Talk:Capoeira toques

Idalina
138.163.160.43, I think I see what you're trying to get at with your changes to the Idalina notation, but currently you have 13 characters in the first measure and 15 in the second. As each character other than the "|" is supposed to represent one eighth note, there should only be 8 characters before the "|" and 8 after. To represent the slur you're talking about just put "v-" which means hit an open note and then hammer the dobrão on the next note. Focomoso 03:36, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Page Creation
The idea here is to start a list of Capoeira toques de berimbau and the games associated with them if any (and eventually notation and audio samples I hope). This should be nowhere as long as the list of Capoeira songs. From my limited experience, it seems that different organizations play the different toques differently and I hope this diversity is reflected here. Please expand on my game descriptions and add any toques I’ve missed (I’ve included only ones I have first hand experience with). --Coalhada


 * I just wanted to say that I respect your attempt to do this, but I think this is not really the best approach because toques just vary so much from school to school. I think rather than trying to find an exhaustive list of toques, which can never be universal, and in the end is just nomenclature, it would be more informative to users to keep this page focused on the role of toques in the capoeira game, and provide some links to what the extremely well-known toques sound like.  I refer here to only two toques, Angola and São Bento Grande, which are the only two toques I have come across that are pretty consistent from school to school in terms of sounds.  Even in these two toques the type of game played varies so much though.


 * Siri de Mangue; Muiraquitã Capoeira; Toronto, Ontario, Canada


 * 'Not really the best approach' to what end? Because a list of toques cannot be exhaustive doesn't mean we shouldn't try to come up with as many as possible. But perhaps we should split this up into Capoeira games and Toques de berimbau, the latter focusing on the music.


 * While there is huge variety in many of the toques, I'd say there is relative consistency in the ones invented by Bimba (I've only heard one iuna for example). But I'd hope that this variety would be expressed here.


 * Focomoso 19:33, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Another problem is of course that capoeira tocques do not remain the same, the evolve like language does. Will you also list tocques that are no longer used, but have been? In 50 years there will be an infinite number of tocques and variations on this list. It will at least need some index/explanation of the "families". Every school has it's own variations, but every school has a selection of types of tocques, since naturally they are needed for a functioning roda practice/culture.


 * tp


 * Everything changes. Language changes. Still, we attempt to define it as best we can. If you know some extinct toques, please add them. When this article has been up long enough that some of the current toques pass out of use, we can label them as archaic (and yes, indexing will be needed). Until then, I'm happy to focus on what are generally used today. Focomoso 03:14, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Miudinho
The toque for Miudinho isn't quite right. it should be o xx o x o xx o but I don't know how to make the image. You can hear this at this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTJotlscfME LoboDeOuro (talk) 07:43, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

The link at the bottom for Miudinho does not work. http://www.capoeirapraha.cz/video.htm

Davelapo555 16:29, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Some small fixes
I reorganized the toques to differentiate traditional (in that they have been anonymously composed and around for a long time) and those that are more recent developments with known composers. I also added some variations in the angola toque that are used in viola improvisations and deleted the Idalina toque because it was notated very ambiguously. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.48.91.218 (talk) 19:31, August 27, 2007 (UTC)

"Standard Notation"
I replaced the ascii text with standard musical notation as per requests. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmckaskle (talk • contribs) 18:50, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I appreciate the attempt here, but this is not standard musical notation. Do you have a source that uses a half note for an open sound and a quarter note for a closed sound? The 'x' for the un-pitched sound is used often, but any musician looking this notation can tell you that it is not standard. Also, why remove the ascii from the toques you don't have notation for? Focomoso (talk) 06:35, 22 April 2008 (UTC)


 * You are correct that is not standard notation in the strict sense. The notation is treated more as percussion notation, which has much more flexibility in usage. The "x" is common in both percussion notation and standard music notation. Classical guitar notation, for example, indicated percussive strikes on the strings or body of the guitar with that notation. That usage is very definitely standard. The timeline underneath is also standard percussion notation, but typically for hand percussion. As I mentioned in the Talk section of the capoeira music article, there is no standard for Berimbau notation. Use of the half note to indicate an open note represents the mouth of the berimbau being open and unobstructed, I removed the ascii versions of each toque and replaced them with the "standard notation" version but it appears the user named "mostly harmless" deleted them January 15th 2008 for an unkown reason without reverting the toques ascii format or discussion on the topic.Jmckaskle (talk) 20:13, 26 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I refer any one interested to the following Wikipedia articles: Musical notation, Percussion notation, Time unit box system. 168.38.76.70 (talk) 16:08, 27 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Toque image files have been reinstatedJmckaskle (talk) 00:32, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Added Idalina
Added Idalina toque Jmckaskle 21:43, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Article Deletion
This article was nominated for deletion here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Capoeira_toques

The revisions that kept the article from deletion were the removal of the toques below the notation key and the addition of some sources. I feel that merely stating the toques exist does not go far in understanding them. Just as in the article on Integration in calculus shows derivation of the different concepts, how to integrate using all the different methods of integration, etc. Sources are definitely import and I'll try to hunt them down. If anyone feels the need to remove the toque transcriptions, then I suggest including them in Talk so wikipedia users may still have a reference available to them. Jmckaskle (talk) 18:27, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Audio examples
I'd love to record some examples of some of these toques, as I think it would help improve the article a lot, but I have no experience adding media to wikipedia. Is there anyone out there who could point me in the right direction? Richard Jackson (talk) 11:47, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

4th & 5th Angola toques
As far as I can see there is a mistake in the 5th Angola variation since it has 9 eighths in the first bar. I don't know what should be written there, so I can't fix it myself... B2NVB2 (talk) 20:28, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Also, the 4th toque has only 7 eighths B2NVB2 (talk) 13:37, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

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