Talk:Cantaloupe

Untitled
Australia does not universally call this a rockmelon, it is cantaloupe in most southern states, this is a strong cultural point of contention and interstate rivalry. The intro claiming it is called rock melon in Australia cites no references. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.198.111.245 (talk) 01:42, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Nutrition and Medicinal Info
It would be interesting if someone knows about the nutritional value of this fruit as well as any pharmaceutical or industrial use derived from its byproducts such as the rind or seeds. --98.172.21.130 (talk) 22:39, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Size matters

 * Cantaloupes may range in size from 7-12 cm in diameter, but typically exceed 12 cm in diameter.

Um, this doesn't make much sense. What is the point of saying they range from 12-15 cm if they typically exceed 12 cm? In my experience most cantaloupes are well over 12 cm, which is the diameter of a standard CD or DVD. In fact, a 7 cm diameter cantaloupe would strike me as very small, as that's the size of a small apple. Maybe what was meant was 7-12 cm in radius (14-24 cm in diameter)? Or maybe 7-12 inches in diameter? Can someone who knows more about cantaloupes size clarify this? Nohat 07:50, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * Good point: "in" has probably been switched to "cm". When you're sure, edit the entry. --Wetman 07:59, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Well, I checked Encyclopedia Britannica, which doesn't have an article on cantaloupes, but discusses them in the "melon" article, although it didn't provide size information, although it said that melons range in mass from 1-4 kg. No help there. Checking Google next. Nohat 08:03, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Heraldry matters
Okay. No pics available on the web. So, could you tell us in words, what is the difference between a cantaloupe in nature and a cantaloupe on a coat-of-arms? --Blair P. Houghton 20:09, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Penicillin citation?
A mouldy cantaloupe in a Peoria market in 1941 was found to contain the best and highest quality penicillin after a world-wide search.

This is pretty interesting but a citation would make it riveting. Misterantithesis 01:25, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

^ Mary Bellis. "The History of Penicillin". Inventors. About.com. Retrieved 2007-10-30. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.136.254.162 (talk) 12:25, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Cantaloupe vs. Musk Melon
The distinction needs to be made, and seems to have been made kind of sloppily in this article. It is unclear which the article is supposed to be on at a given time to me. Perhaps a distinctly broken up article? It seems unwise to me to move the musk melon stuff to its own article, since very few Americans know that what we buy are not cantaloupe. Notthe9 08:28, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC) Agreed. There is no such thing as North American cantaloupe. Its a musk melon. This widespread mistake needs to be addressed. Please see: http://www.answers.com/topic/cantaloupe pyster —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pyster (talk • contribs) 00:16, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Intro
"''A Cantaloupe, also cantaloup or rockmelon (Cucumis melo cantalupensis), is the North American name for a variety of muskmelon. "True cantaloupes are not netted, have deep grooves, a hard warty rind, and orange or green flesh. These are grown only in Europe where the population easily makes the distinction between muskmelons and cantaloupes" [1]. The muskmelons that most Americans call "cantaloupes" have a distinctly netted or webbed rind''"
 * Well, what a confusing way to start the article ... - Nat Krause 23:03, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

True Cantaloupes vs Musk Melons
"True" cantaloupes are Cucumis melo cantalupensis. In the period following the American Revolution, "French" was in - Americans copied French style. True cantaloupes are somewhat difficult to cultivate, though, so some enterprising folks musk melons (Cucumis melo reticulatus) as cantaloupes. So today, the typical American on the street will not recognize C melo cantalupensis at all, but will immediately recognize C melo reticulatus and confidently tell you it's a cantaloupe.

The true cantaloupe is much smaller than a musk melon. The size of 7-12cm given early in the article is correct - for cantalupensis. It's got a smooth, grey-green rind with green stripes - looks something like a very small, greyish watermelon. Its flesh is colored similarly to the musk melon and it's much sweeter.

The picture in the article is of a musk melon, not a true cantaloupe. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.140.68.107 (talk • contribs) 15:06, 7 December 2005 (UTC).


