Talk:Campaigns of the Philippine–American War

Merged article created
This article was created as a merger of the List of Philippine insurrection campaigns and Battles of the Philippine–American War articles. See discussion predating the creation of this article at Talk:Battles of the Philippine–American War. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 02:28, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

1902 proclamation by Teddy Roosevelt -- End of the war? Mindinao?
I haven't mentioned TR's proclamation in the initial draft of this article, and I've presumed that his proclamation, unmentioned here, ended the war. His proclamation is quoted here, and does not explicitly speak of an end to the war. It is a proclamation of general amnesty for persons who had participated in Philippine insurrections against the U.S., and it explicitly excludes parts of the territory "inhabited by Moro tribes". This might be a hook fo changing the definition of the ending date of the Philippine-American War from 1902 to 1913 (or possibly to some other alternative date), as far as WP articles are concerned. All relevant WP articles of which I am aware which touch on this currently describe the war itself as ending in 1902, and some of them describe later hostilities continuing up to approximately 1913 as having occurred subsequent to the conclusion of the war. Perhaps this needs another look. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 07:13, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Moved article from Campaigns of the Philippine Insurrection to Campaigns of the Philippine-American War
I went ahead and moved this article to Campaigns of the Philippine–American War because we should be bold, because there was only the briefest discussion on Talk:Battles of the Philippine–American War and that was tangental at best, and because all the other articles use the phrase "Philippine-American War" and we should be consistent. A brief on Wikipedia shows use of "Philippine Insurrection" only in articles about U.S. Military units, where it is appropriate. All other articles use "war". If anyone objects strongly enough that they want to revert my move, feel free to do so, just put your reasoning here. If you disagree with the move, but not strong enough to revert my changes, please also put your reasoning here. Thanks. Ta. --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 13:47, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

"Manuel Tinio in Ilocano"
In the Zapote River campaign (June 13, 1899) section, "Manuel Tinio in Ilocano" is mentioned, seemingly using Ilocano as to refer to a geographic area. Perhaps this needs correction. (??) Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 07:05, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Nitpick dates for the "official" beginning and end of the war
This edit caught my eye. I'm not going to nitpick the major thrust of the change, which is probably an improvement. However, the added text saying "The Philippine-American War officially started in February, 1899 ..." bothers me. I guess that the officiality of the start of the war in February of 1899 might be supported by this, but Pedro Paterno's proclamation of war on June 2, 1899 complicates that as the date of the "official" beginning of the war.

Also, the July 4, 1902 date as an official ending of the war is complicated by GMA's proclamation that the war ended on April 16, 1902, described in (recent changes to) the Ending the war in 1902 section of the article. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 12:49, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Good points. Let me rewrite it a bit and see if it is any better. --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 01:52, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I've tweaked it a bit more. Sold was an oversimplified characterization. I've brought this into line with the Treaty of Paris (1898) article. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 20:20, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Indent levels
Previously I had adjusted the indent levels, moving the campaigns "up" to full sub-headings. User:Wtmitchell has adjusted them back. I originally adjusted them because I found -- and find -- the bold text hard to distinguish. I find it hard to notice the difference between larger and slight larger bold text. Further I thought that since this article was called "Campaigns of..." that each campaign should have its own section and heading. You can see my version here {https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Campaigns_of_the_Philippine–American_War&oldid=598972068]. So what do people think? Should we keep the current set up with each campaign having its own sub-section and sub-heading delineated by bold text, or should we move each campaign "up" to its own section and heading with a line separating the sections? --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 02:09, 14 March 2014 (UTC)


 * My edit adjusting index levels was something I did in passing when this article popped up on my watchlist and I noticed
 * that the first section was headed During Philippine–American War
 * that there were sections further down headed Ending the war in 1902 and Post-war period
 * that there were a bunch of sections about individual campaigns which occurred during the war which followed the During Philippine–American War heading but which were not indented as subsections of what seemed to me to be a major section heading setting off that time period. It seemed to me that those subsections covering campaigns which took place during the period of the war itself ought to be indented as subsections of the During Philippine–American War section.


 * The Ending the war in 1902 section contains only narrative material unrelated to campaigns, and the Post-war period section contains material which, as indicated by its section header, is not "of the Philippine-American War".


 * It's all my fault anyhow. I created this mess in the first place when I created this article as a merger of two other articles. I've never really been happy with it. How about this:
 * remove the During Philippine–American War header
 * de-indent the campaign info I indented
 * remove the Ending the war in 1902 section and replace it with introductory material explaining the difficulty in pinning down starting and ending dates for "the war itself" and explaining the choices made about that for purposes of this article
 * remove the Post-war period section, and replace it with info in that introductory material explaining that some hostilities continued after the cessation of general warfare, and that info on these hostilities can be found in separate (wikilinked) articles.


 * One difficulty I have with this is that this source lists "Mindanao : 4 July 1902-31 December 1904 and 22 October 1905" and "Jolo : 1-24 May 1905 and 6-8 March 1906 and 11-15 June 1913". However, that source lists campaigns of the "Philippine Insurrection", arguably comprising (1) the period of general warfare and (2) a period of continued hostilities after the close of general warfare.


 * Perhaps there should be info here about the terms "Philippine Insurrection" and "Philippine–American War", but this article isn't the place to get into detail about that. There's a footnote about that in the infobox of the Philippine–American War article, but I don't think it is particularly well done there and I can't offhand think of a place where it is explained clearly.


 * Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions? Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 03:43, 15 March 2014 (UTC)


 * I've just created a wikilinkable article section at Philippine–American War which might be useful to reference from this article. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 01:34, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I think that your suggestions are good. In other words, strip out elements and aim for an article closer to a "List of..." article.
 * As for the introductory wording on the date, the page that you linked to has a section that could help: "After these campaigns only scattered insurrectionist elements remained active in north and south Luzon. Lawton (killed on 18 December 1899) drove up the Marikina in December to cut important insurgent communication lines, and Wheaton and Schwan completed pacification of Cavite in January - February 1900. Subsequently, insurgent remnants in the Visayans and Mindanao were dispersed. The capture of Aguinaldo by Brig. Gen. Frederick Funston, on 23 March 1901, dealt the final blow to the insurgent cause. President Roosevelt announced official conclusion of the Insurrection on 4 July 1902."
 * --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 11:03, 16 March 2014 (UTC)