Talk:Cancún/Archive 1

Vandalism
I removed the section on "Marine Life". All it said was "Charlie fish!", then was later edited to "Charlie fish?" ~Johnny

Funding
Article refers to a "USD $27 million loan from the International Development Bank." If we don't know which bank it was (World Bank, IADB, etc), then that should be reworded. –Hajor 14:47, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

It was the Inter-American Development Bank --Jules Siegel 04:30, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

"Commercial" links
Someone has been removing external links to websites that are devoted to information about Cancun but are supported by advertising. This is very unfair. I'd say that 99% of Cancun web pages are unashamedly commercial and promote travel agencies, hotels, airline reservations and a wealth of other services. The very few that are linked here are not in the same category.

All About Cancun is a user-driven discussion board filled with information about Cancun from people who visit here regularly or live here. Some of them do have businesses in Cancun, but the discussions are almost entirely non-commercial, including very objective and often critical reviews.

CafeCancun.com has a wealth of independent reviews, recommendations and news about Cancun. The only commercial aspect consists of book ads. The income from the ads is mostly symbolic -- not even covering the costs of maintaining the site, and a total loss if my time were charged. "Cancun User's Guide" is not a travel guide. It contains historic and cultural information about Cancun available from few other sources. It does contain some travel tips (after all resort is about travel, right?), but the overwhelming emphasis is informational. It is the only book other than Fernando Marti's "Cancun, Fantasy of Bankers," that tells Cancun's history, going all the way back to pre-Hispanic times. I would suggest that you look at Cancun Bashing Is in Style to see an example of how rich some of this material is.

I understand the desire to keep Wikipedia from becoming an advertising conduit, but there is often an element of self-righteousness in the editing that people do. Please be more sensitive to what a site is really all about before killing an external link. --Jules Siegel 04:35, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Mr. Siegel. Even the 2, yes 2, Convention and Visitors Bureau Websites Go Cancun and Cancun.info are very much commercial in nature. All About Cancun has had 100's of volunters help 1,000's of vacationers with their questions about Cancun since 1997. To quote Wikipedia: "There is nothing wrong with adding a list of content-relevant links to an article". I would add, that "Cancun User's Guide" is a Good read. --Cbeach1 17:45, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

So edit something in addition to Cancun to show your non-commercial intent. Jok2000 21:49, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Please read what I quoted from Wikipedia. Looking at the History for this page, I see 0 contributions from you. __Cbeach1 22:23, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

You should look at the history more closely. Simply click on the "Ruins in Cancun" photo and you will see that it is mine and has been here for a long time. Jok2000 17:40, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Would Cancun 101 be appropriate for the external links?

Apparently Anonymous User IP 70.28.152.36 has taken a dislike to me. While others have confirmed my edits, he/she has now deleted a Link to the Cancun Airport Cancun AirportI recently added. If this is not content related, I don't know what is. Cbeach1 17:07, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Recent edits
I see at the top of this page a request for pictures of Cancun. My wife, Anita Brown, and I have hundreds of professional-quality photographs. Maybe someone can explain why we would want to contribute some of them to illustrate this article when misguided people continue to remove links from us and others like us.

I originally supplied much of the cultural information on Cancun in this article that was until today marked for verification. Unfortunately, some overzealous person removed my attribution. I restored it and made a few other minor edits. This article has been subjected to various very crude and ignorant edits over the past few years, including the removal of links to my book and website, Cancun User's Guide, which are among the very few Cancun resources that are mainly devoted to historical, social and cultural information and analysis.

In a previous discussion of similar edits, it was argued that tourism information should be confined to the Wiki travel site. The tourism information has now been partially -- and rather inadequately restored, but the links to sites such as mine and others that provide independent information about Cancun have been removed, presumably because we somehow to stand to gain something from them. I do sell a book about Cancun. I'm not offering a link to it in the article at this time because I want to avoid the accusation of conflict of interest. I will say that the truly bizarre editing of this page -- apparently by complete outsiders who know very little about Cancun -- is an atrocious abuse of the Wikipedia system.

I'm not sure about how to enter a complaint about this, but I do intend to look into it. Meanwhile, I think that people who don't know much more about Cancun than can be found in the standard guides should refrain from removing information provided by people who actually live here or are otherwise deeply involved in Cancun life and business. It has certainly discouraged me from contributing anything further from my vast store of information about Cancun gathered in what are now nearly 24 years of living and working here. I should perhaps state that although I came here to work for Fonatur, the government agency that conceived, financed and built Cancun, and I later did graphic design for various local clients, I have absolutely no association of any kind with the Cancun tourism industry. --Jules Siegel 01:49, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Govt
who's the mayor? is there a municipal council? what party? is there a city hall? hall of justice? hospitals? cathedral? church? mosque? schools? university? the article is very touri-centric.71.142.69.128 04:02, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Since people who actually live here are routinely punished by having their external links removed, why should any of us do anything to fill out the article? What you see is mainly written by outsiders, who are usually tourists, so that's what you get. Also, since the main business of Cancun is tourism it is understandable that this would be the main content of the article.