 * The transition didn't happen until the the turn of the twentieth century.  American literature prior to that time usually correctly makes the distinction.  The old American varieties of true cantaloupe were (and still are) larger than is current in Europe, darker in colour, wartier, and more deeply grooved (the grooves have all but disapeared in the modern European cultivars).  It would appear that, around 1890, orange-fleshed muskmelons began to supplant the old green-fleshed varieties (today only the orange ones are raised commercially).  In conjunction with the decline in cultivation of true cantaloupes, this led to confusion of the two melons in the public mind.  True cantaloupes are not commercially cultivated in the U.S., but several varieties (both old and new) can be had from some seed suppliers. -GSwift 04:06, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

This article mainly seems to deal with the "American" canteloupe, which, as I understand, is just a musk melon. But the article also seems to indicate that the "European" canteloupe is also musk melon. Yelocab 07:47, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * They are both "just" varieties of musk melon, yes. I think the article's coverage is pretty well split among the varieties. -- JHunterJ 13:04, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * According to the article Cucumis melo cantalupensis is the true cantaloupe where as Cucumis melo reticulatus is the rock melon.24.83.178.11 05:40, 25 April 2007 (UTC)BeeCier

Page split
One article dealing with two melons is very confusing. Thanks to the information above I now understand the difference, but I think it is worth splitting the article into Musk Melon/Rockmelon and Cantaloupe. -- d a r k li i g h t talk 13:36, 23 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I've tried to clean up the indications of the differences in the article while strengthening the idea that both varieters are cantaloupes (and both are muskmelons as well). I think splitting the page would not be helpful. -- JHunterJ 22:20, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Cuculoupe
I just removed a section from the page about cuculoupes, because that story seems to be debunked here:

http://www.lsuagcenter.com/en/communications/news/headline_news/Cuculoupe+Not+Real+After+All.htm

There is picture of real cantaloupe here http://www.victoryseeds.com/catalog/vegetable/melons/melon_nois_des_carmes.jpg


 * No it needs to go. The scintists who debunked it are much more reliable than the Associated Press, etc. Pollinator 02:48, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Here is some relevant discussion from user talk pages:


 * Copied from User talk:Leon7


 * Hello Pollinator: You recently deleted an edit I made on the Cucumber article regarding Cuculoupes.  Within the last week, this info was on the AP news service and was picked up by hundreds of news web sites, television and radio stations, etc.  I though that it would be of interest to the reader of the article because of it's unusual nature.  Your stated reason for the delete was, "rem nonsense "documented" only by pulp magazine."  I don't know what kind of documentation you are looking for on breaking news.  Obviously, it's too soon for it to hit the print magazines... yet.  But, Here's one from a New Orleans newspaper.    Here's one from CBS News.   I found at least 500 news stories of this on Google.  So what kind of documentation would you like to see?  I could not find anything in "pulp magazine" that was relevant, so I don't know what "nonsense" you are referring to.  I would, maybe understand it, if you were to say that it's not encyclopedic or professional or something along those lines, and I would respect your opinion.  So please reconsider your edit.  Otherwise, please educate me on proper citing, since I'm relatively new to WP.  Thanks. Leon7 03:01, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Crosses among cucurbits are not impossible, but the story has some of the earmarks of a hoax, so I'd be cautious. Note the breathless tone of the story, as presented in the pulp magazine you provided as a reference. You half expect to hear them say it was fathered by Elvis.
 * Another thing that is conspicuous to anyone who works with cucurbits is the gaps in the story. The quoted "expert" says the cucumber and cantaloupe were planted "close together." The terminology seems unlikely, as this "expert" surely must know that simply being close together would not produce a cross. It's as if the pollen magically jumped from one plant to another. Cucurbit pollen is heavy and sticky and will not be airborne; it needs a pollinator, such as a bee, to carry it from one plant to another. Of course the "expert" could be talking down to a reporter, or the reporter might not be listening very well.
 * The fact that it was picked up by major news sources like CBS (why didn't you link to that in the first place?) reduces the possibility of a hoax, as they supposedly would check the story out. I'm still not entirely convinced though, as the major news agencies have been hoaxed as well. If you want to put it back in (with better sources), I won't remove it, as the onus will be on them, if it proves to be a phony. Pollinator 03:34, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, you are right. I should have been more careful and had linked the story to a better source, like CBS.  I also found out that Regis & Kelly had a taste on their show, which lessens the chance that it's a hoax.  Thanks. Leon7 07:35, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


