Talk:Canadair Sabre/Archive 1

F-86?
Maybe I'm quibbling, but I'd disagree with that. It was a U.S. ID, not Canadian, regardless whether the Canadair internal ID CL-13 was ever used. F-86 wasn't, either... Trekphiler 10:09, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Canadair Sabre
Most reference books I've seen list this as the Canadair Sabre. I'm not going to make another move without some sort of consensus here, which ought to have been done here before the last move.

Anyway, WP:AIR naming convention is usually just Designation-Name for US aircraft (or other nations that assign designations, like Canada's CF-105 Arrow), or Company-Name. F-86 Sabre is the US version, so this one ought to be Canadair Sabre. -- BillCJ 23:44, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

In the absence of dissent or comment in 10 days, I am proceeding with the renaming. - BillCJ 18:21, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

The move above was unable to be made because of an existing page. I put off applying for it to be moved,and forgot about it.

I agree that Canadair F-86 Sabre is inaccurate, which is why I proposed another name. I believe Canadair Sabre is a better name for the article than the other options, including Canadair Sabre (CL-13). The best name for an article is not always the technically-most accurate name, but a well-recongnied one, esp a shorter one. (See Naming conventions (aircraft) for guidelines.) The next time someone wishes to make a move, please use proceedures, esp as a move to another name had already been proposed here. - BillCJ 02:24, 29 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

PAGE MOVED per discussion below. -GTBacchus(talk) 02:06, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Requested move 2006
Canadair F-86 Sabre → Canadair Sabre — WP:AIR naming convention for non-US-service aircraft- Company, name. Also is the simplest name. - BillCJ 02:39, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Survey

 * ''Add  * Support   or   * Oppose   on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~.


 * Support - Simplest accurate name. Further resonings in above sections. - BillCJ 04:41, 29 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Rename to - Canadair CF-86 Sabre. 132.205.93.33 05:22, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Support Canadair Sabre. Most common useage of the aircraft designation. I would not support CF-86. The Air Force History and Heritage Department, 1 CAD do not use this designation nor does the Canada Aviation Museum. I do not know where it originated and in checking with Larry Milberry's The Canadair Sabre (1986), the designation: CF-86 never appears during the service career of the aircraft. The Western Canada Aviation Museum where I worked as an Education Director has the last Mk 6 in its collection and it is identified as a Canadair Sabre Mk 6. Bzuk 06:28, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Discussion
Hi BillCJ, you are right that the name change is required and I tried to move the article to Canadair Sabre but that move was halted by an administrator, that is why the Canadair Sabre (CL-13) was the only move that was allowed. Although the official designation is CL-13, Ron Pickler and Larry Milberry in their seminal work, Canadair: the First 50 Yearspointedly refer to the aircraft as the Canadair Sabre. Where there is a direct and continual reference to CL-13 is in RCAF designations. The air force maintains that CL-13 is the correct nomenclature for the Canadair Sabre.

If you can figure out a way to move this article (which I am still editing by the way) to Canadair Sabre, I will certainly support you in this move. Bzuk 02:55, 29 November 2006 (UTC)


 * CL-13 is the Canadair designation, and not the RCAF designation. The RCAF designation is CF-86. 132.205.93.33 05:22, 29 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm just trying to keep the new name simple. We could argue over whether it should be CL-13, or CF-86, but including them would make the name longer, and really not make the article easier to find. This is why the WP:AIR naming conventions usually want the name kept to 2 words/designations. - BillCJ 05:37, 29 November 2006 (UTC)


 * If we don't achieve a consensus her3e soon, the name is going to stay as Canadair F-86 Sabre. Even if one believes Canadair F-86 Sabre is the better choice, isn't Canadair Sabre just plain simpler, and alt least better than an inaccurate name, as all of us here have admitted thet Canadair F-86 Sabre is incorrect. Thanks for your consideration. - BillCJ 04:06, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I can live with that. The new Canadian War Museum uses "Canadair F-86 Sabre." Bzuk 04:56, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

New lead pic
We could really use a new pic of a Canadair-built Sabre for the Infobox; th currnt one is B&W, and grainy, with a caption on the pic itself. The other pic on the page is great one, but has several aircraft, and is too tall to fit the infobox well. We could also use a pic or 2 of Canadair Sabres which served in other air forces. - BillCJ 17:37, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I have a photo I took yesterday of the Canadair Sabre at the Canada Aviation Museum. I will post it on Monday. Bzuk 04:56, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Wing profiling
Did the Canadair version ever get the 6-3 wing? IE, was the Mk 6 based on the E wing with slats, or the later F version that regained them? Worth mentioning either way I'd wager. Maury 01:45, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Museum Location
There is an intact Sabre at the Museum of Flight in Seattle, WA, in orginal RCAF livery. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.234.79.254 (talk) 03:32, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Reasons for termination
I can't seem to find any information on why these stop being used, and that is pretty important info for a plane. Does nayone who works on this article know where I could find such info? Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 16:48, 31 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The usual reason is obselesence - newer fighter designs were faster and more capable. Even so, many Sabres remained in service for a long time. I'm not sure there is a more-specific answer. - BillCJ 17:18, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Golden Hawks.jpg
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Requested move 2011

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

No consensus to move. What is interesting about the discussion, is that it seems to be saying the previous move should not have happened since it was at the common name. If my assessment is correct, then a new request to return to the old name would be needed. Vegaswikian (talk) 20:12, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Canadair Sabre → Canadair CL-13 Sabre – Full "manufacturer-designation-name" page title sequence. The Bushranger One ping only 23:52, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Here's a fun fact, the Royal Canadian Air Force has always used the designation: "Canadair F-86 Sabre". Larry Milberry, Canada's most renown aviation historian has written the authoritative reference source, The Canadair Sabre and throughout, he uses: ""Canadair F-86 Sabre". Almost every other source including Ron Pickler/Larry Milberry's Canadair uses the more simplified "Canadair Sabre" with Mks tacked on to identify specific variants. Almost no reputable reference source uses CL-13. FWiW, there are two museum examples in our city, both of them identified as "Canadair F-86 Sabre". Bzuk (talk) 04:41, 29 December 2011 (UTC).
 * The thing is, though, is that what it was designated at the time, or is that just what "everybody calls it" nowadays? - The Bushranger One ping only 00:36, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * AFAIK, no one ever used the CL-13 designation much, even at the Canadair factory. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 01:18, 30 December 2011 (UTC).
 * Agreed. I lived around this airplane for a long time and we never called it a Canadair Sabre or CL-13. And certainly not a Canadair CL-13 Sabre. Wouldn't WP:COMMONNAME apply? BC talk to me  01:21, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Assessment comment
Substituted at 10:47, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Lead Image
Although I appreciate a lead image should be flying, removing the landing gear and background with photoshop is probably not the best way. MilborneOne (talk) 15:10, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Yikes! I didn't notice that. Not cool. BC talk to me 15:17, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I concur. In-flight images should be of aircraft that were actually flying. - BilCat (talk) 16:08, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Operators
Israel operated this aircraft aswell. 45.44.46.194 (talk) 03:15, 22 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Please cite a reliable published source for this. BilCat (talk) 03:52, 22 September 2022 (UTC)