Talk:Cane Corso/Archive 1

Approval for Image
Hello, I will try to get an approval from the person who gave me the photo on my website and place it on Wiki (although this might only happen after the Holidays).

I also added a few phrases to the temperament paragraph and an external link towards some specific Cane Corso training techniques.

If there is any problem please let me know!

Regards,

Michael THe dog trainer 22:19, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Appearance discrepancies
The appearance section states that the ICCF and FCI standards are different, whereas the ICCF has now largely accepted the FCI/SACC standard as the correct standard. This may change of course... but for the moment it makes this breed appear less 'settled' than it truly is... In particular the height published on the ICCF site is identical to the heights published by the FCI.

I just edited the appearance section and temperament sections - in the first to adjust the sizes to reflect what is in the standard (sorry now it looks a little silly as the differences in height are very slight) and fixed some spelling errors, finally adding the tail cropping specifications. In the temperament section I modified the paragraph, making it more formal but (I hope!) maintaining the same meaning and stress.

Let me know if you don't like something, in particular I think changing the appearance section to de-stress the 'differences between standards' I think wuold be a good idea, as really there are now only 2 standards; FCI and ICCF. These are now VERY close - current ICCF manoeverings aside. The old FIC standard is now mostly forgotten and Breber's writings are marginalised for the most part. We are mostly talking the same Corso language...

Bassclef 10:22, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Article quality October 24, 2006
--Oden 16:02, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The section titled "History" with the text: "below quoted from the Cane Corso Preservation Society website" could be a copyright violation and needs an extensive rewrite, see Copyright violations.
 * The external links probably needs to be pared down, see External links
 * The article lacks references. Perhaps some of the external links are actually references?

Proposing some new changes
Wiki has (somewhat correctly) identified the new expanded 'links' section as a little bit spammy. Before I go and make changes, I thought I would discuss them:

First - Wiki wants references. I think the Standard section should be changed to a summary of the standard, followed with discrepancies between the submitted AKC standard and FCI standard highlighted, with a reference to the AKC and FCI standard documents right there in the section.

Second, the picture. Surely a picture of Basir would be a good idea? If not Basir, then some recognised champ or something? Basir is dead, so a picture should be public domain yes?

Third, the links section. Thank you for all the links, but they are a little confusing as they all go to the same place. I think that one link to the canecorso.com site is plenty.

I will wait for some feedback on here, but will make the changes later this month if I don't get any.

Oh - I also wanted to add that the picture gallery is a wonderful idea, thank you, but again it probably needs to include the different (and far more common) colours of Corsos... I understand that this is uploaded by these dog's owners, which makes it copyright free - but I am sure we can all add some of our own!

Bassclef 15:01, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Gallery & External links
Gallery photos have most recently been the target of deletion by Zoedevita (who may also be known as 68.198.8.214). This person has also repeatedly deleted the canecorso.com external link under "General Information" and replaces it with a link to her own personal dog breeder website. I have been reversing her changes and notified her of Wikipedia's guidelines that do not permit external links to personal web pages. Two Wikipedia editors have also been reversing her changes and notified her on the talk page for 68.198.8.214 so hopefully her vandalism will stop immediately. A big thank you to the editors for their kind assistance!

Bassclef, I agree that the main photo for the Cane Corso page should be Basir. If not, perhaps the illustration of a Cane Corso used by FCI in their standard would be acceptable. Another alternative would be to feature a highly-accomplished and widely recognized Italian Multi Champion.

Canecorso 04:47, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

CORRECTION!!
First and foremost I am Zoe DeVita and do not hide behind an alias or phony IP’s. Canecorso aka Leilani Souza from California Cane Corso is a breeder and created canecorso.com to make money and sell puppies. It is a farse that she has an informational site. What it is a “FRONT” to make it “APPEAR” like there is informational content when in reality people pay her to advertise their kennel for the sale of our beloved breed. All you have to do is go on the webpage and it is blatently advertised on the front page along with breeders willing to pay her a ridiculous amount of money. That is her “motive” for her internet wars against anyone that tries to add a picture or other “valid” informational content to the Cane Corso page.

