Talk:Capp Street Project

Capp Street Project vs. 500 Capp Street Foundation
I believe that Capp Street Project and the 500 Capp Street Foundation are separate entities.

Capp Street Project is a residency program that was originally housed in the David Ireland designed house at 65 Capp Street and is still run at the California College of the Arts Wattis Institute for Contemporary Arts.

"500 Capp Street Foundation" restored David Ireland's former home and has objects and ephemera of Ireland's life on view to the public talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:53, 3 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Circa73 - OK it is very unclear how two non-profits are operating in the same space. I was looking online at various articles and their websites and I thought they were merged? As far as I can tell Capp Street Project is no longer in existence, their website is defunct. And 500 Capp Street Foundation said in articles they will be hosting artist residencies. Can you find anything that clarifies the confusion? Thanks, Jooojay (talk) 01:03, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
 * This article mentioned 500 Capp Street Foundation purchasing the home in 2009 but it does not say from whom. Jooojay (talk) 01:09, 4 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Jooojay - So there are actually two separate properties on Capp Street affiliated with David Ireland: 65 Capp Street, which Ireland created ( see this article about that space and this article for a history of the Capp Street Project residency program that was housed there) and 500 Capp Street, which was Ireland's home and studio (see this article)


 * According to the Wattis Institute the residency project (see this page )". . . founded by Ann Hatch in 1983, Capp Street Project became part of the Wattis in 1998." Circa73 (talk) 00:31, 5 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Circa73, right, but on that same webpage it refers to Capp Street Project at Wattis Inst. as an archive now and the visual arts residency "Capp Street Artists (1984–2013)" with an end date. My question is has Capp Street Project closed OR alternatively was Capp Street Project sold in 2009 to the 500 Capp Street Foundation? Are they at all affiliated, if so how? Maybe this article should be about the house as a venue and include both as separate Capp Street Project and 500 Capp Street Foundation as separate entities? I will removed the confusing text from the wiki article until this is resolved. Jooojay (talk) 00:47, 5 February 2016 (UTC)


 * I just found this link, it appears the two non profits were merged (or it was renamed) at some point. I will try to read more about it and add citations. Jooojay (talk) 00:52, 5 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Jooojay According to this page the Wattis Institute is still running the Capp Street Project residency, and currently (Dec 8, 2015-Feb 10, 2016)has an exhibit up in which the artist "presents new work as the result of her three-month stay in San Francisco as 2015 Capp Street resident." Circa73 (talk) 21:51, 9 February 2016 (UTC)


 * They are related programs, we know that 500 Capp Street is the place that is funding and owns the house. We know that Capp Street Project is the term for the artist residency. We know that Ann Hatch is a director of both. Jooojay (talk) 01:16, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

''"At the heart of the David Ireland House is the 500 Capp Street Foundation’s artist residency program, which extends Ireland’s influence by inviting other artists to create work in direct response to the house, its contents, and permanent archive. As a teacher and mentor, Ireland actively curated his 500 Capp Street home and opened it to fellow artists from all disciplines, including visual artists, writers, musicians, and artists working in performance-based platforms, making the house—and all that creatively and socially transpired within it—a hub of the artistic community. Launching in 2017, a planned artist residency program will perpetuate that tradition with an initial focus on opportunities for Bay Area artists, offering a stipend to offset San Francisco housing costs. The foundation intends to grow the program to eventually encompass an international community of artists."

In 2008, San Francisco art collector and patron Carlie Wilmans, granddaughter of late Bay Area philanthropist Phyllis C. Wattis, purchased the building. Soon after she established the 500 Capp Street Foundation, appointing prominent local art patron Ann Hatch and Yale University Art Gallery Director Jock Reynolds—both longtime friends and associates of Ireland—as fellow founding trustees in oversight of the house as a venue for the preservation and study of the artist’s work. Ireland passed away in 2009 at the age of 78."'' from http://500cappstreet.org/about-3/mission-history/ Jooojay (talk) 05:38, 10 February 2016 (UTC)


