Talk:Camp Quest

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The topic looks legitimate, but the bulk of the text appears to have been excerpted from a "forthcoming book". Not sure if this constitutes copyright violation. I've added the NPOV-check tag as the text is clearly written by an advocate. --The Famous Movie Director 06:45, 27 October 2005 (UTC)


 * The page content looks entirely factual to me in its current state. If you still disagree, justify your stance - otherwise the NPOV-check tag should be removed. Kevo Bravo (talk) 20:58, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

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Hi. "forthcoming book" is mine. Should be at the publisher by late December.

All statements are factual, supported by external source material (links provided), and proprietary source material and personal experience. Perhaps what you object to is tone? Suggestions for editing POV are welcome. Corrections to statements of fact are also welcome.

monkeysuncle2k@netscape.net

The question of whether or not Humanism is a religion is not relevant, as it is clearly a belief system (or "life stance", the term preferred by the IHEU) and is now protected by the same international laws that protect freedom of religion, or other non-theistic beliefs (including the right to have no beliefs). Wikipedia – Humanism(Belief System)


 * Would the person who wrote the following sentence please insert their information? Thanks, Kevo Bravo (talk) 20:50, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Therefore it can not be said that Camp Quest seeks to provide a summer camp free of religious dogma, as there theory's and beliefs are there religious dogma!

comment
Suggestions for POV edits are welcome.

monkeysuncle2k@netscape.net

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Suggestions for POV edits are still welcome, 19 November 2005. You will have to be more specific about NPOV.

monkeysuncle2k@netscape.net


 * Someone's removed the POV stuff I was concerned about. I still think the entry could be more encyclopedic--at present it's one big chunk of text and should probably be divided into subheadings.


 * Monkeysuncle2k, please sign your comments by using the timestamp (~), according to Wikipedia policy, rather than just typing your email address. It will cause your username or IP address and the current time and date to appear. Like so: --The Famous Movie Director 04:40, 26 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Given that you no longer have a POV objection, I've removed the corresponding tag. Please remember to perform that update yourself next time. Kevo Bravo (talk) 21:07, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for all your suggestions, Famous. --68.41.183.234 22:31, 26 November 2005 (UTC) (monkeysuncle)

Criticism
The Criticism section as it stands is very poor, but it certainly shouldn't be replaced by a paragraph responding to it. Discuss such things on the talk page and edit the Criticism section to a better version, with sources. I've reverted to the older version, but it should still be fixed. Also, sign your contributions on talk pages but not on article pages. --The Famous Movie Director 07:08, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Comment from article moved to talk page
Since commentary is inappropriate for wikipedia articles, I have moved the following comment from the Criticism section of article itself to this page:
 * "Above assertions are unverifiable and Camp Quest holds them to be untrue. Camp Quest objects to slander of its name and stated purpose.  Operators of Camp Quest, including the Board of Directors of Camp Quest, Inc. and the Board of Directors of Camp Quest of Michigan, Inc., have no knowledge of "supporters" (or anyone else for that matter) who "criticize religious groups for holding religious summer camps" for any purpose, and such statements are expressly disavowed.(68.41.183.234 17:10, 8 January 2006 (UTC))"

delldot | talk 08:57, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Moved from article to talk page
Since the information seems very relvent to Camp Quest Canada's. I have a good way to work this into the current revised article.

Camp Quest Canada
Camp Quest Canada is a Canadian freethinker Camp modelled after the original US Camp Quest. It was created in 2004 by the Humanist Association of Canada with help from a grant from the Institute for Humanist Studies. Kathy Meidell, president of the Kitchener Waterloo Cambridge Guelph Humanists and second vice president of the Humanist Association of Canada, is its current director.

Motto
Canada's first and only summer camp for freethinking kids.

"It's Beyond Belief!" MicahDCochran 00:14, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Opinions
This:

"Some supporters of Camp Quest criticise religious groups for holding religious summer camps, arguing that these serve only to divide children of different faiths. Arguing this way and holding a summer camp for non-believers is a double standard."

is opinionated, regardless of what truth it holds.