Canecorso aka Leilani Souza took it upon herself to delete my link to my history page that has valid information and beautiful pictures depicting the history of the Cane Corso. It is Canecorso behind all the deletes and she is trying to pin it on me so that my link will not be allowed there.

I call to all for help!! Zoe DeVitaZoedevita 14:55, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

UPDATE
The following applies mostly to users Canecorso and Zoedevita:

I have begun to think that perhaps I was a bit too hasty before. Looking through this article it has begun to seem as if it is more like an advertisement. The entire history section is pure plagiarism: it violates Wikipedia standards on copyrighted work which means that it being there, Wikipedia can be sued for possible copyrights infrigement. I have removed it. Also, I have removed the majority of the external links because they also violated these wiki standards:


 * 1) Sites were for profit and links were spam-like
 * 2) Language was not English (this is not the italian wiki)

But I have left www.canecorso.org because it seems to be the most informational and added another link.

The necessity for a Gallery section is debatable but please rewrite the History section. If you want, base it on the Cane Corso Preservation Society's manual but DO NOT copy and paste. If more problems arise I will direct the problem to Request for Comment -- User: (talk • contribs • count ) 18:53, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Facts Only, Period
Addressing Zoedevita's first sentence, I previously stated that Zoedevita "may also be known as 68.198.8.214" only because their actions were identical in repeatedly removing the CaneCorso.com link and my gallery photos and adding a link to Zoedevita's personal breeder website. It is a fact that I removed Zoedevita's link to her personal breeder website, not only in which her history page violates Wikipedia's copyright guidelines but links to personal breeder websites are not permitted. The link I removed was a link to her Italica Cane Corso website she uses to sell her puppies. Nothing personal against her, as I would have removed any link to any personal breeder website on this page, per Wikipedia's guidelines. It is also a fact that Zoedevita has repeatedly deleted not only the link to CaneCorso.com, but specifically all of my gallery photos as well. For the record, I have never placed a link here to my personal breeder website, California Cane Corso, and none of my gallery photos are in violation of Wikipedia's guidelines. Perhaps it is Zoedevita who might have something personal against me! Wikipedia is not the place for Zoedevita's personal allegations concerning me and/or my information website CaneCorso.com. This site was created for general breed information (just take a look at the comments/opinions posted by many viewers in the guestbook!) and it is no different than the CaneCorso.org site or other similar sites in the way that people pay for a puppy ad and people pay for a membership. This site also contains a Cane Corso Event Calendar, List of Breeders Worldwide (yes, Zoedevita is even on this list!), List of Cane Corso OFA Hip & Elbow Dysplasia Scores, Breed Rescue Information, Breed Standards in many different languages, Cane Corso Video Collection, List of Cane Corso Champions and Working Titles...need I go on? This page should not be a personal battleground for disputes or allegations like Zoedevita's accusatory paragraph above. It should be facts only, period. Canecorso 09:19, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Correction, Zoedevita
It is your OPINION only, not a FACT when you state "CaneCorso.com is a for-profit entity put in place to sell puppies or create a venue to do so." You have no clue what the website is truly about, but you have a right to your own opinion and the public can judge for themselves what they think about CaneCorso.com without you trying to make your OPINION a FACT.

FYI, viewers are also administrators at Wikipedia, so again you are misrepresenting your OPINION to be a FACT. If you have read Wikipedia's guidelines, you would know that the link you placed to your personal breeder website is in violation and can be removed by anyone here, including me.

You are wrong again in that it is your OPINION only not a FACT that I am "trying to create a monopoly for her for profit entity and took it upon herself to police this website and cut out competition". Again, we are all administrators here at Wikipedia and your personal breeder website is not "competition" it was a "violation". Unlike your website, CaneCorso.com is NOT a personal breeder website, so it's not even in the same category!

Let me explain so hopefully you can understand:

Your personal breeder website "Italica Cane Corso" and my personal breeder website "California Cane Corso" are both websites created specifically to market puppies for sale. I believe you got your first Cane Corso in 2003 and you say you have had 2 litters; I got my first Cane Corso in 2001 and I have had 3 litters. It doesn't matter how many litters we have, or what pages we are placing a link to - links to personal breeder websites are simply NOT allowed here and that is why I removed yours. If I had placed a link to California Cane Corso on this page, anyone (including you!) would have the right to remove it as well.

