Talk:Can't Take My Eyes Off You/Archive 1

Coneheads
Isn't this song in the Coneheads movie??????--24.136.215.85 17:11, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes it is --24.232.15.13 02:35, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Same song?
Is this the same song as I Can't Take My Eyes Off Of You? Alex1 15:12, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it is. According to BMI (a music publisher's administrator), the legal title of the song is "Can't Take My Eyes Off Of You". Bbrownlie (talk) 14:38, 5 June 2008 (UTC)bbrownlie

When was it that Ayumi Hamasaki sang this song? Do we actually have proof of this?

The song is commonly (mis?)referred to as I Can't Take My Eyes Off Of You - shouldn't the article recognise this somehow? (ricjl (talk) 19:14, 5 June 2008 (UTC))

Well, actually, all the CDs I have (and I have quite a few) show the song title as "Can't Take My Eyes Off You". So, what are you going to do if the CD companies can't get it right? I certainly wouldn't mind if the article referenced the fact that there are at least three interpretations of the song title, however subtle the differences. I will edit the article and see if it passes muster. Bbrownlie (talk) 02:42, 6 June 2008 (UTC)bbrownlie

No longer requesting move
Current page name: "Can't Take My Eyes Off You"; proposed, new name: "Can't Take My Eyes Off Of You".

According to WikiProject Music/MUSTARD, the current title of the page name for this song is incorrect, as it should be listed as the "natural title" of the song. The reference to Naming conventions (pieces of music), when the page was previously moved, at this page log:, is also incorrect, as the WP:NC article it refers to concerns the style of naming classical, not popular, music. Funandtrvl (talk) 16:10, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

The actual, legal, copyrighted title of this song per BMI at this link,, is: "CAN'T TAKE MY EYES OFF OF YOU" (Legal Title - BMI Work #177301). Also, refer to:. Proposal is to move and rename the page, reflecting the actual, legal title of the song and make the current, incorrect page name a redirect.


 * Or "Can't Take My Eyes Off of You" per Wikipedia naming convention. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 17:36, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Oppose - rename to the most common of Can't Take My Eyes off of You, Can't Take My Eyes off You and I Can't Take My Eyes off of You  Actually Wikipedia articles should generally be named after the common name used to refer to she subject, unless there are specific project rules, which I don't believe applies in this case. Frequently this may happen to coincide with the legal name. I believe WikiProject Music/MUSTARD is discussing the use of parenthetical disambiguators, stating they should only be used if needed; I believe "natural title" in this contects refers to what it would be called without the need for disambiguation. Naming conventions (pieces of music) was indeed referenced incorrectly (wherever it was referenced); it appears there are no project-specific naming conventions for popular music songs, so WP:NAME should be followed, in particular WP:COMMONNAME. Prepositions should not be capitalised; grammar isn't my forte, but I believe off and of are both prepositions in this phrase and thus the title should be the most common of Can't Take My Eyes off of You, Can't Take My Eyes off You and I Can't Take My Eyes off of You --Rogerb67 (talk) 23:30, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * A quick Google suggests Can't Take My Eyes off You has it, but I'm happy to change my mind to arguments based on WP:NAME. --Rogerb67 (talk) 23:35, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Funandtrvl (talk) 04:36, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I have changed the "of" in the title of the proposed name change, so that it is not capitalized, per the reminder of WP's naming conventions. The word "Off" should still remain capitalized, however, because it is an adverb, modifying the verb, not an adjective or preposition, (as in "Take Off", verb=to take; adverb=off).  In the disambiguation discussion, it states that the "natural title" should always be used to name the page, it does not matter whether there is a disambiguation page that is needed or not.  It would be best to use the legal name of the song and yes, when searching the internet, it has been noted that there are several versions of the title of this song that are out there; however, could we please use "correct English" here, for the song name?  It looks so much more professional!
 * Re. grammar; off can be an adverb or a proposition, or even an adjective, depending on use. Take is a complex verb and takes many different meanings, with different grammatical constructs; it shouldn't be surprising that off can be different parts of speech when used with take:
 * Taking flight/leaving; take off is a phrasal verb thus off is an adjective in this context. Clearly it can't be a preposition since there's no noun for it to go before; "the plane took off".
 * Removing something: Here take is simply a verb, e.g. "I can't take my pen"; or you can add a prepositional phrase; "I can't take my pen off of the table"; off of being the (complex) preposition of the prepositional phrase. The example works with off as the preposition too; "I can't take my pen off the table"
 * Re. "natural title"; you are imputing this phrase with a meaning it cannot support; how do you justify "natural title" meaning "legal title" rather than "most common title"? Incidentally, if you want to use "correct English", you should be rooting for removing the 'of'; using off of is gramatically poor and unprofessional.
 * --Rogerb67 (talk) 09:11, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Funandtrvl (talk) 17:19, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Whether the title is changed to "Can't Take My Eyes off of You" or "Can't Take My Eyes Off of You", it really does not matter to me. For the usage of the modern, correct or formal English, one can find arguments for each side. The following quote, from the Random House Dictionary, explains my interpretation (and I admit that I like rarities): "Usage note: The phrasal preposition off of is old in English, going back to the 16th century. Although usage guides reject it as redundant, recommending off without of, the phrase is widespread in speech, including that of the educated: Let's watch as the presidential candidates come off of the rostrum and down into the audience. Off of is rare in edited writing except to give the flavor of speech."
 * I cannot argue about "natural vs. common" title usages anymore, but I will say that the title of the song should match what the composer/writer/singer uses as the title. On Frankie Valli's official website, the title that is used is this: "1967 "Frankie Valli: Solo" hits stores. "Can't Take My Eyes Off of You" hits No. 2; "Cashbox" No. 1".
 * Therefore, I am proposing that the page name be updated to reflect the title usage from the official website.


