Talk:Capitol Hill Occupied Protest/Archive 1

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:52, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone.jpg

This page should be kept for public information.

 * This article is being considered for deletion in accordance with Wikipedia's deletion policy.
 * Please share your thoughts on the matter at this article's entry on the Articles for deletion page.
 * Comments posted here will not be considered by the closing administrator in deciding whether or not to delete Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone. NedFausa (talk) 19:49, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Regardless of someone's opinion on the establishment of this anarchist community, it is fascinating to read about and the ability to read about it enables us to have a broader discussion about it. Deleting this page deprives us of the opportunity to have that discussion or even to privately research it.

Keep - Please, keep this entry intact. Dhc301 (talk) 06:55, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Keep - Seconded. Rougetimelord (talk) 09:09, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Delete - I vote in favor of deletion, so long as much of this information is incorporated into a separate page on Seattle's reaction to the George Floyd killing. The stuff about BLM taking over city hall would fit in there, too. As it stands, it's too specific, IMO. JakeDapper (talk) 09:15, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Keep - I third preserving this article, as it not only broadens discussion - but because deletion would be like deleting the main article for the Paris Commune because the article for the Franco-Prussian war has a section about it. PimpSugar (talk) 12:51, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Keep - I fourth keeping this, its pretty objective at the time being, and is a large enough event/locale to warrant a separate page The Guy With Crocs (talk) 13:46, 10 June 2020 (UTC)Crocs

Keep This article is of something of notability that stands separate to the other issues raised or suggestions of what it 'should' be merged into. 121.210.33.50 (talk) 14:41, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Keep AllThatJazz2012 (talk) 16:22, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Keep This is a significant historical event that will be talked about for years to come regardless of how short-lived it may be. Jade Phoenix Pence (talk) 17:38, 10 June 2020 (UTC)Jade Phoenix Pence

Keep - This is notable enough to have gained traction, I guess LenaAvrelia (talk) 19:38, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Keep - This is an example of a micronation within the United States. This could be compared to the Conch Republic, and be added to the list of micronations. --Lipardi (talk) 20:27, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Keep - this is a historic event and can be updated accordingly. Lennon (talk) 22:46, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Delete - Not a legitimate movement, no legitimate credible sources. No history in the making. --Skarz (talk) 23:29, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Rebuttal - It is a legitimate movement. There have been several legitimate sources. The President has called it historical himself and is threating to "take care of the situation". TheMemeMonarch (talk) 04:03, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 June 2020
Add 🤘֍Ȼ╠╣Ḻ֎🤘 (talk) 18:11, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ Thanks for your contribution. NedFausa (talk) 18:18, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Category
This article, if kept, will need to be added to the Category:Capitol Hill, Seattle. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.252.99.67 (talk) 12:38, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ gobonobo  + c 12:42, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 June 2020
Please add to the top of article: (Use American English date=June 2020) (Use mdy dates date=June 2020) This article using American spelling and clearly is American topic. 182.1.231.223 (talk) 13:36, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅—For future reference, please use  tags or the tl template to refer to templates. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) please always ping! 13:45, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 June 2020
extortion of shop owners 50.206.88.67 (talk) 00:36, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

❌ No specific request made. XOR&#39;easter (talk) 00:55, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 June 2020
Fix the spelling of "protesters" under the demands section of internal governance. 82.0.177.124 (talk) 21:09, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * ❌ - I can't see a spelling error here past differences between American and British English? Ed6767  talk!  21:12, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 June 2020
--2601:400:6:33E0:9961:CB47:6D55:14A6 (talk) 01:37, 11 June 2020 (UTC)--2601:400:6:33E0:9961:CB47:6D55:14A6 (talk) 01:37, 11 June 2020 (UTC) the fact that they covered up the death of a child should be enough. there is a dead kid there in one of dumpsters right now. are you going to do something about it? the cops ran away wtf? holly white knows who did what. 2601:400:6:33E0:9961:CB47:6D55:14A6 (talk) 01:37, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Request declined. Please re-open the request with the exact wording you wish to add, and, most importantly, reliable sources backing up your desired wording. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) please always ping! 01:41, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 June 2020
This posting was from a domestic terrorist organization and should not be considered as factual information. Oxlakston (talk) 04:49, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * This is not a specific request. Please say exactly what you want changed. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) please always ping! 04:51, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 June 2020
Add climate information of the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone. Amcandio10 (talk) 17:31, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. --Equivamp - talk 17:34, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 June 2020
Modify currency: USD for BTC, or at least add BTC.