I am glad you state that you don't have any personal resentment towards me, as this surely did not seem the case when you repeatedly deleted specifically only my gallery photos! These photos were not in violation of Wikipedia's guidelines and you have not given any reason as to why you were deleting them, so you get my point. I have no problem with you (like I said earlier, I would delete any personal breeder website link placed on this page) and I hope that you do not take offense to me correcting your FACTS to be simply your OPINIONS here.

Canecorso 20:52, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

A request for calm
Ladies, a little calm required here. Canecorso/Leilani, your website links were remarked on some time ago as being rather "spammy", by myself and the admin above. The website is clearly a profit making website, and the guidelines forbid it. That doesn't make linking to Zoe's site any better, of course. So I think it better to leave them both off. I would recommend www.canecorso.org.uk as a non-American English-language information site, but will wait for feedback before adding it. The Corso is of course very strongly represented in Europe and the ex-Eastern bloc, and representing that is important.

We need to get a history section written here - one that encompasses the most probable 'origins' and also remarks on the fairly recent 'recovery' operation. No need to get political, broad brush strokes only. Any points we can agree on for a potted history?

Also, the 'alternative name' of Sicilian Branchiero is a little unfair - most would say that is a different breed that is nearly now extinct. I am not saying that there isn't any SBR blood in mordern Corsos, but that SBRs are not Corsos. It's unfair on the poor SBRs!

Finally, I am changing the ICCF reference in the main text to CCCA, as that's reflected in reality (again, political machinations are not really wanted here).

Bassclef 13:45, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

OK - money where mouth is time
I added a good deal of content today. A short history section, a little more accurate colour description, and replaced the clunky and somewhat inaccurate appearance section with a more streamlined one. My history is short, but it's completely original so no claims of plagarism here. I would like to footnote some of the claims, and discuss what other things could go into the history.

I feel temperament needs a little update too - but don't want to re-write the whole article! Things like separation anxiety are more home based than breed based - plus how do we say "These dogs are NOT EASY, NOT for first time dog owners" without sounding like we are dissing the breed? Dominant by nature is extremely common in these dogs, as I think we all know. Extremely protective is another. Proximity guarding is built into them like blinking is built into me!

But again, I don't want to do that without some input.

And also, I don't want to be a pain, but the main picture should show the whole body of the Corso instead of just the head. And I don't want to be flamed, but the dog in the picture isn't as representative as maybe I would like - parallel axes in the picture it would appear for instance... I talked about getting Basir in there - what are the copywrite issues?

Bassclef 14:41, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Recent edit on docking cropping issue
Sebastianocossiacastiglioni, apologies but I removed your reference to the tail docking/ear cropping being unecessary. This article is about the Cane Corso, not about canine cosmetic surgery. I completely understand your argument, and partially support it, but this is not the place to discuss it - there is a page dedicated to docking/cropping already.

There were a couple additional edits I removed as well:

Italian Mastiff name issue - this is a valid point but it does not belong in appearance. How about we put it up at the top?

"Large lap dogs" - this could either be considered non-NPOV (it's definitely a point of view!!) and also "original research" if I start to get pedantic - but it definitely has no place in the temperament section. Clearly there are Corsos who ARE large lap-dogs, I have one myself. But the Corso temperament is FAR more complex and dangerous to be cast as a lap-dog in this flippant manner. My "lap dog" would happily attack a violent intruder - with the possibility of serious damage. Lap dog he isn't. Incredibly loving and cuddle-monster he is.

Finally, as it seems no one is complaining about my simple history - I am removing the cleanup tag (and the old text).

Bassclef 12:03, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Recent edits regarding breed restrictions/breed specific legislation
The un-credited edits recently made were really misleading, false and not helpful. I have commented them out for the time being. They stated that the Corso was listed on the UK DDA. This is simply false. They stated that Australia had banned imports of the Cane Corso, this is also false. Australia bans the import of the Tosa Inu, Dogo Argentino, Presa Canaria, American PBT and the Fila Brasileiro. They also stated that the Corso was on the Dublin Council's ban-list, this is also completely false. That list is made up of English Bull Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, American Pit Bull Terrier, Rottweiler, German Shepherd (Alsatian), Doberman, Rhodesian Ridgeback, Japanese Akita, Bull Mastiff, Japanese Tosa and Bandog.

