Talk:Carandiru massacre

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Wbarnett18. Peer reviewers: Aaldridge97, Phong20.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 16:45, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Missing Points/Part of The Article
The main issue I see with this article is that while it does give all the facts, the cause, the aftermath and the court case, it does not give a full picture. I want to know exactly why the massacre happened, what events or tensions may have led to it, what people’s reactions to it were, and its historical impact. I also want to expand on the 'pop culture' section, and go beyond just a bullet point list of references to the massacre in pop culture, but specifically what they are and how they reflect people's reactions to the massacre. I also want to give some background on Brazil's justice system, in a neutral setting of course, including more on the ongoing case of the massacre.

Here are a list of sources I plan to use:

Muggah, Robert, and Ilona Szabó De Carvalho. "Opinion | Brazil's Deadly Prison System." The New York Times. January 04, 2017. Accessed February 19, 2018. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/04/opinion/brazils-deadly-prison-system.html.

"Police sentenced over Brazil Carandiru jail massacre." BBC News. April 03, 2014. Accessed March 02, 2018. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-26866609.

"Brazil jail massacre: Vigil marks Carandiru anniversary." BBC News. October 03, 2012. Accessed March 02, 2018. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-19806711.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-26235791

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-38487722

Contributors. "Chaos A.D." Wikipedia. March 01, 2018. Accessed March 02, 2018. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_A.D.

Contributors, Wikipedia. "Caetano Veloso." Wikipedia. February 28, 2018. Accessed March 02, 2018. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caetano_Veloso.

False claim removed
Due to the potentially of misleading, I removed the claim that Prisonbreak Sona prison was inspired on the accounts of Carandirú Prison. The claim was not supported nor cites references to verify its trustfulness. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Officer Boscorelli (talk • contribs) 17:18, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Only the criminals' POV?
The article does not mention that the criminals doing the riot actually had guns. Funnily the article mentions that none of the policemen died in the operation, as if it was any bad, as if they were supposed to die to be fair or something. Or as if the policemen were supposed to sacrifice their own life in order to "human-rights correctly" control such a riot, rather than acting with whatever strenght they think is needed to protect their own lives - and the society - againts those who probably are there by being murderers, among other things. I do not quite know the numbers, but there were about a hundred of policemen against maybe thousands of prisoners rioting. At the very beggining, they threw a gas tank which exploded harming at least the higher officer commanding the policemen, which had to be taken to a hospital. I'll search for more content on the other side to put here. The book mentioned apparently is written solely on accounts of prisoners, whom presumable would draw a picture of evil policemen doing a sadistic massacre. --Extremophile 04:38, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I understand your concern about the NPOV but I think you may have misunderstood the comment about the lack of police deaths. I interpret this comment to suggest that the event was a massacre and that the police did not kill out of self-defence but for some other reason (revenge, anger, lack of proper training...?). Thanks, Hu Gadarn 17:50, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the article, as it currently stands, gives a fairly balanced look at the situation. Thoughts? Should we remove the POV dispute tag? Captainktainer * Talk 09:06, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. Let's remove the POV dispute tag. JGKoblenz 17:36, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Extremophile accomplished a perfect overview of the situation. I vote with him. --Officer Boscorelli (talk) 17:22, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Police Convictions
just got this from the news section


 * Twenty-three Brazilian police officers are sentenced to 156 years in jail each for their involvement in the 1992 Carandiru prison massacre. (BBC)

Looks like it ought to be in the article EdwardLane (talk) 16:25, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for finding this; I expanded the article with a short sentence about the convictions. To be expanded, hopefully. jonkerz ♠talk 17:20, 24 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Further BBc article says next tranche of convictions - 25 policemen each jailed for 624 years. EdwardLane (talk) 14:42, 3 August 2013 (UTC)


 * And yet further - there are now acquittals for the police described in this bbc article, also a presumably related murder EdwardLane (talk) 07:21, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Removal of infoboxes summarily without edit summaries
I was the one who requested the boxes (check the edit history), and I've now given two valid edit summaries, which User:Cassianto failed to do. now User:Cassianto is just editwarring.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 08:31, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
 * The box is a WP:DISINFOBOX. Please justify why you feel one is needed on an article which is so small. While you do that, I'll restore the article back to its most stable state, as per WP:BRD.   Cassianto Talk   08:38, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
 * WP:DISINFOBOX is an essay, not a guideline. I think an article could consist of an infobox and a single sentence. Prburley (talk) 02:21, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
 * What a stupid opinion. An IP keeps reverting without discussing anyway, so I can't be bothered. Do as you please.  Cassianto Talk   08:15, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Missing chain of events
A missing part in the article is the missing chain of events; how a simple game of football and a resulting fight resulted in the death of 111 people. Furthermore, the part 'History' does not tell that the notorious ROTA brigade was responsible for the killings which is an important detail in my opinion since they are known for their brutality. Lastly; in the article it is described that the prison guards did little effort to negotiate with the prisoners. This is not entirely correct. When the military police arrived, who were at the time of the revolt in charge, the director was physically hold back to negotiate with the prisoners. I cannot find any source that tells us that the guards did nothing, so unless I can find a source the sentence will be removed.Gerard de Molenaar (talk) 10:23, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

-> I used the Amnesty International source twice due to the fact that there are no other open sources (in English) nor investigations made public about the events of the uprising.

Comments
Based on the other comments on the talk page, I think your approach is structurally sound. Additionally, I hope you can clear up the article for those who also think it has problems in the talk session. Good luck with your research! Aaldridge97 (talk) 00:38, 3 March 2018 (UTC) Andrew

New Comments:

Going forward, I would see if you could add more pictures if you can, you have a lot of text, and I feel like adding in some visuals would be beneficial. Also, I would go back and pay close attention to grammatical things, to make sure everything flows. I think this is looking like a much better page, especially in detail — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aaldridge97 (talk • contribs) 19:29, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Article update
Using more recent Brazilian sources, tried to improve the article's coherency and actually go into some level of detail into the incursion itself. Also mentioned what the sources were in the cases where there were discrepancies or sources were 'suboptimal'. Note that, as it is a very polarizing subject with lacking evidence, credible sources are hard to come by and discrepancies are very common. Even so, I think it's an improvement as it adds details such as the units involved, HIV which was a huge deal at the time and Ubiratan's election. I'm not the most experienced editor so please let me know if I messed up something big. Jesterr35 (talk) 06:42, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Was this a "genocidal massacre?"
Why is the Carandiru massacre included in this category? Jarble (talk) 16:44, 2 September 2023 (UTC)