Talk:Canadian College of Naturopathic Medicine/Archive 1

Neutral Point of View and Proper Sourcing
Correction to the previous comment: ND students must pass three rounds of OSCE examinations: two in second year, and one at the end of third year (clinic entry exam). At the end of second year, all ND students must sit NPLEX Step 1, which is equivalent to the USMLE Step 1 of the US (Similar to the MCCQE exams). All NPLEX exams, administered by NABNE are standardized, continent-wide exams. PLEASE REFER TO SOURCES. I highly recommend that the author checks out the Naturopathic Physician Regulation (2009) of British Columbia and the Naturopathy Act (2009) of Ontario. Furthermore, regarding randomized trials, PUBMED is the place to go. CCNM also has links to many naturopathic studies. The official journal of the American Association of Naturopathic Physicians publishes peer-reviewed, evidence-based studies on a regular basis (SEE LINKS). Admission guidelines to AANMC/CNME-accredited naturopathic medical schools is laid out by the AANMC, the same way admission to allopathic medical schools is guided by the AAMCs in the US. I highly recommend that the author below checks out the "EXTERNAL LINKS" for ALL the answers to his/her questions in order to put an end to his/her skepticism towards the validity of the profession of naturopathic medicine as it is in NORTH AMERICA. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.110.77.249 (talk) 09:41, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

There is a significant problem with the way that the authors of this article have assumed medical education and naturopathic education to be equivalent. There is no randomized control trial or even an case-control study to evaluate the equivalency between allopathic and naturopathic education or clinical outcomes. There are significant differences as to the standard of evidence used to treat patients in either disciplines in peer-reviewed journals. Prospective naturopathic students have an average GPA of 3.1, while medical students in Canada have an average cGPA of 3.8. In addition, naturopathic students must not pass a national standardized clinical test, such as the MCCQE Part II, OSCE or Royal College equivalencies. The only standard test is the NPLEX, run by the National Board of Naturopathic Examiners, which is a multiple choice test only. Even nurses get clinical evaluations. Please do not revert any new edits regarding these questions until there is proper discussion on this matter. Wikipedia is not an outlet or source of reliable information. Neither is the Canadian Medical Association. Neither should be your own college, advocacy body or the 'licensing body' for naturopathy. 74.216.84.254 (talk) 06:40, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Can we agree that the use of the word "medicine" is not proprietary to the allopathic system? Then can we also agree that students who study Chinese, Ayurvedic or allopathic medicine are simply students who are studying medicine? The CNME is recognized by both Canadian and US departments of education, so having accreditation in quotes shows your bias and ignorance. Also, your mention of average GPA is laughable and assertion of ND's not having clinical evaluations shows how much you really don't know about the profession. --Travis Thurston+ 08:43, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Moving External links to talk page
Per WP:LINKFARM I am moving this overly long list of external links here. Some input regarding which of these is important/relevant enough to put back in (or a bold edit replacing the few most important/relevant links) appreciated. - - MrBill3 (talk) 10:40, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Naturopathy Act (2007); ON
 * American Association of Naturopathic Physicians
 * College of Naturopathic Physicians of British Columbia (CNPBC)
 * Council on Naturopathic Medical Education (CNME)
 * College of Naturopaths of Ontario (CONO)
 * North American Board of Naturopathic Examiners (NABNE)
 * Association of Accredited Naturopathic Medical Colleges (AANMC)
 * Canadian Association of Naturopathic Doctor (CAND)
 * Ontario Association of Naturopathic Doctors (OAND)
 * Boucher Institute of Naturopathic Medicine (BINM)
 * Oncology Association of Naturopathic Physicians (OncANP)
 * Pediatric Association of Naturopathic Physicians (PedANP)
 * Journal of the American Association of Naturopathic Physicians (JAANP)
 * Naturopathic Education and Research Consortium
 * Integrated Healthcare Practitioners (IHP Magazine)
 * Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine Centralized Application Service (NDCAS)

Location
The location given is in Richmond Hill, not Toronto.

The College is Located at 1255 Sheppard Avenue East, which is part of the City of Toronto (formerly North York), NOT Richmond Hill. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.110.77.249 (talk) 11:01, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I added a section header to this discussion. - - MrBill3 (talk) 10:16, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Licensing material not in scope of article removed
I have removed the following,

Students must successfully complete three rounds of Objective Structured Clinical Examinations (OSCEs) and two rounds of standardized licensing examinations. OSCEs I and II are administered at the end of each term in second year, followed by the clinic entry exam (OSCE III) at the end of third year. The North American Board of Naturopathic Examiners (NABNE) administers and regulates both parts of the Naturopathic Physicians Licensing Examinations (NPLEX) required for licensure. NPLEX Step 1 is usually written prior to the start of third year, and it tests all of the biomedical sciences. NPLEX Step 2 (clinical sciences) is scheduled post-graduation and it is a requirement for all provincial and state board exams. These are similar to the United States Medical Licensing Examination and Medical Council of Canada Evaluating Examination examinations. In order to become fully licensed, every applicant must effectively pass all provincial board exams, in addition to various other certifications (e.g. pharmacology, intravenous therapy, etc.).