 * When you deleted it from the cantaloupe article, I had already added a real news citiation. I've restored it there as well, and added a cite for the AP story about Regis & Kelly. -- JHunterJ 12:29, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Posted here by Pollinator 02:48, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Charentais merge
Yeah, charentais should be merged in here. ENeville 19:27, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Merged. -- JHunterJ 12:22, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Australian, New Zealand, South African cantaloupe
I've moved the sentence about the rockmelon to inside the paragraph describing the American Cantaloupe, rather than the European one as what NZ calls rockmelon appears to be the American Cantaloupe eg (I also looked on a Australian online shop and found the same fruit). I'm not sure what the South African spanspek relates to. Google:spanspek came up with two smooth rind versions with green skin, www.museums.org.za says  spanspek has a netted rind and www.alltheweb.com shows a netted rind one (appears they originated in Africa).

In NZ we also have a honeydew melon that has a smooth green skin and green pulp inside - what does this correspond to? [] --AGoon 09:23, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree that which we call canteloupe in Victoria, Australia matches the picture referred to by AGoon.
 * However, it IS NOT universally called "rockmelon" in Australia. In Victoria it has been traditionally referred to as Cantaloupe. In New South Wales it is apparently called rockmelon and national chains of supermarkets adopt one State's terminology for the whole country. Avalon 11:00, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * From the pictures that I can see, it seems to me that the european cantaloupe is NOT the spanspek we have here in South Africa. What we call a spanspek is definately the one with the reticulated skin. I have never seen a spanspek with smooth skin in South Africa. The only variety with smooth skin is the honeydew melon which is referred to by AGoon. In South Africa we call this a "winterspanspek". I will change the article to reflect this. Oom Kosie 23:24, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Varieties
I find this page quite funny as it describes a very common problem with describing Cucumis melo. The subspecies classification is actually only useful to describe wild types/land races. All of the important commercially cultivated melons are a blend of all the subspecies (for disease resistances and specific phenotypes).

As for melon types, commercially this is how they are referred too. After a few revisions I may post these into the Melon Article.

Group 1 ORANGE FLESHED MELONS
These melons are traditionally climacteric (Undergo physiological changes during ripeing in response to ethylene)

Western Shipper = Cantaloupe common in the Western US, Mexico, & Central America. Brazil and Costa Rica grow this type for export to the US and Europe. This is characterized by; dark green immature fruit color, closed full net (no sutures/ribs), and orange fleshed.

Rockmelons = Is exactly the same as the western shipper except for one allele difference. These can be sutured (ribbed) not always though aussies don't seem to care. This is a recessive allele that is very common in Western Shipper germplasm.

Eastern Shipper = Almost genetically identical to the western shipper except for a grey/green immature color. The current most popular commercial hybrid is made from a Eastern Shipper type female and a Western Shipper male (the gray/green immature color is dominant).

Harper type (Italy)= Exactly the same as the Eastern Shipper only slightly smaller in size.

Charentais = The "French" Melon. This is very similar germplasm to the Eastern and Western Shipper types, (There are some places I can be hung for saying that). It is sutured, has little or no net, Gray/green immature and has been higly selected for aromatics and volitiles. It does go quite well with port wine.

Italian type (called in the US)= An Eastern Shipper with sutures.

GROUP 2 THE DIVERSITY (FUN TYPES)
Green Fleshed Honeydew = This is light green immature, non-climacteric, green fleshed,low in volitiles and aromatics, non to slightly netted, and is grown in the US, Mexico, Japan, Australia and Central and South America.

White Fleshed Honey dew = Same as a green Fleshed honeydew but grown in China and Japan.

Orange Fleshed Honeydew = This is a light green immature, non-climacteric, oranged fleshed, non-netted. Deeply oranged fleshed varieties are grown in the US and Mexico while pale oranged fleshed varieties are common in China and Japan.

Yellow Honeydew = this is a light green immature, non-climacteric, white to green fleshed honeydew. These have a dark yellow external appereance and are round and smooth is shape. This is grown mainly in Asian Markets.

Juan Canary/Canaries = This is a very similar to the Yellow Honeydew except for a more teardrop shape and the prescence of wrinkles.

Uzbek Melon = Monster of a melon, these are very large up to 10kgs. White fleshed and a light green immature color. These also have an speckled pattern of yellow and green on its surface. Non netted.

Ananas = This is a cross between a western shipper and a White Fleshed Honeydew. It has a subtle flavor and pale orange flesh with light netting.

