for pointing that out. I should have read it more carefully. Joefromrandb (talk) 17:00, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Current Lineup
The article has been modified after the Camel website announced that an album and tour were in the works. Nevertheless, as far as I know, the lineup is unknown. Has anyone seen any creditable source saying that the Farewell Tour lineup (Latimer / Bass / Scherpenzeel / Clement) is still active? Otherwise, I will modify the mentions to "current lineup" in the article accordingly.--Gorpik (talk) 16:28, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Support. I have not seen any source saying that the Farewell Tour lineup is still active. I believe you should modify the article. --Cdl obelix (talk) 09:05, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * There seems to be a lot of speculation, I've even seen some populate Camel wikipedia articles The Snow Goose (album) adds an unsourced addition of Jan Schelhaas.  camelproductions.com seems to be the definitive band information site.  They are remarkably ambiguous, only mentioning Andrew's activities.  They have named the tour, facetiously, the "Retirement Sucks Tour."  So we don't know anything more than that.  THEY might not know who they can put together.  In a decade of inactivity, musicians do take on other activities and responsibilities.  Who can he line up?  Can he get Bass back from Indonesia.  Can he separate LeBlanc (you missed him above) from his current project?  Will he keep the tour in Europe to keep Scherpenzeel?  There is a lot of behind the scene stuff that has to go on.  WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING.  We shouldn't report what we don't know.  Camel is what it last was, until we have a source to report something different. Trackinfo (talk) 09:50, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Convinced. So we leave it as is and see what happens. --Cdl obelix (talk) 14:22, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I've seen several usually-reliable webpages mentioning a Camel press release, according to which the lineup for the upcoming tour is Latimer/Bass/Leblanc/Clement + special guest Schelhaas. Nevertheless, it is true that the Camel Productions website does not mention that and it is difficult to source correctly. I agree to leave things as they are in the article and wait for the tour to happen.--Gorpik (talk) 10:05, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Now Jason Hart has been added to the band member list. From the announcements in Camel's web, it looks like Jason Hart has been hired just for the upcoming tour. So he should not be listed as a member, but as a touring musician. Any views on this?--Gorpik (talk) 14:39, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
 * This which has been repeated on other sites. And its on the Camel facebook  Nothing gives any sort of ranking or status, just confirms that he is there on the tour, actually playing on stage with Camel. Trackinfo (talk) 17:29, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
 * From the Camel website announcement I collect that Hart has been hired as a replacement for Jan Schelhaas due to schedule conflicts on Schelhaas's side for this tour. This would make Hart a touring musician. But OK, let's leave things as they are and wait for future developments.--Gorpik (talk) 07:31, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Timeline replaced by table of lineups
I removed the timeline and replaced it with a table of lineups. I think it gives a better overview. If there are any objections or improvements to be made, just let me know.--Cdl obelix (talk) 14:26, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Support. I think the table is much clearer.--Gorpik (talk) 10:05, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Could I suggest getting hold of the Pete Frame family tree that came out in one of the 80s tour programs? What would be really nice would be to get someone to carry it on. It linked Camel with Caravan (probably inevitably) and quite a few other contemporary line-ups. The thing about the family trees is that they also allow people to realise (and possibly get into) other bands with a similar outlook...N1geD (talk) 19:40, 28 July 2013 (UTC)NigeDN1geD (talk) 19:40, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Found it - http://www.magenta.co.il/camel/notes/notes-body.htm N1geD (talk) 19:45, 28 July 2013 (UTC)NigeDN1geD (talk) 19:45, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

The Snow Goose re-recording in the discography
Right now, the re-recording of The Snow Goose appears in the discography as a note beside the original. In my opinion (it wasn't me who put it this way), this is correct, as it was announced in the official site as just a re-recording, not a bona fide new record. But time and again this is edited back and forth. Let's settle the issue here and reach a consensus instead of continuing with the edit war.--Gorpik (talk) 15:45, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

I don't agree. Just because an album has been re-recorded, doesn't mean it has been released. In this case the re-recorded version has been released as a physical (CD) album and extended with new parts, so in my opinion is a bona fide new record. Following your logic, the various remakes of 'Tubular Bells' wouldn't be classed as separate albums in their own right.

On a separate issue, Camel have undersold themselves with the 2013 Snow Goose release. Nowhere on the cover/sleeve/spine/disk or credits does it indicate that this is a new version or even mention 2013. Also, the album is called 'The Snow Goose' - the same as the original (unless you go down the 'music inspired by' route). Consequently a casual browser coming across the new re-recorded CD, could easily be mistaken in thinking that this is the original 1975 version simply in a new sleeve. Pbeas (talk) 17:44, 24 February 2014 (UTC)


 * I think it is significant to cover the new "album" in whatever modern form of release they choose to use. The significant 38 year time gap since the original recording, the continuity of just one member between both recordings, the whole tour based on promoting the album are among notable features and most important, ANY significant activity after the extended medical hiatus are all factors.  Perhaps you can be critical of every re-release of Tubular Bells, but certainly every fresh recording deserves coverage there. Trackinfo (talk) 17:40, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Doug Ferguson
Didn't he leave to take up professional football? I vaguely recall a reference to this on an album sleeve, which wasn't duplicated on the CD cover. Couldn't immediately find any online reference to this but perhaps somebody more interested in football can back me up?

(85.139.95.95 (talk) 01:07, 24 May 2015 (UTC)).

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20150707001327/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9S7g3C8WyQ to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9S7g3C8WyQ

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 * Archived sources unavailable, removed.--Gorpik (talk) 07:21, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Changes reverted since both original links were working just fine.--Gorpik (talk) 11:59, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Grammar
"Camel are an..." Are you kidding me?
 * No. Joefromrandb (talk) 06:55, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
 * You can check MOS:ENGVAR.--Gorpik (talk) 12:07, 4 May 2017 (UTC)