refs

This material is not about the school itself, it concerns licensing. - - MrBill3 (talk) 22:01, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Request Add/edit Clinics, research and legislative involvement
Hello. I suggest and request these edits below be made to the page: pulling the RSNC, BNTC and OICC together into one section under "Clinics" and the addition of research and legislative involvement. I note that the OICC has presently been removed from the page entirely. I make the case for it to be added back, because although they operate quite differently, as it is run and operated by CCNM as much as the clinic in Brampton is. 30sos (talk) 17:18, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Clinics
CCNM operates several teaching clinics across the Greater Toronto Area (GTA), one private clinic, as well as a cancer care centre in Ottawa.

Teaching clinics
Teaching clinics are clinics where patients are seen by a fourth-year student intern under the direct supervision of a registered, licensed naturopathic doctor.

Robert Schad Naturopathic Clinic
The Robert Schad Naturopathic Clinic (RSNC) is the main, on-site teaching clinic of CCNM. The clinic facilities include hydrotherapy suites, a botanical dispensary, and a diagnostic laboratory. Besides treating general health concerns, and also features specific shifts for pediatrics, cancer care, sports medicine, and chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia.

Satellite Clinics
CCNM has partnerships with several community health centres around the GTA where naturopathic care is provided for residents who live within geographic boundaries surrounding the centres. Some community health centres have a special focus, such as aboriginal health or HIV/AIDS.

Brampton clinic section should probably fit here Although, please note that the name of the clinic is Brampton Naturopathic Teaching Clinic. It is situated in the Brampton Civic Hospital and the hospital has representatives on the steering committee, but it is not run by the hospital. I don't know that the Osler Foundation would appreciate it being called the "Brampton Civic Hospital Naturopathic Teaching Clinic".

Professional Clinics
Professional clinics are clinics in which patients are seen by licensed, registered naturopathic doctors and other health professionals. Patients are not seen by student interns at these locations.

Integrated Health Centre
The Integrated Healthcare Centre (IHC) is a private clinic in which licensed healthcare practitioners, not limited to only naturopathic doctors, can rent office space in which to practice. It is located on-site in CCNM.

Ottawa Integrative Cancer Centre
The Ottawa Integrative Cancer Centre (OICC) is the only clinic that CCNM operates outside of the GTA. The OICC is an integrative cancer care and research centre, the first of its kind in Eastern Canada. The centre has on staff health professionals from different backgrounds, including medicine, naturopathic medicine, physiotherapy, and psychiatry.

Research
CCNM’s research faculty conducts research studies on a range of health-related topics such as addiction, cancer, cardiovascular disease, and diabetes. One study concluded that there was no evidence that autism is related to the use of the MMR vaccine. Another study disproved the claim that foot baths are effective in removing toxic elements from the body. Some of these studies are done in conjunction with research faculty in other Canadian and international universities.

The OICC has been conducting research in affiliation with the Ottawa Hospital Research Institute and has received funding and grants from the Lotte and John Hecht Memorial Foundation, the Ottawa Regional Cancer Foundation, and the Gateway for Cancer Research Foundation.

Legislative involvement
CCNM has been involved in efforts to revise provincial regulations regarding the practice of naturopathic medicine.

Nicholas De Groot, Dean of CCNM, was appointed by the Lieutenant Governor of Ontario as a member of the Transitional Council of the College of Naturopaths of Ontario, an entity that is to become the regulating body of the naturopathic profession in place of the current regulatory body.

Dugald Seely, CCNM’s director of research and OICC’s executive director, has spoken as a witness before the federal Standing Committee on Health regarding the need for integration between complimentary and alternative naturopathic and conventional medicine, particularly as relating to cancer care.

—End proposed edits


 * These edits appear to provide content that would improve the article and some sources are provided. I intend to go through them and propose to add them after some rewriting. It is my opinion they represent worthwhile content properly proposed by an editor with a declared COI. I welcome other editors to contribute to adding this material to the article. I think some rewrite is needed but not much, also a few statements may require sources. May I say it is a pleasure to have an editor approach COI contributions in keeping with WP policy. I hope to be able to work on this soon. - - MrBill3 (talk) 10:16, 11 October 2013 (UTC)


 * If another editor has time to work on these edits it would be appreciated. Barring that I don't see a problem with them being done by the editor who proposed them. COI has been declared and these edits are well sourced and would improve the article. There may be some editing needed but that can be done after the addition of this material. Although WP policy discourages COI editing I think in this case it can be managed appropriately. - - MrBill3 (talk) 22:09, 18 March 2014 (UTC)