Galia = A cross between a Western Shipper and a Yellow Honeydew. These were developed to have a green flesh and small seed cavity. These produce a unique citrus like frangrance.

Piel De Sapo = Spanish for "Skin of the Toad". This is a white fleshed melon with wrinkles and a similair size and shape to the Juan Canary. It's most unique characteristic is the surface of the melon is speckled light and dark green. It kind of looks like a warty toad.

Hami = This is the most popular Chinese melon. It describes a large range of phenotypes but all are very oval. The defining characteristic of this melon is the apple like texture of the flesh. Very light and flavorful. These melons commonly have some slight orange pigment around the cavity.

There are many many more types of melons but this a breif synopsis.

--The.v.tt 20:45, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Dude!! You seem to know A LOT about melons!!;) Are you a botanist?24.83.178.11 03:15, 3 May 2007 (UTC)BeeCier

Umm...
Cateloupes come from either male or female plants. The female cantaloupe is said to be sweeter than the male.

This comes from the end of the article. If this is suggesting that melons are diecious (the only way to have "male" and "female" plants), then it is (nearly) impossible to get fruit from a male flower on a male plant. Cupressus dupreziana represents a rare exception, but otherwise, this would be like claiming that men can bear children. It needs citation in any case, though I expect it is made up.--♦♦♦Vlmastra♦♦♦ (talk) 00:25, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

New picture (cross section) uploaded
New picture (Cantaloupe Melon cross section) uploaded. Is this one any use to the wiki article? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Cantaloupe_Melon_cross_section.png

Sangfroid (talk) 14:40, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Cantaloupe vs. Melon
I wonder if Cantaloupe and Melon should be merged... what do you think? -- Basilicofresco  (msg) 14:52, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

The common name

 * I just removed the taxobox from this article, these should contain one taxon. The reliable sources in this article, and the others I checked, seem to agree that neither are accepted names anyway.
 * Next point. The confusion generated by wedding this article to a common name has spilled over into the 'parent article', and this is evident from the disinformation in this article and the posts above. We are doing the reader a great disservice by doing so. A cultivar, perhaps these ones (who can tell), is called a rockmelon in my local shop. The way to unravel these articles is to find the most reliable sources on the species, the subspecies, the varieties, the groups, and the cultivars, then recast these to them. cygnis insignis 16:52, 30 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Cantaloupe by definition is confusing. The correct term for all of the Cucumis melo species is melon. Cantaloupe usually refers to a dark oranged fleshed type of melon. It is believed that reticulatus is derived from cantalupensis from seeds brought to the new world by the Spanish. Genetically these melons all fall within relatively close relationships (compared to honeydews, hami's, canaries, Armenian cucumbers, piel de sapo's etc. I have updated the subspecies to be variety.


 * The Australian Rockmelon is unique name to that country. These are the genotypically almost identical to the U.S. Western Shipper Cantaloupe. In recent years the traditional open pollinated varieties used in Australia have been replaced by North American derived germplasm. There are many different cultivars grown in Australia that are all called rockmelon.


 * Attempting to list all of the cultivars of melon is a futile exercise. Melon size is dependent upon the environment that it grows in. In order to meet the demands of the market large growers commonly grow many different cultivars through the growing season. There are literally hundreds of variety names registered. The same variety is sold under different names in different countries to protect the pricing of the higher market. Jim McCrieght with the USDA-ARS has a small listing of recent US varieties.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by The.v.tt (talk • contribs) 01:18, 31 March 2009 (UTC)


 * You haven't explained why you put the taxobox back. I'm removing it until you provide a rationale. cygnis insignis 04:33, 31 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Some of the claims above are quite dubious. The name rock melon is also used in New Zealand and Malaysia  Nil Einne (talk) 15:44, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Aren't all melons and squashes Cucurbitaceae?
Coied from the main article: "Cantaloupe (also cantaloup, muskmelon or rockmelon) refers to two varieties of Cucumis melo [1], which is a species in the family Cucurbitaceae, which includes nearlyItalic text all melons and squashes." - my italics and bold.

If you go to squashes and melons, it tells you that they belong to the cucurbitaceae family. It does not cite any other family to which some might belong. --Rui &#39;&#39;Gabriel&#39;&#39; Correia (talk) 18:02, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Aren't all melons and squashes Cucurbitaceae?
Coied from the main article: "Cantaloupe (also cantaloup, muskmelon or rockmelon) refers to two varieties of Cucumis melo [1], which is a species in the family Cucurbitaceae, which includes nearlyItalic text all melons and squashes." - my italics and bold.