 * There's plenty of information on the web in Spanish (and to some extent in English) about the topics that you raise. If you're so concerned about it, how about doing the research and filling in the parts that you feel are inadequate? Jules Siegel 13:20, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Spacing
Does anyone know why there is such a huge gap between Tourism in Cancun and the text? I can't seem to find the problem. --Angrymansr 22:34, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism
Marine life keeps reverting to, "Charlie fish!" I removed it earlier today, but later someone brought it back. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.86.116.106 (talk) 20:02, 24 April 2007 (UTC).

Crime and corruption: law enforcement in mexico
Mexico's corrupt law enforcement is used to suppress information about crime to avoid affecting tourism rather than find perpetrators. See the Toronto Star coverage on the Ianiero murders for example. These chronic problems should be referenced here if balanced information is intended. kgw

The Toronto Star's coverage was wildly sensationalistic. There was no merit at all to the charges that the government suppressed any information in order to avoid affecting tourism. I've lived here since 1983. The official policy on violent crime against tourists is track down the criminals and punish them, no matter how long it takes. This doesn't always happen right away, but they almost always get them. At the time that the Star published its stories, the case was less than two weeks old. It is still under very active investigation and there are rumors that arrests will be forthcoming soon. Be that as it may, how many unsolved murders are on the books in Canada today? Jules Siegel 23:20, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I guess it takes a while. Always get them? We need an article on Murders Unsolved in Mexico. Not forgotten. -- KenWalker | Talk 09:56, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

You suggest we should make and article named "Unsolved Murders" for every country? I dont think so

Improving the page on Cancun
Hello!! I was reading about Cancun and I would like to know what sports are played in Cancun and are there any professional teams that play in Cancun? I would also like to know more about the demography of Cancun like is Cancun diverse are there a lot of immigrants that immigrated to Cancun? or are there a lot of Americans living in Cancun? I would love to know more of this information on the page about Cancun. 76.192.184.22 (talk) 22:21, 9 January 2008 (UTC)romajose@dom.edu

Off The Brochure Travel Guide - Cancun & Riviera Maya

 * Off-the-Brochure Travel Guide - Cancun & Riviera Maya by Peter Greenberg Staff

I would like to suggest this link added to the External Links section —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mpalmer22 (talk • contribs) 23:22, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

What I think ...
I liked that this page mentioned the Isla da Mujeres. What could be added to that is on the Isla de Mujeres there is snorkeling, bike riding, and chances to swimm with dolphins. It is truely are great place with good food as well. The baracuta are also very neat to see if you get a chance to go snorkeling. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Amiee87 (talk • contribs) 06:01, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Intro
I think the introduction should be rewritten, who wants to know about the streets and how they intersect right of the bat ( third and fourth paragraphs). I sugges making a separate section on this. Does anybody eles agree or disagree? Rdrgz93 (talk) 13:55, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was move back per WP:NC:CITY. Any discussion to move this article to Cancún, Baja California or the like should first take place at WT:NC:CITY. JPG-GR (talk) 05:29, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Cancún, Quintana Roo. → Cancún — The move to the current name from the unambiguous common name is against both WP:NC(CN) and WP:NC:CITY —--Polaron | Talk 01:00, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Participants and closing admin pls note: this article has been moved back to its former title after this WP:RM discussion was raised but before it concluded &mdash; see the "explanatory notes" in the 'Discussion' section below for the reason why this was done. Hence, the WP:RM proposition as originally phrased above does not reflect the title this article is currently under. The below survey responses are for/against the proposition, "article title should be at Cancún, not Cancún, Quintana Roo", rather than changing this around mid-stream. Hope that's clear.--cjllw ʘ  TALK 02:51, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.