PLEASE do not vandalise our entry!

Bassclef (talk) 11:46, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

I would not say the the Cane Corso is an "extremely large" dog. Please remove this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.237.142.7 (talk) 11:02, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

new history edits
Hi 24...would you mind using complete references for your edits instead of just the home page? The reference should go directly to the information which supports using it. I noticed you did that with akc and canecorso pages. Thanks Bob98133 (talk) 18:28, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Recent Changes
Where to begin. It looks like there has been some well-meaning, and some not-so-well meaning changes to the page lately. I have changed the text and reference for the standard comment on "nose" as we don't talk about noses in dogs except for the bit with nostrils in - it's muzzle. I also updated the reference to something a little more reference-worthy, the ENCI standard (in English for those who don't like non-English references). I also removed the DNA profiling information from the page because the reference was completely unsubstantiated. Also, this DNA data will be froma tiny, purely American sample and cannot be listed as fact until a study is done on specimens from it's origin. Finally, someone decided to say that the Neo was progenator (sic) of the Canis Pugnax. I have fixed this a little bit to ensure that it reads that the Canis Pugnax is progenitor of both the Corso and the Neo, not the other way around. Like normal, I also fixed some grammar and spelling.

Bassclef (talk) 11:06, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Temperament Section
to who ever put in the section " the cane corso is easy to train" is incorrect, and may lead the wrong type of owner to purchase this breed. The fact is the Cane Corso will challenge, and takes a strong owner. It is not a dog ANY responsible breeder ( key word responsible) will recommend to a novice dog owner. Please don't make this breed sound like a lab or golden retriever, THEY are easy to train!

I would like to update the temperament section. It's a little weird presently, and I think the recent change "Most American ... don't conform to the standard..." (paraphrased) is both opinion (citation is almost impossible - there are no impartial studies done) and slightly inflammatory.

I recommend we discuss the original characteristics and then possibly discuss where "pet Corsos" might differ from this - as selected for. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bassclef (talk • contribs) 11:49, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the above. I personally was insulted by the quote from citation 3 regarding the Cane Corsos in America. I reviewed the source website and there is no data to support the statement and is indicative of a personal opinion by the owner of the website for what purpose I do not know. I propose at the very least that that portion be taken out. --Akane00 (talk) 07:15, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Organisational links
ThemFromSpace - you deleted various links to Corso organisations around the world, citing WP:EL, which I quote:

"Links to websites of organizations mentioned in an article – unless they otherwise qualify as something that should be linked or considered.[2][3]"

I don't see how they qualify for that, as the topic is the Corso, not SACC, BCCS, etc. ,especially as these sites would be places for further research on the topic. I will reinstate next week - but I would like to have a conversation first. Bassclef (talk) 16:53, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Bite article
I added (and just now restored) a blurb referencing the New York Times about a boy mauled by one of these dogs. Some may not wish this information included in an article, but I think it highly valuable for anyone researching prospective pets. Nickrz (talk) 18:27, 9 June 2011 (UTC)


 * That is a silly thing to mention, the dog was breed for violence, citing the multiple fatal attacks from this breed in recent years would be like mentioning a certain lab fetching a dog. Killing is instinct for this dog, that is common knowledge. Please take your "anti-dog bite" bias else where, some dogs were maid to kill just accept that.Mantion (talk) 11:21, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

etymology
the name Cane Corso seems to me MUCH more likely to come from similar root words as cursorial or the vert "to course" which is run or hunt, not courtyard or "guard", as the article states, uncited, in the lede. These are running hunting breeds ("catch dogs") as stated later in the article. 68.175.78.20 (talk) 17:06, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

Italian mastiff
Italian mastiffOur Italian mastiff good for apartment living? Drwilolabad (talk) 19:55, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