If you go to squashes and melons, it tells you that they belong to the cucurbitaceae family. It does not cite any other family to which some might belong. --Rui &#39;&#39;Gabriel&#39;&#39; Correia (talk) 18:02, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Origin Section
Deleted "Cantaloupes were first introduced to North America by Christopher Columbus on his second voyage to the New World in 1494. The W. Atlee Burpee Company developed and introduced the "Netted Gem" in 1881 from varieties then growing in North America." On the grounds that the information has no citations and the relevance of the information to the section is tenuous at best.

For example, provided these can be cited, there is no connection between the sentences. There is no indication of what the "netted gem" is, what W. Atlee Burpee Co. is, how it relates to Christopher Columbus, or why the reader should care.

I also combined the first two sentences into one for readability.

However, this leaves scant information in this section, I propose merging it with the introduction. Cuthalion1 (talk) 21:10, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Can we get a picture of the crate?
It's neither here nor in the inventor's article, I think. Imagine Reason (talk) 01:15, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Merge with Muskmelon
I saw the merge template on Muskmelon and added a corresponding one here. It seems like Cantaloupe and Muskmelon could be merged into a Cucumis melo article, especially since the application of common names seems to have a dialectical variation. Currently Cucumis melo redirects to Muskmelon.--Theodore Kloba (talk) 18:09, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Japanese Fruit Text
The Yen to USD conversion on this picture is off by a decimal place. The current text suggests 2800 yen is $33+ USD. This should be ~$3.50 (as the exact exchange fluxes). I'm not logged in or I'd simply edit this myself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.64.181.118 (talk) 15:49, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Where is reference #1?
Where is reference #1 in the actual article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.112.232.147 (talk) 09:40, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Both instances are in the taxobox. Gzuufy (talk) 19:25, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Health issues section
I'm thinking about creating a health issues section. It should include info about the recent Salmonella outbreak in Kentucky. Possibly other, past outbreaks. It could include references regarding what sanitation techniques may be used on cantaloupes (beyond what is currently mentioned), or how they are ranked by effectiveness. I believe Health issues relating to cantaloupes, being mentioned currently in only 'the fine print' of the article text may not give sufficient warning to readers. Having Health issues as a heading in the Table of contents would help readers to navigate the article, as well as emphasize the importance of washing before slicing. Creation of such a table may involve moving some sentences from the Production and use section to the new section. I'm not making any promises that I will create this section, merely that I'm thinking about it. Gzuufy (talk) 17:33, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Most popular??
The claim that it (U.S. cantaloupe=[U.S.] muskmelon) is the most popular melon in the U. S.(I guess this means largest number or mass consumed rather than being named a favorite in polls) does not seem to be supported by the reference cited. I read through that reference and cannot find support. Kdammers (talk) 04:34, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

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about fruit
How can we make it grow in the western African subregion??? 41.190.30.95 (talk) 19:28, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

European cantaloupe picture
is that really what the European cantaloupe looks like?

I always thought the European cantaloupe was lightly ribbed with green stripes and that it had a grey-green skin? 174.96.203.119 (talk) 05:38, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

South African etymology rearrangement
I've just rearranged the last paragraph about 'spanspek' so its structure is more informative, in the spirit of the truth sandwich: The true attestation of the term now comes first, with the common misconception second, and the reason it's a misconception third. No information was added or subtracted (hopefully). It had previously been the other way around. 198.91.192.44 (talk) 23:29, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

nutrition content
The page links the USDA nutrition database for its nutrition data but on that very linked page there seems to be discrepancy. for vitamin C wikipedia says it's 36.7mg per 100g, on the USDA page it has it as 10.9mg per100mg. What's going on here? 142.162.126.21 (talk) 22:47, 17 March 2024 (UTC)


 * There were numerous nutrients needing content changes, corrected in this edit. The most likely explanation is that the previous data were from years ago (current USDA table is dated Dec 2019), and with fewer samples measured, perhaps with older methods. For reasons unknown, the template does not calculate the niacin DV, having a zero entry from at least a year ago. Zefr (talk) 00:07, 18 March 2024 (UTC)