Talk:Canadian Northern Railway

Relationship to Canadian Northern Pacific Railway
Can anyone explain to me the relationship between the Canadian Northern Pacific Railway and the Canadian Northern Railway? Did CN take over both, or did CNoR first take over CNPR? There is no article for Canadian Northern Pacific Railway, or mention of it on the CNR or CNoR page, which seems strange. Fawcett5 17:14, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * The CNPR was a wholly owned subsidiary of the CNoR created for the construction and operation of the line from Edmonton to Vancouver (and maybe a few branch lines). Probably it was created to make the financing and accounting easier. The CNPR mainly existed on paper and was not usually visible to the public.  There were no cars or locomotives lettered as "Canadian Northern Pacific" for example.  As far as the public and most workers were concerned, it was just a part of the CNoR.  The were other subsidiary companies for other lines as well, such as Alberta Midland (Vegreville to Drumheller) and Edmonton, Yukon, and Pacific (Strathcona to Edmonton, and later to Stony Plain).  These were all operated as part of the CNoR system and were taken over by the Crown at the same time. Indefatigable 20:35, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks Indefatigable, that clears up a lot. I cribbed your notes to create a stub article.  Probably this stuff should be rolled into the CNoR article too...  Fawcett5 23:18, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Canadian Northern Railway Company Ltd
FYI: The Canadian Northern Railway Company Ltd., was revived in 2003 - Today, The CNoR continues as a Shortline Railway and Railway services company, providing a variety of sevices from rail car dismantling & parts reclaim to Shortline Services and Car Storage. A subsiduary of The Canadian Northern Railway Co., CANORA Railway Services, provides bridge erection, fabrication and repair. The CNoR is now based in Winnipeg, Manitoba, and is involved in a number of rail related projects throughout the Province, including limited involvment in the Manitoba Floodway Expansion, and the six new railway bridges that the project requires. There has been some media coverage in the last year, concerning the CNoR providing switching operations for the main railways, and even running passenger service again, on several routes. While the new CNoR is only a shadow of its predisessor, it continues to grow, and employs a workforce of about 60. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.161.172.91 (talk • contribs) 2006-04-19.


 * Despite the similarity in name, the modern company has no relationship to the historical CNoR, which is the subject of this article. The modern company is not notable enough to be mentioned in Wikipedia. Even if it were notable, it would have to have its own, separate article, because it's not the same company. For these reasons I am reverting the addition of info on Canadian Northern Railway Company Ltd. Indefatigable 14:29, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

It’s important to get your facts correct. During the period of Nationalization, the CNoR’s ownership transferred to the Federal Government under the banner of Canadian Government Railways, which later became the Canadian National Railway Co., however, the CNoR did not cease to exist but, became a wholly owned subsidiary of Canadian National, and operated as a holding company for real-estate and rolling stock until 1950. However, September 3, 1990 Articles of Revival were filed with the Canadian Government, allowing CNoR to again operate within it’s bi-laws, and remained a holding company independent of Canadian National until October 13, 2003. I refer you to CI90-01-49280 ATTORNEY GENERAL vs CANADIAN NORTHERN wherein the Court found that within the context of the Articles, that the new body corporate, Canadian Northern Railway Co. Ltd., was in fact the continuation of the original CNoR, but had no obligations, or liabilities of claim prior to the revival date of September 3, 1990. This however did not preclude CNoR from future lawsuits, based on the previous corporate structure as it began to buy back assets and land belonging to the original CNoR. We see this in 1996 in CI96-01-96485 ASSESSOR FOR CITY vs CNR and again in AI96-30-02929 ASSESSOR FOR THE CIT vs C.N.R. CO. ET AL where claim was made for property taxes against the CNoR, and the Courts ruled that because the CNoR was the same corporation, it would be responsible for any back taxes dating back to 1990, regardless of the date of reclaiming the land. In 2003, new Articles and bi-laws were filed and the CNoR once again became an operating company, as apposed to merely a company on paper. So there you have it, by definition of the Courts, the CNoR today is in fact the same company that started in 1899, thus making it noteworthy enough to be mentioned. Myself as many Manitobans, have great hope and expectations for this new/old short-line railway company, which promises not only employment for Manitobans but, also hope in the future of railways and passenger service in Canada. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.161.164.84 (talk • contribs) 2006-04-20.


 * Well, that's different then. I knew the CNoR was not formally dissolved until the 1950s, but I didn't know there was a legal mechanism to revive a company that had been gone for so long. Why someone would want to do it, with the risk of inheriting old debts, liabilities, and obligations, escapes me, but that's not for me to decide. You should include a few of these facts and dates in the article so that the legal relationship between the old and new companies is clear. Indefatigable 23:00, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Baron de Rothschild?
The article asserts that "Baron de Rothschild" revived the company in 2003 and the "Simon de Rothschild" article claims that he "heads the Canadian Northern Railway." Is this in fact true? Is it referenceable? A Nexis business news search does not bring anything up for Rothschild and Canadian Northern Railway, and a google search brings up a number of webpages (and one mention in a list of Rothschilds in Israel News) that seem to all be drawn from these two Google pages.

The history of the "Simon de Rothschild" article has so many different, conflicting claims that I wonder whether the whole thing is not a hoax? If I'm completely wrong, I mean no offense. But maybe some verifiable references? Llajwa 21:03, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Since this "revival" and the man who supposedly led it seem to be fictional, I've removed the information. Should a reliable source for it be found, it can be reinserted (though my distinct feeling is that no such source can exist, as the information seems to be false). - Nunh-huh 18:29, 17 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Nunh-huh, thanks for taking the plunge and removing the dubious, unsourced claims. Llajwa 18:36, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

198.48.195.178 (talk) 01:45, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

Canadian Northern Ontario Railway
Around 1905/06, CNoR purchased the James Bay Railway and renamed it the Canadian Northern Ontario Railway. Does anyone know what marque this operated under? I assume it was also CNOR, but that could be confusing... Maury Markowitz (talk) 14:04, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Anybody have a map?
Does anybody have a map of the system, I'd love to see it. and BTW, the two external links are broken or useless. Feldercarb (talk) 20:23, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Acronyms
The use of acronyms in this article (CNoR, CPR, GTR, etc.) makes it hard to understand for the average reader. It would read better if the acronyms were expanded and more colloquial language was used (e.g. "the Canadian Northern" instead of "CNoR"). -Wwallacee (talk) 11:15, 23 March 2023 (UTC)


 * I agree. I already generally try to do this in other articles. It's not like we have strict word count limits and it comes across as better writing anyway. Julius177 (talk) 12:42, 23 March 2023 (UTC)