 * Support The naming convention (WP:NC:CITY) is crystal clear on this. JPG-GR (talk) 01:33, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose - all cities have common names, and Cancun is not the exception, when people type "Cancun", it's going to send them to the article despite of the article's name, all American cities include the state whether they need it or not (ei. Los Angeles, California), and Mexico's ones should not be the exception since they also use that format. Supaman89 (talk) 01:48, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Support Conform with WP:NC:CITY. This guideline states that disambiguation should be done only if necessary, as is generally the rule (except for the U.S.) Spacepotato (talk) 02:14, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Support. There is no ambiguity, there is only one Cancun. -- the D únadan 03:07, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Support per WP:NC:CITY. The only user opposing this move is not opposing this move, but opposing the naming convention itself. We have a convention in place, it works, let's use it. Wilhelm meis (talk) 04:19, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

 * explanatory notes on why this has been moved back, before conclusion of WP:RM discussion:
 * I have moved this article back (from Cancún, Quintana Roo.) to Cancún, in order to repair the damage to incoming links that resulted from errors made when the article was moved. The recent move (by Supaman89) resulted in hundreds of double double redirects being created, since after the move we were left with the chain of redirects:
 * Cancun → Cancún → Cancún, Baja California → Cancún, Quintana Roo.
 * Also, since the last of these targets incorrectly included an extraneous full stop at the title's end, we were also left with the absurdity:
 * Cancún, Quintana Roo → Cancún → Cancún, Baja California → Cancún, Quintana Roo.
 * So to fix the confusion and to act before some bot comes along making scores of unnecessary 'corrections' that would only have to be fixed again anyway (not sure the bots can even handle double-double redirects..?) I have set things back to the way they were prior to Supaman's actions. I realise that Supaman did not intend to cause this chaotic state of affairs, but I would suggest that (a) they take more care in future, and (b) they take note of the disclaimer that appears on the move page: "WARNING! This can be a drastic and unexpected change for a popular page; please be sure you understand the consequences of this before proceeding". There are many hundreds of incoming links to this page and a dozen or more redirects; the naming issue has also been discussed in the past. A unilateral move for a page such as this could not be expected to be uncontroversial, it would have been better in this case for a WP:RM move request to be registered first, before moving.
 * Please note, this action was not taken to pre-empt this WP:RM discussion, which should continue as per usual until either some consensus develops and the article can then be moved to the selected title, or else if no consensus or consensus to the contrary then it can be left here at Cancún. It was merely the most expedient way to fix a situation in which hundreds of incoming links from other articles were made invalid. --cjllw ʘ  TALK 02:39, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

TfD nomination of Template:Dmoz2
Template:Dmoz2 has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. Qazin (talk) 22:27, 4 November 2008 (UTC) kdgsgpeo0vgmkslvsdknlgriongsw,v sdghuireoghjksdgnuh —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.162.185.4 (talk) 13:37, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Tourism section
The tourism section of the artical sounds like it came right out of a travel brochure. I think some revision could be made so that it sounds more like an encyclopedia artical and not like a brochure on the city. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.174.232.42 (talk) 22:54, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Cancun vs. Cancún
As it is the currently agreed-upon Wiki name of this page, I have changed all name references in the article from Cancun to Cancún (except those that specifically talk about the name ambiguity). Unless somebody feels strongly otherwise, future edits to this page should use Cancún as well. The Tuvix 04:15, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Cancun is a gorgous country, my family and I went there on a cruise, very worth going on a cruise to.

Jules Siegel replies: You changed the references in my discussion of the ambiguity, too. I also believe that decision to rename the page Cancún is an error. It's typical of the cultural imperialism that characterizes international attitudes toward Cancun. You can come here and look at all the signs in English and you will see that overwhelming majority spell it Cancun. The name of the oldest and most populat tourism directory is Cancun Tips. I've lived here since 1984, but I guess the opinion of people who may have visited occasionally (or never) has greater weight than ours. Jules Siegel 17:55, 13 November 2006 (UTC)


 * the official name of the city is cancún,


 * the official name of the city is the Municipio de Benito Juárez and Cancún (note the capital "C") is one of its districts.


 * this os how the mexican government and local municipality spell it, what some gift shop or hotel does is irrelevant,


 * Cancun Tips is a publication with a circulation in the millions annually.


 * cancún is in spanish and in spanish it is spelled canún not cancun friend.


 * You keep repeating "in Spanish." That's my point. In Cancun itself, Cancun is spelled with an accent when used in Spanish and usually spelled without the accent when used in English.


 * lack of the accent is due to lazyness, ignorance, lack of know how of how to inter the "´" on a computer, careless foreign enterprises, mispellings, mexicans romanticising accentless english much in the same way we add accents on everything from café and powerâde to mötley crüe, and lastly it is commonly taught accross latin america that its fine to omit accents when writing in all caps.