 * Please sign your comments by typing this: --~
 * Yeah, this statement doesn't belong in the article. Who cares if "some supporters" think X? On this page we're only interested in the camp's official stance (and who are these supporters anyway?). Unfortunately it's the only critical sentence in the whole article, but I'm going to take it out anyway. The rest of the article still needs its enthusiasm toned down. --The Famous Movie Director 03:14, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Opinions
It may be helpful for purposes of accuracy if those who have never attended a Camp Quest and do not serve on the Board of Directors of any of the individual organizations NOT contribute to what they THINK this summer camp project is about. The programs, mathods, principles and purposes are set down in a canon document, and several statements made in the wiki text clearly do not reflect that canon. In some cases it is clearly wrong. Corrections will be made in the near future and regularly policed. 68.41.183.234 01:19, 22 August 2006 (UTC) (monkeysuncle)

Notability
I've tagged this page for notability. After reading the entry, and the user comments, I don't think this camp really warrents a page, or at least not one this long. The page is largely unsourced, and most summer camps don't have wikipedia entries. --Wgbc2032 00:14, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * That's like arguing for deleting the Mick Jagger article because "most British people don't have wikipedia entries." JCCyC (talk) 21:49, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree with JCCyC. The camp is notable, as can be shown by some of the comments you're referring to, and hence it warrants an articleMattyp9999 (talk) 12:53, 2 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I find the article very notable - this summer camp is obviously different from most, and clearly of interest to some. The suggestion that it should be wholly removed brings your bias into question. Kevo Bravo (talk) 20:41, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

"Irreligious children"
Should this phrase be in the introduction? There's no indication I can find that the camp is for irreligious children. The reason I bring it up is that atheists tend to disagree (quite rightly in my opinion) with placing these sorts of labels onto children, hence "children of atheists, agnostics etc". The phrase seems out of place here.Mattyp9999 (talk) 12:51, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

I removed the word "irreligious" because like you said, the official Camp Quest, Inc. page doesn't use any terms that would indicate that that's the camp's official stance. Rocketskis (talk) 15:26, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Camp Quest UK
This source says ''This article was amended on 1 July 2009. To clarify, Richard Dawkins has not played a significant role in organising or financially supporting Camp Quest UK, nor did he donate an autographed £10 note to be given as a prize at the camp. This has been corrected.'' The article claims that Dawkins has autographed a note - should this claim be removed?Autarch (talk) 22:06, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Rocketskis (talk) 15:24, 20 July 2010 (UTC)This page indicates that the note was not donated by Richard Dawkins but by Camp Quest UK Director Samantha Stein. However, this section of the Camp Quest UK homepage indicates that Richard Dawkins did sign the note, so it looks like the claim about the autograph is correct. Rocketskis (talk) 15:24, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Article cleanup
This article was temporarily deleted yesterday by an editor who cited rule G11 that it is exclusively promotional. After further discussion the page was reinstated but the promotional concerns still need to be addressed.

To paraphrase the other editor's concerns, quoting the mission is acceptable but the rest of that paragraph talks about what Camp Quest promotes and its intended goal to the point that it is pov opinion disguised as fact.

I am planning to make an attempt to remove that excessive language and then I hope to find additional secondary sources to further extend the encyclopedic tone of the article. If there is further concern about the quality of the article please discuss it here so that it can be addressed by the group. Allecher (talk) 01:31, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Prometheus camps in Scandinavia
Do you think it would be relevant to make a reference to Prometheus camps as a similar secular camps project? The article on Prometheus camps has a reference to Camp Quest in the 'See Also' section.Open 2 (talk) 11:01, 25 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, seems a good idea to me.


 * Something else that needs doing is to move any relevant facts or quotations of opinion from the Times, USA Today, New York Times and ABC News external links into the article, with inline citations, and then remove them from the External Links section. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 19:51, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Camp Quest. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120303234024/http://www.camp-quest.org.uk/media/press-releases/corrections-to-sunday-times-series-of-articles-printed-2862009/ to http://www.camp-quest.org.uk/media/press-releases/corrections-to-sunday-times-series-of-articles-printed-2862009/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 14:20, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

"Murrow Indian Children's Home donation" section
This really has nothing directly significant to do with Camp Quest. It's about a tiff between an atheist and the children's home. Camp Quest had nothing to do with any of it and it's only tenebrous connection is being where the atheist is ultimately donating is money. The section should be removed. 71.55.143.130 (talk) 04:21, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Rewrite
This page has a lot of banners, I am attempting a rewrite over the next few days. I welcome the input of other editors, including quality citations (either here or on my talk) including any considered criticisms from good sources. Thanks Mramoeba (talk) 11:17, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Rewrite done. The international branches info was very sketchy so a lot of that has either gone or been properly cited, and a lot of the history was overly detailed, also gone. I think it is possible the info about the Kentucky bill could also go but it seems to be pertinent to the organisation and a little ironic considering its ethos so I left it in. The popular culture wasn't at all encyclopaedic so I removed that also. Thanks. Mramoeba (talk) 20:48, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

Congrats!
Hey guys! I'm pleased to see how much this page has grown since the beginning! I started it on a lark, but it now contains lots of great information, and it looks like you've been handling various forms of criticism very well. Good work everyone! Cladist (talk) 03:16, 6 September 2018 (UTC)