Talk:Candace Gingrich

Pronouns
An IP editor has repeatedly tried to replace the "they" pronouns in this article with "she" pronouns. Wikipedia's standard is to use the gender identity that the subject professes, and the pronouns generally reflect that. In this case, as mentioned in the article, the subject prefers "they". Given that several editors have undone these attempts, the editor should discuss the matter here, and reach consensus before attempting to re-add that edit. --Nat Gertler (talk) 05:15, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

This is fine, but if using the singular they pronoun, the correct grammar is to use "are" and "were" with them rather than was and is as the article does. Please unlock the article so this amendment can be made, and assume good faith. Syxxpackid420 (talk) 13:45, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I just undid your change; you were changing the verbs in places where the singular pronoun was not being used. This is not correct grammar. See examples in Singular they such as "Everyone loves their mother." --Nat Gertler (talk) 14:48, 17 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Is there a source for the use of gender-neutral pronouns? Should the first use of such be cited? It might help prevent / help cut short edit warring? Cheers Jim1138 (talk) 19:36, 3 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Source:
 * Per MOS:IDENTITY prefers gender-neutral pronouns. "Their", "they", etc. in place of "her", "she", etc. should be used on Wikipedia. Jim1138 (talk) 21:32, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I doubt that this will have any impact on the edit warrior. I'm used to seeing similar things on they-pronouned and trans pages; it's not based in policy. --Nat Gertler (talk) 22:25, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

As of the time of this comment, this is still occacionally a style issue in this article (see ). I'm just noting here that the WP:ESSAY WP:GNL includes the following: "There is no Wikipedia consensus either for or against the singular they. Though some uses of they with a singular antecedent or referent are well established, some uses remain contentious, and style advice varies." Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 09:27, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
 * That section of that essay is addressing specifically "their" being used as a generic pronoun, i.e., cases where we do not know the specific individual being discussed. That's not the matter in uses on this page. --Nat Gertler (talk) 13:45, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
 * That section is addressing specifically "their", etc. being used as described in the Singular they article (wikilinked there), which says in part, "In the early 21st century, use of singular they with known individuals emerged for people who do not identify as male or female, ..." (wikilinked there as here). AFAICS, that applies here insofar as the GNL essay asserting that there is no WP consensus either for or against such usage in this article. This is getting a bit far down this rabbit hole for me, though. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 18:31, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Place of birth
I have deleted from the infobox a claim about the birthplace of Gingrich, as it was sourced to this site, which appears to be a self-published site and thus ineligible for use in a biography of a living person. The text appears there appears largely to be a copy of the text in this promotional document for a Houston LGBT pride event in 1996, only there the birthplace is listed as Baltimore, so we cannot even use it as non-controversial information. It has been in the article so long (added in 2009 by ) that we have to be wary of any newer sources that cite Harrisburg at the birthplace, as they may have gotten the information from us. --Nat Gertler (talk) 14:23, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I have not put this into the article, but I note that says that Candace and Newt were both born in Harrisburg PA, crediting that information as "Courtesy of Candace-Gingrich-Jones". Wtmitchell  (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 18:24, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
 * In Candice Gingrich writes: "For the summer, I moved back home to Harrisburg." Wtmitchell  (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 18:42, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Looks like a good source! Add away! --Nat Gertler (talk) 19:30, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Archived pronoun conversation
The below archive is a copy of a conversation which took place on Wtmitchell's talk page in 2019 (link). I'm including it here for reference. WanderingWanda🐮👑 (talk) 01:28, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

This is the second time I have been told off for an edit that was purely technical and non-vandalizing. Candace Gingrich prefers they/them pronouns and it is the policy of Wikipedia to refer to people by the pronouns they prefer. The only other edit I did was change a reference to their first name to their last name, which is also in accordance with the policy I believe, but I could be mistaken. Please respond on my talkpage or respond here but notify me on my talkpage. 108.245.173.217 (talk) 09:46, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
 * My revert changed more than I intended. I've redone it to revert only the change from "her senior" to "their senior". You changed an assertion saying that Newt Gingrich "is more than 20 years her senior" to one saying that he is "is more than 20 years their senior". The word "they" in your version would refer to the couple, Newt and Candice, and the meaning of the sentence after your change would be that Newt is more than 20 years older than that couple, of which he, Newt, is one of the two members. That is nonsensical. Apologies for the first too-broad revert and thanks for calling it to my attention. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 10:03, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you. :) 108.245.173.217 (talk) 10:13, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. I fixed the dead link for the source cited in support of the assertion in the article saying that Candice "uses they/them pronouns" and, as I could not find support for that assertion in there, I added a fv tag at that point in the article. I googled around a bit and found this source which has some seemingly relevant information, but which does not quite support the assertion as it appears in the article. At this point, I have not further edited the article beyond placing the tag. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 10:50, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Also, I see this, which says that Candice says that "using preferred gender pronouns is less about extending courtesy than of practicing basic human dignity." That article, however, does not detail what Candice's pronoun preferences might be for others to use in referring to Candice as a person (or to Candice and Newt, which is the point of all of this). The article does contain a list of some additional options for expressing gender neutrality in the use of pronouns, but does not say whether Candice prefers to have others use the pronouns on that list. That article I linked here earlier The article at the repaired HRC link quotes Candice as having said, “You should respect how someone wants to be referred to” but, though that article does contain some information abut Candice's preferences when referring to Bradley Manning (now Chelsea), I don't find any information in there about Candice's preferences regarding pronoun use by others in referring to Candice. I'm wondering how much WP:original research there is here abut that. Wtmitchell  (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 11:07, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
 * The HRC link is dead. I just saw in the article itself that Gingrich prefers they/them pronouns and Gingrich is genderqueer, which usually (but not always!) means they/them pronouns. Honestly, I am just going to leave the article alone. I am writing something for a course I'm taking and my DSPD-riddled brain will probably call me to sleep soon. 108.245.173.217 (talk) 11:14, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I see that this edit, which introduced the assertion regarding Candice's preferences re the use of gender-specific pronouns, was made back in 2017 by . That editor does not have an active talk page and has not been an active editor since 2017. I've pinged that editor here, and am hoping for a response. If I see no response, I may re-edit the Candace Gingrich article to remove all this insufficiently supported confusion re preferences about gender-specific pronoun use. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 11:30, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Preference re gender-specific pronoun use
There has recently been some discussion regarding this at user talk:Wtmitchell, which has caused me to believe at this point that the talk of and focus on gender-specific pronoun use in this article is likely the result of WP:original research. Please see that discussion there. Please make any further comment here. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 11:47, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
 * (2 years later...) There's now an article that states Gingrich's pronouns clearly: . I've added a sentence about their pronouns to the article. WanderingWanda🐮👑 (talk) 11:23, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

New job
I don't have time to write this up at the moment, but they subject appears to have a new job. --Nat Gertler (talk) 18:44, 31 July 2019 (UTC)