 * And my position is: they are not related programs. Following is a quote from a 2009 ArtForum article which clearly differentiates the two separate Capp Street properties, and their differing reasons for importance: 500 Capp as Ireland's home and studio, and 65 Capp as the original venue for Ann Hatch's Capp Street Project residency program
 * "In 1975, Ireland bought a ramshackle Victorian house at 500 Capp Street in San Francisco. As he slowly transformed its interior, it became known in the art world as the site and source of much of his work of the 1980s and ’90s. In 1979, Ireland bought a second Mission District house at 65 Capp Street and transformed it structurally inside and out, winning him acclaim as a minimalist architect. Art patron Ann Hatch bought the house three years later to serve as home base for a nonprofit artist’s residency she named the Capp Street Project." from Ireland (1930–2009) ArtForum. ArtForum International Magazine. Retrieved 10 February 2016.Circa73 (talk) 19:47, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Circa73 I found this http://www.sfchronicle.com/style/article/Carlie-Wilmans-long-journey-to-500-Capp-Street-6759062.php - you are right about 65 Capp Street being a residency and it was another former home of David Ireland. However in 8/12/2014 this property sold again. 65 Capp Street is no longer the location for "Capp Street Project" as of 1997, it is the current home of "Lost Church". http://www.thelostchurch.com/page4.html Jooojay (talk) 20:04, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Article name
Since the 500 Capp Street Foundation is the more current version of Capp Street Project, should we change the name of the wikipedia article? Jooojay (talk) 02:15, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Jooojay - Capp Street Project still exists as a residency program of the Wattis Institute. The 500 Capp Street Foundation is not a more current version of Capp Street Project. The name of this Wikipedia article should not be changed.


 * Perhaps the information about the 500 Capp Street Foundation should be incorporated into the David Ireland article? Or...would it warrant it's own, new, page? Circa73 (talk) 22:00, 9 February 2016 (UTC)


 * I am not going to split hairs with you Circa73 or add words in caps, etc to a talk page is not needed. We obviously disagree and if you are unable to be civil and discuss it with me on the talk page so I am done with this issue. The actual house should be the wikipedia article, not simply the residency or the funding. The funding and programs around the house are not deserving of their own wikipedia pages by any means. Also when you delete citations in the future, please be aware that you may effect other parts of the article. Best of luck editing here. Jooojay (talk) 01:12, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Jooojay - I'm sorry if I offended you. Perhaps my caps usage were a bit vehement, and I apologize. I appreciate the research you've done here, it has helped me clarify the information for myself, and find sources to back that up. The Capp Street Project residency programing and the 500 Capp Street House probably each deserve their own page. You seem to feel strongly about the House, perhaps you could create that article?Circa73 (talk) 01:34, 10 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Circa73 Thank you for your apology. Normally in a situation where we continue to disagree beyond our initial discussion, we would discuss it here on the talk page before we go forward and edit the article. But this link Dispute resolution also has the formal workflow on dispute beyond talk page. I edit often, I am not feeling vested in this issue to care that much more. I would be interested in hearing what others think on the topic (in terms of the main article title). Jooojay (talk) 02:05, 10 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Jooojay Sounds good, I'm interest in hearing too. Circa73 (talk) 16:55, 10 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Circa73 These issues are now posted to Third_opinion. Jooojay (talk) 17:09, 10 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Thank you DocTree! Jooojay (talk) 21:18, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much for your input DocTree!Circa73 (talk) 15:21, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

List of artists
Hi again Jooojay. Looks like we're both working on the list of artists, so I wanted to check in with you. For formatting, does "Last name, First name" or "First name Last name" seem better? Not sure if there are set rules for lists...do you know?Circa73 (talk) 23:31, 15 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi Circa73, From my experience on Wikipedia, we don't do surnames first. I have been collaboratively editing lists in which we all needed to change this but I don't know off the top of my head the rule. Have you checked the Manual of Style for any list rules? That is where I would start. Jooojay (talk) 23:39, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the resource reference Jooojay. Consistency seems to be the main rule for lists, didn't see anything in particular about name order...but based on your "on Wikipedia, we don't do surnames first" experience, let's make that our rule: "First name Last name" for list entries. I'll edit the ones I entered in the opposite orderCirca73 (talk) 20:03, 17 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Sounds good to me Circa73! I am sure somewhere on here there is a rule, since Wikipedia has no shortage of rules ;) but could take forever to find it. Jooojay (talk) 20:11, 17 February 2016 (UTC)