Attack of July 2014
I have just reverted the addition of information about a fatal attack which has just taken place. I appreciate a reference is supplied but earlier a different news source stated the dogs were Bullmastiffs. I have no allegiance to either breed - I simply feel Wikipedia is not for 'rolling news' and it would be far better to wait until matters settle as news sources do not have a good track record in correctly identifying breeds concerned in initial reports in such tragic circumstances. SagaciousPhil  -  Chat  18:24, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

The section on the temperament of this dog appears to be obtained directly from the AKC website, as do most sections on this dog and all breeds listed in Wikipedia. The temperament section of this breed needs immediate edit. A better, and more accurate source would be the dog breed associations. If an association, such as the Cane Corsos Association of America is going to add a caveat on the temperament of their breed then why wouldn’t Wikipedia, which is a more relied upon source for information by the general public consider this? ````RingoSage```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ringosage (talk • contribs) 15:14, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes, the temperament section of this breed needs immediate edit, quite so. And the dog breed associations should of cours be used as a source too, nothing to object on that. Hafspajen (talk) 19:06, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I have removed the close paraphrasing/copy/pastes which all appear to have been introduced fairly recently by a (no doubt) well intentioned editor.  SagaciousPhil   -  Chat  10:07, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Dogs that killed Michigan man will be euthanized —Pawyilee (talk) 03:58, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

As far Wikipedia knows, the following people have been killed by Cane Corsos in the United States: Jayelin Graham (4 years), Dawn Jergens (76), Craig Sytsma (46). Ernie Assad (82) was killed by three dogs, including one Cane Corso, but it was determined that dog's role was relatively minor compared to the other two dogs, which were not so described. In the Klonda Richey (57) attack, some reports describe the two dogs as being "part Cane Corso". So there have been at least three to five people killed by Cane Corsos in the USA that we know of. Chrisrus (talk) 05:24, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Wow! I had no idea that they were so aggressive toward people. My wife was considering getting a Corso but after reading this, we're having second thoughts about it. Attila911 (talk) 02:51, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

An insurance company?
Since when did we regard insurance companies as an authority on dog breeds? I've removed some nonsense about the Cane Corso being the most popular dog breed in Europe. It isn't. In Italy, its home country, it is the seventh-most popular breed, according to this Focus article, based on data published by the ENCI. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 22:53, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Agreed, I am removing some more of this nonsense. Far too much of it appears on Wikipedia's dog breeds.  William Harris Canis lupis track.svg talk Canis lupis track.svg 10:26, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

Please stop remake Cane Corso
I don't speak English, because im from Bulgaria.If you want to make sure you join the Cane Corso bulgaria group, all the dogs are over 60 kilograms as well as in the world groups.I breed the breed and have a record female dog it is 81 pounds because she is pregnant. Before she got pregnant she was 73kg. Cane Corso Maik (talk) 20:28, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Catch dog?
Hello, thanks for the cleanup of this article - it has been a long time coming. The article is tagged as a "catch dog" - do you believe that there is any evidence of this?  William Harris talk  08:34, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
 * , although I did a quick basic clean-up here, I haven't really looked in detail at this page or the sources for it – I'm trying to work through the main Italian dog breeds, but haven't yet got to this one. I'll answer your question later if I may. Meanwhile, anything that's unsourced can of course be challenged or removed. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 08:41, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
 * A most commendable effort! I shall remove the tag - if anyone finds a RS for it then I am happy for it to return. When you get around to reviewing this one, please give me a call and I will see what the gene sequencers tell us. (My "big girl" is part Cane Corso, says her DNA test, so I have more than a passing interest in this article).  William Harris Canis lupis track.svg talk Canis lupis track.svg 08:49, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Temperament section missing?
Virtually all other Wikipedia articles on dog breeds have a section describing the breed's temperament. This article should be no exception. Good and bad both need to be covered — Preceding unsigned comment added by Down time (talk • contribs) 04:05, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Feel free to make a start.  William Harris Canis lupis track.svg talk Canis lupis track.svg 11:19, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Educational article with video
Hey people, I found very interesting article about Cane Corso with awesome educational video - https://chihulife.com/cane-corso/, maybe I should create external links paragraph and add it there? here is a link to the video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo136go0Z8AMark.barkan (talk) 08:59, 9 September 2020 (UTC)