 * All of the above is true to some degree but irrelevant. I am talking about usage in Cancun. Using accents in foreign words in English is a style issue and does not follow any general rules. For a long time, many foreign words, such as cafe, were not accented. In recent years, it has been much more common to use the accents, but it depends on the style guide you follow.


 * your opinion based on your place of residence for the last 23 years is original research and is inadmissable as far as WP goes.


 * Not true. Original research is acceptable if it is factual and can be verified. See my talk page for an editor's opinion on that.


 * even Alaska Airlines adds  in  the states spell it that way. and the most important fact of all it mostly matters how the government spells the name of the city,


 * In Spanish. You'll note that if you visit the Cancun government page, the URL is spelled without the accent, because that is the correct Internet usage in order to avoid browser problems. Wikipedia, of course, uses the accent in the URL.


 * much in the same way it matters if mario lopez writes his name without an accent on the o and juan ramón jiménez does write accents on the o and e in his names.T ALK•Q R C2006•¢ʘñ†®¡ß§ 05:00, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * You are basing your opinions on Spanish publication style, with which you have some familiarity. I'm basing mine on local English style, with which I have great familiarity, and English style in general, an area in which I am a professional with more than forty years experience in major publications. But thanks for offering your advice. You are trying to be helpful. The issue is moot because the Wikipedia style is to use the accent in Cancun. I don't agree with it, but I don't agree with a lot of the decisions around here, many of which are the consensus of the ignorant who overrule the experts.Jules Siegel


 * Page should be titled under popular usage (not just local) in the English language (re: not Spanish). Period.--Львівське (talk) 21:05, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Sister cities
Perhaps a list of sister cities should be included? I know that Wichita, Kansas is one... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.98.207.36 (talk) 15:51, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I see this was added, but without context it is quite weird to see Witchita Kansas as a sister city. What is a sister city? Seems bizarre. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.129.78.183 (talk) 00:12, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Spanish version of article has more coverage than English version of article
The Spanish version of the Cancún article has more coverage than the English version. So can a professional translator please expand this article with text translated from its Spanish counterpart? Thanks. Jim856796 (talk) 00:09, 28 February 2011 (UTC)


 * The English page used to be much more complete but it was vandalized by over-zealous editors who removed a great deal of information that was valid but not fully sourced. Among the items were the origins of the resort (financed by the Mexican government) and the number of visitors it gets (estimated at three million annually, but a lot more if you count passengers arriving at Cancun International Airport, about half of whom go on to the Riviera Maya resorts south of Cancun. On the current page, the information drugs is not accurate. Cancun is not a transshipment point. Almost all drug shipment has taken place in the unpopulated southern district of the state of Quintana Roo. It's not clear how much is still going on. Drug battles are about control of the local market, including tourists. I used to contribute to the page, but I got tired of dealing with ignorant people. Many items on this page derive from my book, the Cancun User's Guide, even some that are now tagged as citation needed. The Spanish page is much more informative because the people who contribute to it respect and -- in some cases -- love Cancun and are proud of its history. 	Jules Siegel (talk) 15:35, 15 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't speak no language but English, therefore, I can't talk any Spanish. By professional translator, I meant a Wikipedia editor who is on the List of Spanish-to-English translators available. I am not on that list.Jim856796 (talk) 20:51, 24 March 2011 (UTC)


 * The Spanish "translation" is laughably bad. It looks as if it might have been done by Google Translate. The decline of the Cancun page now descends into the abyss. Sorry to be so harsh, but this is really pathetic. Jules Siegel (talk) 13:36, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Hotel reviews
Hey everyone! I think we should include Hotel reviews here in the "talk" page. I would like to actually see them in the article itself, but I am sure there are bunch of super-wiki dudes who would disagree. So, lets put our hotel reviews here! It will totally be helpful to everyone going to CancuN! I aint been there yet, so I would REALLY like to know a good joint for an all-inclusive, etc.... Which place got the best drinks?!?!?!?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.206.138.33 (talk) 03:17, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a travel guide (see WP:NOTGUIDE. Wikipeterproject (talk) 21:39, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Jules Siegel
Despite the fact that Cancun is a major Mexican city with a population of over a half-million people, this article is a travesty. It bears no resemblance to a standard Wikipedia "city" article, which would have sections about the city's demographics, culture, and a number of other things. Instead, it is almost entirely the work of one man, Jules Siegel, who has worked in the publications industry for over 40 years and has lived in Cancun since 1983, a fact that he has repeated multiple times on the Talk page and has even had the gall to post in the article itself! Despite the fact that he works in the tourism industry, he somehow thinks that he is capable of writing an article on Cancun that does not read like a travel brochure. I wish to reassure him that he is not. I do not care to read about all-inclusive hotels that offer "40% discounts on tours to the Mayan ruins" on Wikipedia- if I would like to know what type of discount my hotel offers on tours to the Mayan ruins, I will pick up one of his publications or visit his website. I don't doubt that Jules Siegel knows a lot about Cancun, but he knows nothing about Wikipedia and has no business writing an article for Wikipedia.