Bitcoin is a censorship-resistant, apolitical, decentralized and sovereign form of ditital and absolutely scarce form of money PsychedelicSpartan117 (talk) 06:11, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: As above. Jack Frost (talk) 09:00, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 June 2020
I live in Seattle and I can tell you this page is incorrect on many points. I request sources to each piece of information. Double check your facts. 2600:100F:B059:85EF:DB3:A24E:3ACF:1B6A (talk) 06:35, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. If you have any specific changes or corrections, then please list them (with sources). Jack Frost (talk) 09:02, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Include Trump's Latest Tweets in the "Reactions" Section
Today, President Donald Trump made two statements on his twitter account. "Radical Left Governor @JayInslee and the Mayor of Seattle are being taunted and played at a level that our great Country has never seen before. Take back your city NOW. If you don’t do it, I will. This is not a game. These ugly Anarchists must be stooped IMMEDIATELY. MOVE FAST!" , read one, and "Domestic Terrorists have taken over Seattle, run by Radical Left Democrats, of course. LAW & ORDER!" read the other. I am requesting the addition of;

On June 10th, 2019, President Donald Trump claimed that "Domestic Terrorists have taken over Seattle" and called upon Mayor Durkan to "Take back your city NOW." adding that "If you don’t do it, I will. This is not a game. These ugly Anarchists must be stooped IMMEDIATELY. MOVE FAST!"

EnviousDemon (talk) 04:39, 11 June 2020 (UTC)


 * I'm very happy to add these. Can you please provide a reliable, secondary source though? Please see WP:RS. I'd need one that says these are about the CHAZ. I know, it might seem like WP:COMMONSENSE, but it's important that everything on Wikipedia be WP:Verifiable. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) please always ping! 04:50, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Here is a source: https://nypost.com/2020/06/11/trump-demands-seattle-officials-take-back-cop-free-protest-zone/ TheMemeMonarch (talk) 04:53, 11 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Sorry about that. Still new to wikipedia and these are my first edits in a while. Does this work? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/11/us/capitol-hill-autonomous-zone-seattle-trump.html EnviousDemon (talk) 04:56, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Great sources, thank you! ✅ Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) please always ping! 05:05, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on June 12, 2020
The "poster" declaring "POLICE NOT WELCOME" is a sticker. Mouthpity (talk) 16:22, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ Agreed. I changed the caption to sticker. NedFausa (talk) 16:58, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 June 2020
Not sure if there is an official website, but you may considering including some reference to https://capitolhillautonomous.zone/ 50.54.137.99 (talk) 13:44, 12 June 2020 (UTC)


 * ✅ Added to External Llnks. NedFausa (talk) 18:51, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Raz Simone
Lots of video circulating online of someone named Raz Simone claiming to be the leader / authority figure of the CHAZ. Isn't this considered noteworthy? --Skarz (talk) 01:11, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I saw an admin oversighted you adding that. I've seen a few quotes by Simone in local news, but where is he claiming to be the leader, and has a reliable source republished that? He's definitely heavily involved, I agree. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) please always ping! 01:15, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * It was caught on video https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1270852156086599680 --Skarz (talk) 01:28, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * One source refers to him as just the voice of the protesters, not a leader.  Is this Raz Simone?  gobonobo  + c 01:16, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes it's the same guy. KIRO calls him a "Seattle musician", and it's easy to see from Simone's Facebook that it's him. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) please always ping! 01:22, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * The quote is older than the live video where he declares himself as the police of the CHAZ and makes verbal assaults against attendees. --Skarz (talk) 01:23, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * OK, but until a reliable source reports on the live video, we should not do so. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) please always ping! 01:30, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 June 2020
The following statement is false "hip hop artist Raz Simone acts as "co-leader and enforcer" of the Zone" Raz Simone has used this space to promote his own music and image while attacking his critics and actual organizers. He is not even close to the enforcer there. The space is for the people and the point of the space is to have no police there. Please edit him out of this. It is an insult to have him in the same space as an actual organizer like Nikkita Oliver. Raz does not represent the Autonomous Zone at all. Kgebresuss (talk) 18:18, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:28, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

It looks like this issue was identified in a lower request and addressed by NedFausa Msherby (talk) 22:43, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 June 2020
Under reactions is a statement made by Assistant Police Chief Deanna Nollette saying that the site had armed individuals and were extorting people. However, they have walked back these statements as shown below after a bunch of news and media incorrectly repeated those facts:

The Seattle Police Department walked back its claim, widely repeated in the news media, that denizens of the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone are extorting businesses.