 * Oppose. Current title, warts and all, is the common name. Andrewa (talk) 00:10, 18 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I am withdrawing my request to change the page name, because on the album cover, the song title is: "Can't Take My Eyes Off You".Funandtrvl (talk) 15:54, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Capitalisation of song title
Before I nominate, is there any consensus for or opposition to a move to Can't Take My Eyes off You (off in lower case)? The above discussion appears to indicate all are now agreed that "off" is a preposition (of five letters or less) and thus should not be capitalised per WP:CAPS, but it's eminently possible I'm misreading it. Thanks. --Rogerb67 (talk) 12:15, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Agree: Would seem to follow WP:CAPS, unless someone else comes up with another rule somewhere, that counteracts it!Funandtrvl (talk) 15:37, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

BTW, does anyone know how to nest the code for "Chart position" into the song infobox, so that it will show up on a line? I have not yet found the way to make it work and would appreciate any expert help! (See comments on edit page) Thanks.Funandtrvl (talk) 15:42, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was move. JPG-GR (talk) 20:58, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Can& → Can't Take My Eyes off You — "off" is a preposition (of five letters or less) and thus should not be capitalised per WP:CAPS. For justification of the grammar, see discussion in above withdrawn move request — Rogerb67 (talk) 20:51, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.



Discussion

 * Any additional comments:

This was initially an uncontroversial proposal, but I contested it because I wasn't sure if "off", as it is used here, is an adverb or preposition. If it is a preposition, then this should be a straightforward move. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 21:41, 25 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Justification cut, pasted and modified to fit context from above.
 * off can be an adverb or a proposition, or even an adjective, depending on use. Take is a complex verb and takes many different meanings, with different grammatical constructs; it shouldn't be surprising that off can be different parts of speech when used with take:
 * Taking flight/leaving; take off is a phrasal verb thus off is an adjective in this context. Clearly it can't be a preposition since there's no noun for it to go before; "the plane took off".
 * Removing something: Here take is simply a verb, e.g. "I can't take my pen"; or you can add a prepositional phrase; "I can't take my pen off the table"; off being the preposition of the prepositional phrase.

--Rogerb67 (talk) 22:00, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 16:50, 29 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Rogerb67, you must have a degree in linguistics? You really know your stuff, I'm impressed!!
 * BTW, I just saw the real Frankie Valli this evening, he was in Hoffmann Estates, IL doing "Tribute on Ice" (airing on NBC on 02Nov08), with Brian Boitano and Peggy Fleming. It was a great show, he sang every one of his hits.  I paid particular attention to "Can't take my eyes..." and the lyrics are:  "Can't take my eyes off of you", as sung by the one and only.  I know nobody seems to want to name the page with the correct title, but I wish you guys would!!--Funandtrvl (talk) 05:51, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
 * You are right, it should be "Can't Take My Eyes Off of You". The article also says that's the legal title. 199.125.109.135 (talk) 18:14, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Damien Rice
To the best of my knowledge Damien Rice hasn't covered this song and it seems someone has erroneously added The Blower's Daughter which contains the chorus "I can't take my eyes off of you" to the article. Should it be removed? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YXVMCHG-Nk —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.41.24.202 (talk) 14:48, 5 November 2010 (UTC)