This article should be completely rewritten. Articles on resort cities will seldom be perfect, but the Acapulco article isn't terrible, and articles for cities like Laguna Beach and Newport Beach (for example) are far more acceptable. 168.233.1.6 (talk) 18:17, 12 August 2008 (UTC) Paul

Reply

I did not write the Cancun page, but I did contribute to it. I have had no association of any kind with the tourism industry for many years. I did not include any tourism information in my contributions. My book about Cancun is almost entirely devoted to its history and culture, with a small proportion of tourism-related recommendations. It would be helpful if you actually read it before indulging in ignorant speculation. If you wish to add material on demographics, culture and so on to the Cancun article, please do so, but I don't think it's necessary for you to attack me personally. Jules Siegel (talk) 12:27, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Counterreply

Your name appears in this article 8 times. Do you realize how absurd that is? It would be one thing if you included any semblance of a citation- even if you were citing your own work, which is still dubious- but your idea of a citation is referring to yourself in the third person. If you'd like to use "Cancun, Fantasy of Bankers" as a source, please cite it. 168.233.254.6 (talk) 18:41, 13 August 2008 (UTC) Paul


 * I agree with Paul, referencing oneself is pretty silly at best, pretty sleazy at worst. 201.166.23.47 (talk) 03:52, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Translating Cancun
This is an issue that I could tackle, but I am frankly put off by absurd attacks such as the one above. I've limited myself to deleting the erroneous translation. The exact meaning of Cancun is not well-defined, but there is no scholarly support for "Snake's Nest," which is rather demeaning and inaccurate. Can does mean snake (as in Kukulcan, the so-called Plumed Serpent) but cun does not mean nest. It means something like basin (in the geographical sense) or site or place of. I cover this in my book. My opinions are based on the most rigorous scholarly evidence and analysis. I could add some of my findings to the Cancun page, but it would require opening a new section or sub-section, perhaps under History, because there are a number of persuasive translations. I am not inclined to do so because it will involve considerable work and I can expect to be attacked on entirely specious grounds. I might also be accused of original research, a topic I discuss on my Talk page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jules Siegel (talk • contribs) 11:28, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

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Reinstate my images
This edit here a user removed three of my images from an already existing gallery under false accusations that I'm adding all my images and that they are for self promotion, both are false. The three images I added depicted areas of Cancun that were not already depicted. Can we undo that removal? Matthew T Rader (talk) 00:32, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Quantity of image
Let's get some input on the amount of images. I feel like this article has way too many images in relationship to the meat in the article. I've trimmed down a couple, per WP:GALLERY. I'd like to reach a consensus on just how much pictures we should have. Graywalls (talk) 07:27, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
 * We could definitely trim off the majority of the images in the climate section, as they actively make the article less readable. Two photos max per section would be good, especially given how short the article is. puggo (talk) 16:59, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

AGREE, no more from now on, just the necessary ones. --Sinkplil (talk) 02:20, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
 * So, why did you add a bunch?, if you're agreeing here, dropping in a 9 photo gallery in archaeological section is opposite of what you're agreeing with. Graywalls (talk) 04:22, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Image quantity isn't a very relevant article's thing. --Sinkplil (talk) 04:34, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
 * , your editing on the article contradicts the position you're taking given that you just suggested add no more. Per WP:GALLERY, adding a pile of images is not the proper style. Graywalls (talk) 04:45, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Copyvio
I reverted the addition of a block of copyrighted text; see User talk:201.128.20.105. -- Infrogmation 00:52, 26 September 2004 (UTC)

Since when is Cancun an island?
Since when is Cancun an island? Sure the tourist zone or "hotel zone" was built on what used to be an island, but the town of Cancun has been around for quite some time and has an approximate population of over 500,000 people in 2006. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Myfrogger (talk • contribs) 05:35, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Pics and information needed
The articl is missing Demographic and Culture sections — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.149.103.113 (talk) 19:11, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Map of Cancun
I have created a google map of Cancun for visitors. You can see it here : Map of Cancun — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.32.196.26 (talk) 04:08, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Puerto Cancun
En la entrada de Puerto Cancun, hay torres que estan construyendo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.153.172.47 (talk) 16:19, 17 April 2015 (UTC)