The paragraph should be trimmed of the Assistant Police Chief's statement and mention that they had walked back these claims should be included. DTM9025 (talk) 00:48, 12 June 2020 (UTC) DTM9025 (talk) 00:48, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ That passage has been shortened and brought up to date. XOR&#39;easter (talk) 01:07, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 June 2020
They changed the name to CHOP or Capital Hill Occupation Protest. 2001:569:7465:D00:489C:F443:6588:408C (talk) 23:00, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * ❌. Reliable source, please. Also, keep WP:COMMONNAME in mind. El_C 23:07, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 June 2020
Add details relating to Free Derry Corner when showing the picture stating "Now Entering Free Cap Hill" 2600:1005:B101:4428:640D:603B:362C:3942 (talk) 23:04, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * ❌. Reliable source, please. El_C 23:06, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

dead link
The link https://industrialworker.org/the-birth-of-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/ isn't working for me. I've tagged it as a dead link in the article, but it's been removed. I'm not going to re-add, since the pace of the article is pretty fast right now and I don't want to disrupt that. Stuartyeates (talk) 03:37, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Replaced with https://web.archive.org/web/20200609224556/https://industrialworker.org/the-birth-of-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/ that actually works. Stuartyeates (talk) 03:54, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
 * It looks like the article will be re-posted later today: https://twitter.com/iww/status/1270700374505250818 --Boklm (talk) 12:56, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Sohu
Why are we relying on a Chinese source for so much of this article? Doesn't seem appropriate - surely there must be sources closer to Seattle? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Coretteket (talk • contribs) 15:30, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
 * It's because this is not a legitimate movement, it's largely seen as a joke, hence why no one is covering it. --Skarz (talk) 23:28, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 June 2020
There is a statement that the leader of CHAZ "warlord" 'Raz Simone' in the description box of the area. This is incorrect and should be removed Bretspath (talk) 11:51, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. El_C 11:55, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Crime control
Is there any plan on how to deal with crime in CHAZ? Rapes, murders, or just plain theft or robbery ... How will that be handled without police? -- Alexey Topol (talk) 15:59, 13 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Raz Simone has apparently taken up policing of the area which has not gone well —  Richard  BB  16:16, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
 * WP:NOTFORUM. — Bilorv (  Black Lives Matter  ) 16:30, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 June 2020
Change article title to Capitol Hill Organized Protest 97.113.46.89 (talk) 09:33, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Why? TheImaCow (talk) 10:24, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Website
Please add this as the wesite: https://caphillauto.zone/ ... it's official (as official as it can be from an autonomous zone)
 * ✅ Added to External Llnks. NedFausa (talk) 18:52, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

User:SounderBruce's tags
Justify your tags please. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) please always ping! 05:02, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * The tags are self-explanatory. The article is not neutral and does not discuss anything beyond what the pro-CHAZ side seeks. The choice of sources sis also poor, with RealClearPolitics, Heavy, Going Down, and tweets from random people among other unreliable sources. No matter the outcome of the deletion discussion, this article is in extremely poor shape.  Sounder Bruce  05:08, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Hmmm...tweets from random people? Like Donald Trump and Ted Cruz? Heavy is allowed per WP:RSP. I will remove RCP and GD. What would you like to see added? And certainly, that AfD is going nowhere except into the archive. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) please always ping! 05:13, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I heavily agree with . The article's topic have been proven notable and not a violation of WP:TOOSOON (plus many of the arguments against it are inaccurate claims that WP:RSP approved sources are not credible). The AfD dispute should be resolved later today or tomorrow. Mt.FijiBoiz (talk) 18:34, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * can you please point out areas of the article that appear impartially in-favor of the CHAZ so other editors can fix this. BTW, I see multiple parts of the article criticizing the CHAZ, with some opinions coming from the Seattle PD, President Donald Trump, and Senator Ted Cruz. Mt.FijiBoiz (talk) 18:34, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree with Psiĥedelisto and Mt.FijiBoiz. SounderBruce's only contributions to the article have been nominating it for deletion, removing references, and adding cleanup tags. gobonobo  + c 11:01, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Raz Simone claim is false, proven by its citation
As written in the "Internal governance" section of the page: "According to a June 10 article by City Journal, hip hop artist Raz Simone acts as "co-leader and enforcer" of the Zone". The article cited is this one, which does not contain the quote "co-leader and enforcer" at all. At most, it suggests that Raz has committed violent acts in the area, and some are afraid that he might attempt to take control -- Not that he has any authority as recognized by other members, and especially not that he is a co-leader.

The citation does not back up the written sentence, and it contains a false quote, implying it came from the citation, which it does not. Could this part of the article be removed, and later rewritten?

Cole128 (talk) 20:25, 11 June 2020 (UTC)


 * ✅ I removed the erroneous content from that section. Thank you for pointing it out. NedFausa (talk) 20:45, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

"Inslee stated that he was unaware of the Zone"
I don't think this statement belongs in the article. The source is dubiously reliable &mdash; we need something better than a partisan opinion piece that's basically a blog post (regardless of what chunk of the political spectrum it hails from). Moreover, in the actual video, Inslee is asked not just about the existence of the CHAZ, but that "the protesters are not allowing people to come and go freely", to which he replies, "Well, that's news to me". Taking this as ignorance of the Zone existing stretches credulity. XOR&#39;easter (talk) 02:23, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree and have removed the disputed content. It misrepresented what the governor said. NedFausa (talk) 02:45, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks! XOR&#39;easter (talk) 02:51, 12 June 2020 (UTC)