Talk:Cannabis (drug)/Tobacco discussion

Researchers fear Big Tobacco, drag feet on burning temperature studies

 * It has been known for decades that a hot-burning overdose cigaret burns at 1500 degrees F (860 C) at the tip when a victim is "puffing" on it. A vaporizer, the best alternative but expensive to buy, heats herb to a subcombustion temperature of about 385° F.  All that remains to do is a comparative study of the temperature when properly (1/16" mesh) sifted herb burns in a quarter-inch enclosed screened crater while user tokes as slowly as possible on a long extension tube (maybe 420°?)--  compared with that of bigger diameters-- dime, nickel, quarter etc.-- and with the hot-burning overdose "joint" (3/16"-diam., 1/4" diam. etc., "blunt", cigaret.  (Many cigaret smokers, trained by overdose advertising and peer example, routinely suck hard on every "puff" and simply have not yet learned to suck slow and manage the burning temperature; this not only kills 5.4 million a year on the tobacco side but it is also a major cause of RPF-- riefer performance failure.)--tokerdesigner, March 2008(revised)


 * Not certain what exactly you're getting at here, but if you're suggesting cigarette smoke is more harmful because it burns hotter you're sorely mistaken. In fact, the higher heat more completely oxidises the tars and other organic compounds as compared to a slower and less hot burn often used when smoking marijuana.  This reduces the creation of potentially carcinogenic substances created during incomplete combustion.  Burning of lungs from cigarette smoke is not a common problem I'm afraid.  The whole argument pitting MJ smoke and tobacco smoke against one another is plain stupid.  They are not comparable, because smoking habits and techniques vary significantly between either type of smoker.  Studies have frequently shown higher concentrations of toxic substances in unfiltered marijuana smoke.  But tobacco smokers typically consume much greater quantities of smoke, more than compensating for this.  Therefore attempting to rationalise the habitual consumption of unfiltered smoke from MJ by contrasting with tobacco usage clearly shows a lack of understanding of the chemistry and usage habits involved, and a distinctly biased POV.  Halogenated (talk) 03:34, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * "Riefer performance failure" referred to above means a "drug" effect caused by hot burning overdose smoking procedures but not by itself evidence of cannabis being a "drug". (4 Sep 2008)


 * Cannabis users may be more aware of reducing burning temperature because they have a strong financial incentive to avoid wasting THC. But if all smokers, including of tobacco, prioritized achieving a lower burning temperature, less burning would be necessary to receive the desired quantity of ingredients.  Carbon monoxide from the extra unneeded burning with a harmful smoking method is the most cited and far away the most harmful of all toxic ingredients in smoke, its impact often overlooked in discussions such as this because relevant to cardiovascular illness rather than to lung cancer.(March 2008)


 * You don't get it - hotter means more complete combustion, means less CO and more CO2. CO is produced from low temperature burning, along with benzopyrenes and other polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons.  Cigarette smokers, much like many joint smokers, are not just smoking to get "the desired quantity of ingredients".  It is a socialised activity.  Puffing away at a slow burning joint is much worse than a power smoke pulling lots of air into the burning material.  Halogenated (talk) 13:29, 29 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Puffing away at a slow burning joint: no, please, that is not what I meant at all. I mean put 25 mg. of sifted herb in quarter-inch (6 mm.) diameter screened crater and suck as slow as possible, an art akin to yoga which many cigaret addicts with their infantile 1-second puff have never learned at all (but what a change of world we'll get when they finally do).  By increasing the amount of THC obtained the user can greatly reduce the amount of herb consumed, reducing all the smoking-related toxicities (as you noted, cigaret addicts smoke huge amounts more).--4 Sep 2008

Researchers who find the truth about comparative burning temperature and try to publish it might risk losing funding, accreditation, tenure, etc. If someone does-- and the temperature difference may be dramatic!!-- the Wikipedia article on Cannabis smoking (or whatever title) should hurriedly report it. It is one thing to proudly boast that you are trying to "change the world" (slogan offered to fundgivers but not to editors?) and another thing to hide timidity behind slogans like "Neutral point of view" and "Objectivity" while the No. 1 genocide in world history "rolls" on. (See WHO Feb. 2008 estimate: 5.4 million deaths caused by cigaret smoking.Tokerdesigner (talk) 16:25, 11 March 2008 (UTC)


 * If you have a problem with Wikipedia, don't contribute. NPOV and objectivity are the basis of a rational society, and for wikipedia.  If you object, then go out like every other self-styled martyr and make your own highly biased account of reality through your own web page.  Wikipedia is not a forum for this.  Halogenated (talk) 13:29, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

My problem is not with Wikipedia but with the 5.4 million deaths per year from tobacco, caused in part by illegality of alternative herb cannabis (in this article, for example, defamed as a "drug"), in turn caused by the above-indicated failure to use the wonderful medium WP to instruct endangered smokers how to smoke less dangerously (or even better, vaporize instead).--tokerdesigner 4 Sep 2008


 * Then find the right article, and contribute meaningfully and objectively there. This one is not about tobacco, or deaths related to smoking tobacco.  It is about the use of cannabis as a drug.  This often means smoking it for most people.  This is not a how-to-article, or a warning on the dangers of smoking.  Just the facts Ma'am. Halogenated (talk) 03:29, 26 September 2008 (UTC)